Anyone been shopping yet?

Brunneria said:

It has been a while since I set foot in a gym, but the 3 gyms I have used over the years would be awkward in the covid era.

Changing rooms, gym equipment, ventilation and layout were all unsuitable and would require major alterations.
And I fondly remember the over-diluted cleaning fluid that we were all supposed to use on the machines, to wipe off our sweat. I think I may have been the only member to ever use the cleaning stuff, and when I did I had to trek to the ladies loos for toilet paper to use as a wipe. lol. The gym staff were (apparently) told not to refill the paper wipe dispensers in the gym itself, because then people used them, and that was too expensive.
No one (including me) ever wiped the handles of the equipment.

Exercise classes must be disease breeding grounds, with all that panting and sweating and jumping about.

I suspect that a great many gyms will be going out of business in the near future, especially since many people will have discovered that they can keep fit perfectly well from home, without paying the exorbitant monthly fees.

Click to expand...

Depends on the gym, pubs, hairdressers and the like can not be much better and I suspect your experience of gyms may have been pre-covid they like many other places have adapted to changed circumstances with social distancing and hand sanitizer stations and many of them as I have said have plenty of space to do so.

"
Because COVID-19 is a respiratory disease, the practices aimed at preventing the virus’ transmission focus on mucus and droplets expelled by coughing or sneezing.
But can the virus be spread through other bodily fluids?
The short answer, according to a Q&A from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, is that there’s not enough data to know for sure.

From the evidence at hand, though, medical experts have made these observations about the virus officially called severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2:
Blood, feces: SARS-CoV-2 RNA has been detected, but it’s not known yet whether the virus in such specimens is infectious.

Vomit, urine, breast milk, semen: It’s not known yet whether such fluids from an infected person can contain viable, infectious SARS-CoV-2, the CDC said.

Tears: An alert from the American Academy of Ophthalmology cited the case of the virus being found in the “ocular secretions” of one COVID-19 patient who also had conjunctivitis (pink eye), an inflammation of the eyeball and eyelid. It has not been found in the tears of other COVID-19 patients.

Sweat: There’s no evidence that the virus can be spread by perspiration — though an infectious-diseases expert told a Singapore publication that sweat contaminated by the “gunk on a person’s nose, or if the person coughs” could transfer the virus to another person."

https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/03/20/can-coronavirus-be-spread-through-sweat-tears-urine/

Fairygodmother said:

We’ve taken Boris’s imprecations to go and have a drink at a bar and get together with a (?) number of people with a generous pinch of salt, preferring to watch what’s happening in other places and to listen to our neighbour, Whitty and Valance.
I confess I’m just a little annoyed by people who tell us we’re being led by fear, or that our mental health is more important than stemming COVID cases: if we don’t retain a body and brain to live in, we don’t have a mental state to keep healthy.

Click to expand...

Totally agree.

Brunneria said:

Changing rooms, gym equipment, ventilation and layout were all unsuitable

Click to expand...

For me, what I have learned about air conditioning has convinced me not to go back to my gym unless they install all new air con. and central heating that brings in fresh air from the outside and expels the old. (Manytypes of air con. re-circulate stale air, a recipe for also circulating Covid.) I have read that one gym chain has indeed put in all new and is indignant at not being allowed to re-open after all that expense. Attending my budget gym in the morning I often suffered from the smell of stale sweat from the night before, and also from strong currents of cold air playing on certain machines. I have been warned!

In a Chinese restaurant all the diners in the path taken by the air con. from one infected person became ill, while the other diners out of range did not. I don't know how to assess the air con. in restaurants etc. As I am very risk averse, I think I'll be staying outdoors / at home for the foreseeable future.

Pipp said:

change of clothes and complete decontamination after being in shop?

Click to expand...

As I don't shop every day, I keep a complete shopping outfit hung up in quarantine, including special handbag, lipsalve, medic alert card, hat, gloves, scarf etc. I also either quarantine the items I've bought or rinse under the cold tap. Is this effective or superfluous? I just don't know. I have a diabetic friend who does the same thing with his work clothes as soon as he gets in each day.

Alexandra100 said:

For me, what I have learned about air conditioning has convinced me not to go back to my gym unless they install all new air con. and central heating that brings in fresh air from the outside and expels the old. (Manytypes of air con. re-circulate stale air, a recipe for also circulating Covid.) I have read that one gym chain has indeed put in all new and is indignant at not being allowed to re-open after all that expense. Attending my budget gym in the morning I often suffered from the smell of stale sweat from the night before, and also from strong currents of cold air playing on certain machines. I have been warned!

In a Chinese restaurant all the diners in the path taken by the air con. from one infected person became ill, while the other diners out of range did not. I don't know how to assess the air con. in restaurants etc. As I am very risk averse, I think I'll be staying outdoors / at home for the foreseeable future.

Click to expand...

True but the air conditioning in hospitals is no different covid 19 has been found in the ventilation ducts of hospitals any where you have air conditioning the same problem will arise so why single out gyms.

Edit to add I personally don't frequent gyms but my grandson a healthy 25 year old bodybuilder is very anxious to get back to the gym and I don't see why he should be denied the opportunity to do so when today he has been able to get a haircut but cannot go to the gym.

There’s research appearing that COVID can be transmitted not just in droplets that hang for a small moment then fall to the ground, but also in aerosols that can stay suspended for up to eight minutes.
There’s also the problem that air conditioners rarely have filters that are high spec enough or changed frequently enough to catch all the small molecules.
In enclosed spaces, the combination of recirculating and aerosols can be hazardous.
Personally, I’m surprised that gyms and bars have been opened so soon and suspect it’s because of lobbying and the dreadful prospect of more and more businesses failing.
I feel really sorry for and sad for everyone whose livelihood has been badly affected by COVID.

Here’s the article I read about aerosol transmission and enclosed, indoor spaces

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02058-1

Fairygodmother said:

There’s research appearing that COVID can be transmitted not just in droplets that hang for a small moment then fall to the ground, but also in aerosols that can stay suspended for up to eight minutes.
There’s also the problem that air conditioners rarely have filters that are high spec enough or changed frequently enough to catch all the small molecules.
In enclosed spaces, the combination of recirculating and aerosols can be hazardous.
Personally, I’m surprised that gyms and bars have been opened so soon and suspect it’s because of lobbying and the dreadful prospect of more and more businesses failing.
I feel really sorry for and sad for everyone whose livelihood has been badly affected by COVID.

Click to expand...

I agree but those aspects occur in a multiplicity of places and would make an argument for not lifting the lock down at all to differentiate between them is not logical or backed by science they are all equally as hazardous or equally as safe.

Fairygodmother said:

There’s research appearing that COVID can be transmitted not just in droplets that hang for a small moment then fall to the ground, but also in aerosols that can stay suspended for up to eight minutes.
There’s also the problem that air conditioners rarely have filters that are high spec enough or changed frequently enough to catch all the small molecules.
In enclosed spaces, the combination of recirculating and aerosols can be hazardous.
Personally, I’m surprised that gyms and bars have been opened so soon and suspect it’s because of lobbying and the dreadful prospect of more and more businesses failing.
I feel really sorry for and sad for everyone whose livelihood has been badly affected by COVID.

Click to expand...

Hmmm, aircon not only sucks stuff in. It blows stuff about.

All this recent news reminds me of the time I worked at the MOD at the time of Anthrax threats, 20 years back? (OK, Anthrax is a bacteria.)
Basically, envelopes or packages were sent to the post rooms containing a "deadly powder" for the recipient..
The advice & protocol on a suspect package or envelope was. (From memory.) close doors & windows, turn off fans & PCs (yep, computers have a fan cooling the mother board & chip set.)
I'm pretty certain it involved stripping off & calling for help? (Contaminated clothing?)

I seem to remember a case where a colleague sent some "Turkish delight" to their team mates in a section from a holiday destination & the corner of the box got broke in transit. This fine powdered sugar leaked out..? I kid you not...

JohnEGreen said:

why single out gyms.

Click to expand...

Far be it from me to defend our shambolic decision makers. It is my understanding that not all air con. is equally dangerous, but as I don't know how to tell the difference I'd rather avoid it all. Reading the proposed precautions for when the gyms re-open (no contact, no spotting, no hard breathing, no grunting and groaning!) they may not be able to offer the experience that seasoned gym-goers value. I am more concerned to know when the public libraries may re-open. I have not found this mentioned anywhere.

I believe libraries were allowed to reopen when the pubs reopened many will be operating click and collect and restricted access our local library is opening one day a week at the moment on Tuesdays.

You should check with your library as some are opening and others not.

Alexandra100 said:

no contact, no spotting, no hard breathing, no grunting and groaning!

Click to expand...

Does this also apply to libraries?

My take on the thing being airborne is that it's a no brainer. You could certainly argue that if that's the case there would be far more infections, but at the same time you can argue if it wasn't airborne there would be far fewer cases and deaths! We have to remember the lockdown easing with pubs, restaurants and the like has only happened last week so the real interesting information will probably not be available until the end of next week at the earliest due to incubation period and asymptomatic cases. I think a lot is to do with viral load as well. You will probably pick up less load walking behind someone who is carrying the virus than sitting next to them singing but sitting next to someone in an office all day or in a classroom for eight hours only time will tell.

The fact however that cruise ships were hit badly early on with people developing symptoms at various times despite passengers being confined to cabins certainly suggests possible infection through air conditioning in the cabins therefore being airborne. Meat plants for instance where breakouts have been numerous are kept very cold, which the virus likes, and have very little ventilation but at the same time from what I can gather are quite large units so again it suggests certainly an element of airborne transmission. This on top of asymptomatic transmission makes it very difficult to control and decide as an individual what to do,.

Personally I've suspected the thing being airborne from the start and I'm not surprised WHO are dragging their feet again as at the start they even denied human to human transmission. At a meeting back in I think February a WHO Dr suggested it was airborne and yet retracted his statement moments later when a note was hurriedly passed to him by a colleague.

If it is indeed airborne it certainly has ramifications for many sectors from schools, to shops to offices etc and as I work in a school I certainly don't welcome this theory. Regardless of if it is or it isn't to try and limit our risk I suspect the best way forward for anyone is to assume that it is! Personally I think the Government should make masks mandatory for ANY public/work place inside, it's a no brainer.

Max68 said:

My take on the thing being airborne is that it's a no brainer.

Click to expand...

I found this article telling:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/20/health/airflow-coronavirus-restaurants.html

I took a brave step today. I have been to the well organised garden centre several times since they opened, and today the bistro/cafe opened its doors for the first time. We didn't go inside because they have comfortable seating outdoors. We had a pot of tea. Very adventurous!!! It isn't so much being inside a cafe or similar that bothers me as much as the crockery, cutlery and glasses, how the kitchen is organised and how well the staff are trained in Covid stuff.

This cafe is franchised, and the owner of the franchise is a friend of ours. He was chatting to us (from a suitable distance) and told us he had received a 40 page list of government instructions that he had followed to the letter plus a bit extra. He had been working very hard to implement all this, and had trained all his staff accordingly. Half his tables had been removed, and a one way path marked out. Customers have to wait outside to be met by a meet and greet person who shows them to a table. All tables and chairs are sanitised as soon as they are vacated and before someone else sits there. Table service only. All crockery and cutlery goes straight in the dishwasher. No condiments on the tables. Menus are handed out when someone arrives and removed when finished with to be sanitised. And so forth. I was very impressed and may be tempted to have lunch there on my next visit.

Edited to delete something incorrect.

Nope. Not going to either. My friends tell me of people being thoughtless and invading her personal space and not wearing masks (but that will soon change). Home delivery and online shopping has seen me through so far, and will continue to do so!

notafanofsugar said:

Has anyone been brave/foolish (delete as appropriate!) to venture out shopping yet? How was it? I didn’t go today but saw the news just now and the queues look horrendous! Happy to stick with click and collect for now!!

Click to expand...

I have been shopping to a retail park and I wore my mask when entering shops but not whilst walking around. Most people were being thoughtful apart from when we were in a shop where there is not a great deal of space in isles. A man was pushing an elderly lady in a wheelchair, no masks on either of them, not giving a hoot about social distancing. When he saw me and my husband, who were both wearing a mask, step back from him he blatantly moved backwards towards us. We then left the shop after this. You would have thought he would have had the elderly lady wear a face mask as she looked over 70 and must have been in the vulnerable category. Some people have no consideration for others.

Been out on my scooter around the housing estate a couple of times, but at 95 I wear my mask every time. Don't think about going shopping though.
Stay safe folks.

Since Mid May i have been going to supermarket for food shopping twice a week. Also couple of other shops for gardening stuff.

notafanofsugar said:

Has anyone been brave/foolish (delete as appropriate!) to venture out shopping yet? How was it? I didn’t go today but saw the news just now and the queues look horrendous! Happy to stick with click and collect for now!!

Click to expand...

I been loads since this all started, I've got 3 kids to feed and their life is more important than mine. I have been going at the end of the day though and have never had to queue or had much problem avoiding people, in the first few weeks it was just get whatever I can get and make a decent meal out of but lucky already had some of the harder to get items like flour already in