Approaching end of Newcastle diet

[Krystyna23040]

Certainly not discounting LCHF, but just a bit worried that a high fat diet could lead to other complications long term.

Just wondered if this is because of the low fat is good for you message from the health professionals (you will find some really good info on this site to disprove this).

LCHF is proving to be good for you. High carb low fat not so good. High fat high carb is really really bad for you - especially if it is full of processed food.

 

[Deano72]

I would suggest you need a firm plan, because that will reduce the risks of going total your off-piste.

Obviously I don't know you. I don't know your character, but what I do know is that of those who do the ND, then drop back not eating carbs we see Lenny coming back to rerun the loop, having gained weight, experienced degrading blood scores and totally deflated.

The forum has a revolving door and folks are very welcome to use it, but if that is your choice, please do it with a clear mind.

Professor Taylor in his various papers, does state clearly that those having completed the protocol should be expecting to eat less after they have ended their cycle. He doesn't state explicitly in his papers, that I have noted, and strict approach thereafter.

When I got skinny, I wrote to Professor Taylor, explaining what I had done. I hadn't done the ND, I just reduced carbs and got skinny, and asked if he had any feeling for the best way forward. He stated that a reduced carb way of eating seemed popular for those who managed to maintain, and wished me luck.

It's up to you how you move forward, but do so with great care, recording and monitoring of your weight and blood scores. That is way more important when in the maintenance phase than when using the shakes.

Okay, thanks.

 

[Deano72]

Just wondered if this is because of the low fat is good for you message from the health professionals (you will find some really good info on this site to disprove this).

LCHF is proving to be good for you. High carb low fat not so good. High fat high carb is really really bad for you - especially if it is full of processed food.

No, nothing to do with that old advice. Although maybe I’m subconsciously influenced by it. Who knows..
To be honest I’m just processing a lot of information right now. I know high carb is bad (it’s why I’m here!!) so have no intention of going down that route. Everything else is still a little up in the air.
ND claims to prepare you for eating a regular, balanced diet, albeit with reduced quantity (common sense tells me that simple carbs should be dramatically reduced with this also). Seems to be very little support for that here though. However, what’s not clear to me is whether that’s because people have tried & failed, or been successful in another way & are (naturally) supportive of that.
LCHF appears to be another method for ongoing weight & BG management & certainly seems to be the popular choice here.
As I’ve said before I’m not discounting this, but would prefer a more balanced approach. A little disappointed in the lack of support for ND, but maybe that’s because it’s not what it cracked up to be. Maybe it’s just that it’s relatively new. Time will tell..
For me, I’ve lost a lot of weight, plan to lose a bit more, along with upping the exercise to get fitter. Simultaneously I want to keep my BG down at the levels I’ve experienced over the past several weeks. If LCHF is the answer, then it’s the answer, but at this point I’m exploring options, need to establish what works well for me (& what doesn’t). And I welcome as many opinions & suggestions as the good people here are prepared to give.
Apologies if I’m coming across differently.

 

[ickihun]

No, nothing to do with that old advice. Although maybe I’m subconsciously influenced by it. Who knows..
To be honest I’m just processing a lot of information right now. I know high carb is bad (it’s why I’m here!!) so have no intention of going down that route. Everything else is still a little up in the air.
ND claims to prepare you for eating a regular, balanced diet, albeit with reduced quantity (common sense tells me that simple carbs should be dramatically reduced with this also). Seems to be very little support for that here though. However, what’s not clear to me is whether that’s because people have tried & failed, or been successful in another way & are (naturally) supportive of that.
LCHF appears to be another method for ongoing weight & BG management & certainly seems to be the popular choice here.
As I’ve said before I’m not discounting this, but would prefer a more balanced approach. A little disappointed in the lack of support for ND, but maybe that’s because it’s not what it cracked up to be. Maybe it’s just that it’s relatively new. Time will tell..
For me, I’ve lost a lot of weight, plan to lose a bit more, along with upping the exercise to get fitter. Simultaneously I want to keep my BG down at the levels I’ve experienced over the past several weeks. If LCHF is the answer, then it’s the answer, but at this point I’m exploring options, need to establish what works well for me (& what doesn’t). And I welcome as many opinions & suggestions as the good people here are prepared to give.
Apologies if I’m coming across differently.

@deano do what I do. Do what works for you.
I wish all posters continued success in THEIR plan of action.
We are all different but the type2 disease side affects are the same. Health problems we are desperate to avoid.

ND has always had my approval due to a rough version helped me 35yrs ago. I unbeknown to myself was diabetic even then. With medical symtoms at 6yrs old I struggle to remember much of my early years education, especially English.
On my version of ND I passed ALL of my O'levels and acquired 9 grade1 CSEs. Luckily my version was a year leading up to my final exams. I revised with all my new found energy and clarity.

I find ND astonishing in the fight to reverse type2s progression.

 

[Pipp]

You don’t need to apologise for finding your own path, @Deano72 . I think that LCHF has a bigger following than ND, but there are others who have had success with ND. The advice from the ND team is indeed to eat less, but with greatly reduced weight you don’t need as much food to maintain your body.

My own journey with ND was in 2011. Although I gained good, lasting for seven years, blood glucose levels, I did not lose all of thevweight I needed due to having several months in hospital and recuperating from surgical procedures. During recovery and hospital food, others catering, and immobility, there was some weight regain. Also, I foolishly accepted a challenge to eat high carb foods. That made me crave more carbs and was hard to stop eating them. Weight regain is demoralising, but I was lucky enough to keep under diabetes blood glucose levels. I had a blip in BG, last summer after needing steroid meds, and have only just got back to acceptable lower levels again.
I think the main lesson I learnt in the year or two after ND is that you really do need a follow on plan. The advice to just eat less food is not enough. By carefully testing as you reintroduce foods you will get to know just how various foods are affecting your weight and BG and make the adjustments. I do believe that people here have been advising low carb, because that is what we need, and they are passionate about getting the message across. Sorry you have felt unsupported.

 

[jjraak]

To be honest I’m just processing a lot of information right now.
I know high carb is bad

1) ND claims to prepare you for eating a regular, balanced diet,
Seems to be very little support for that here though.

2) However, what’s not clear to me is whether that’s because people have tried & failed, or been successful in another way & are (naturally) supportive of that.

3) LCHF appears to be another method for ongoing weight & BG management & certainly seems to be the popular choice here.

As I’ve said before I’m not discounting this, but would prefer a more balanced approach.

4) A little disappointed in the lack of support for ND, but maybe that’s because it’s not what it cracked up to be.
Maybe it’s just that it’s relatively new. Time will tell..

5) For me, I’ve lost a lot of weight, plan to lose a bit more, along with upping the exercise to get fitter.
Simultaneously I want to keep my BG down at the levels I’ve experienced over the past several weeks.

6) If LCHF is the answer, then it’s the answer, but at this point I’m exploring options, need to establish what works well for me (& what doesn’t).

7) And I welcome as many opinions & suggestions as the good people here are prepared to give.

8) Apologies if I’m coming across differently.

@Deano72
took the liberty of addressing as points,
and you make some very good ones, most eloquently.

1). I think you are right, at point 2..

i think one or two have come on after the ND and asked for help..i think that colours our mind set, like you say.
not really noticed many coming on here saying lchf didn't work, but most probably just blind to the posts if im honest

2) Good point..i am in that camp, so not tried ND..but the issue, is it IS a halfway house to GET you ready to BEGIN your new way of eating.

My concern would be..and maybe others on here see it differently. BUT
for me that OLD way of eating HAS GONE..i can't row back to how i used to eat, OR the progress i've made will reverse..
i hope your path leads you to the same conclusion what ever route you take.

3) Indeed and i too was sceptical, yet the DOCTORS way, the BALANCED diet left me wretched, tired, hungry and after 6 weeks of it..

weight down by a mere pound or two, but ALL my BLOOD work markers had further deteriorated..i was distraught.
after all my efforts, i was NOT getting better i was getting worse..so felt i had little to lose TRYING various parts of this new way of eating (WOE)

after some trials and experiments, I have now fully adapted my WOE to this method..and by that i mean LOW carb, and BETTER fats..
i eat meats with the fat on, i eat avocado, i use full fat milk, double cream...Low fat is banned from my fridge..

Since eating this way, all my blood markers have improved, my HBA1c, has gone from 57..down to 42..nearly out of the danger zone..so yeah it works for ME..can i guarantee it will work for you..Nope.

we all on here must make a mature, adult choice of WHAT exactly WE WILL do to improve our own health.

I think we are all renegades and rebels on here, ( more of a coalition, rather then us all singing with one voice.)
but all refusing to accept there is NO other way but the way prescribed that IS making us worse.

Many choose, less carb then i do, some choose more fats then i do..and if that works for them..i'm fine with that too.
you too must choose a way that is right for YOU.

4) as above ..and i hope so if that's the way you choose...genuine best wishes..
( it's not meant to be a p*ssing contest, " MY ways better then yours"....sorry if i came across that way..not intended.

it's all just evidence based from my/our OWN experiences..what we all want is to help others find a way that works, and like you point out, when that way IS LCHF....then that's what and WHY so many advocate it.

We genuinely wish you well, WHATEVER route you choose..( @DCUKMod said it best i think.

5) + 6) + 7) ) sincerely wish you all the best in maintaining and continued good health, long may it continue.


8) exactly where i was at one point,
Enquiring, sifting through some knowledge you/i have/had only recently discovered.
Questioning the merits and truth of what you have read, particularly when it seems to contradict all we have been told.

It's good to challenge.

Good luck in your journey..best wishes whatever route you take.

 

[Deano72]

Thanks again all.

First things first. Only 8 days of the ND hell left. And then the hard part!!

I will post my progress...

 

[Pipp]

Thanks again all.

First things first. Only 8 days of the ND hell left. And then the hard part!!

I will post my progress...

Oh dear. Are you really finding it hell? After the first day or so I found it easy. Never felt better in fact.

 

[Deano72]

Oh dear. Are you really finding it hell? After the first day or so I found it easy. Never felt better in fact.

No, just feeling a bit jovial, having just got back from a good walk & for the first time this year I didn’t need a hat, scarf & gloves!!
To be honest, it’s okay most of the time. Have hungry days & brief periods of hunger at random times. Mostly okay though & I follow Prof Taylor’s advice & toast the hunger with a nice big glass of water!!

 

[OrsonKartt]

No, just feeling a bit jovial, having just got back from a good walk & for the first time this year I didn’t need a hat, scarf & gloves!!
To be honest, it’s okay most of the time. Have hungry days & brief periods of hunger at random times. Mostly okay though & I follow Prof Taylor’s advice & toast the hunger with a nice big glass of water!!

Omg. The amount of info / opinions you have had! I'm slightly hesitant to add anything but just wanted to say the 1st and only time I've ever dieted was with the Nd. I did find it brutal but it demonstrated something significant for me - that I could actually do it. ...I had no plan afterward - Looking back I was suckered into believing that maybe just maybe it would be a one time fix. ....The one thing that saved my sorry backside was that I kept testing. ....Lots of testing. I didn't trust a soul until I had verifiable information from my meter. ..........I do wish you well and please do let us know how you get on and how you got there. The resource we have here in this forum is imho rare in that we can share what really goes on i.e. Personal knowledge rather than what someone believes. Take care - best thoughts

Mod edit: language

 

[Kalaipillay]

Hello

I was diagnosed T2 in November after mentioning to my doctor during a visit about something else that my feet hurt. Sadly it didn’t occur to me that throbbing feet had anything to do with diabetes, or anything other than uncomfortable work boots for that matter!
So my Hba1c came in at 65. Had a second test a couple of weeks later, which was 66.
Had a brief conversation with my GP, during which she mentioned the condition was reversible & there were tablets I could take that would help (Metformin).
I panicked a bit, knew I was going to have to get up to speed & was going on holiday 2 days later. So, I opted for the tablets & started taking 1x500mg Metformin per day, progressing to 2, then 3 just before Christmas.
Over the next month I started eating more sensibly. Less takeaways & junk. More real food (some of which I have since learned wasn’t the best choice) & lost around a stone in weight (19 stone 7 on diagnosis. 18 stone 7 just before Christmas). During this time I came across this website, amongst others & absorbed a wealth of information. Read Michael Moseley’s Blood Sugar Diet book, books on other diets, etc & started leaning towards giving the Newcastle Diet a shot in the new year. Spoke to my GP about it, who was supportive & assured me I had nothing to worry about by following a VLCD for 2 months.
Bought myself a blood sugar test kit & my first 100 shakes (opted for Shake That Weight), enjoyed Christmas (although more conservatively than I’m used to) & decided to start the diet on January 7th.
Took first BG readings on January 1st. 11.3 fasting & 10 2 hours after evening meal.
Ate sensibly for the next few days. Essentially portion control, low carb, low fat and my readings the day before starting the diet were 7.8 & 9.7. My weight on this day was 18 stone 8.
As others have said the diet isn’t easy. Some days, for reasons I can’t put my finger on are harder than others. The small amount of real food is a challenge to keep interesting, but the whole thing is easier than I thought it would be. Curry powder has been a life saver.
So, at the end of week one I’d lost 10.5lb & my BG readings, after improving daily were 4.9 & 6.1. All of this was very motivational. I stopped taking Metformin at this point. GP was fine with me doing this & it made no difference whatsoever.
The following weeks saw my blood results stay the same. Always between 4.5 & 5 fasting. And low 5’s to low 6’s 2 hours after either a shake or the food. Weight loss continued at quite a pace too. About half a stone a week & a loss of something every single day.
I am now in to week seven. My weight is 15 stone 12. Getting on for 4 stone down, nearly 3 since starting the diet, average fasting BG over the last 28 days is 4.8 & average overall BG over the last 7 days is 5.4. Just under 2 weeks to go. I am bored of the diet, but still motivated.
So, 2 reasons for my post (& I appreciate its long. I am a waffler!).
First, I have found other people’s stories I’ve read informative & inspirational. Hopefully my post can do the same for others.
Second, I’m really looking forward to eating real food soon, but am anxious. I’ve read many different takes on the best way to handle the transition back to food, maintenance & exercise regimes. I’d be really interested in any advice or suggestions from others who have completed the diet.

Thanks & good luck to everyone else on this journey...

Hello
Am new to the group and to the diet. On day 3. I wanted to ask what do you eat on this Newcastle diet.im just doing the shake and steamed marrows, did a salad yesterday But getting severe headaches
Need to stay motivated for the 8 weeks But just wondering what are meal options if any

Thanks so much Kalai

 

[Deano72]

Hello
Am new to the group and to the diet. On day 3. I wanted to ask what do you eat on this Newcastle diet.im just doing the shake and steamed marrows, did a salad yesterday But getting severe headaches
Need to stay motivated for the 8 weeks But just wondering what are meal options if any

Thanks so much Kalai

First off, well done for giving it a go. It’s not a easy thing to do.
Obviously, I’m not a doctor, you say your headaches are severe. Do you normally get headaches? What do you mean by severe? These are rhetorical questions from me, but worth some thought...
I can only share my own experiences about side effects. They differ from person to person, but are primarily in the early days, for most I believe. I struggled with low energy for a week or so, hunger obviously & have an ongoing battle with my bowels! But all of it got easier after the first week or two. You’re on day 3, which is probably side effect central!! Keep your eye on those headaches though. Might be an idea to speak to your doctor (I presume your doctor is aware you’re doing ND & has confirmed your general level of health is ok to do it?).
In terms of when to eat, the literature says to split the total amount up in to at least 3 servings. I found this too complicated to manage, so I have a shake in the morning, another at lunchtime, veggies around 5 or 6, then a final shake a couple of hours later. And plenty of water throughout the day. The water is critical. The days I haven’t had enough I’ve felt worse, typically lethargic & constipated (for 2-3 days after).
I’m not an authority, but would think as long as your intake is correct it doesn’t really matter when in the day you eat the veggies. My only advice here though is try to vary what you have as much as possible & stick to primarily leafy greens.
Only you know whether the level of discomfort from a side effect is tolerable. If it is, don’t worry about it, it’s likely to pass. If not, speak to your GP.

 

[ringi]

headaches => drink a lot of water and check you are getting enough salt

Are you taking any BP (or other meds) that remove salt or water from your body?

If no improvement within a few days, see GP.

 

[Kalaipillay]

First off, well done for giving it a go. It’s not a easy thing to do.
Obviously, I’m not a doctor, you say your headaches are severe. Do you normally get headaches? What do you mean by severe? These are rhetorical questions from me, but worth some thought...
I can only share my own experiences about side effects. They differ from person to person, but are primarily in the early days, for most I believe. I struggled with low energy for a week or so, hunger obviously & have an ongoing battle with my bowels! But all of it got easier after the first week or two. You’re on day 3, which is probably side effect central!! Keep your eye on those headaches though. Might be an idea to speak to your doctor (I presume your doctor is aware you’re doing ND & has confirmed your general level of health is ok to do it?).
In terms of when to eat, the literature says to split the total amount up in to at least 3 servings. I found this too complicated to manage, so I have a shake in the morning, another at lunchtime, veggies around 5 or 6, then a final shake a couple of hours later. And plenty of water throughout the day. The water is critical. The days I haven’t had enough I’ve felt worse, typically lethargic & constipated (for 2-3 days after).
I’m not an authority, but would think as long as your intake is correct it doesn’t really matter when in the day you eat the veggies. My only advice here though is try to vary what you have as much as possible & stick to primarily leafy greens.
Only you know whether the level of discomfort from a side effect is tolerable. If it is, don’t worry about it, it’s likely to pass. If not, speak to your GP.

Thank you so much, so today I upped my liquid intake and had no headaches today
I was advised by my cardiologist to go onto this diet. BP was high, sugar at 15. However my weight is 68kg, with a height of 156cm. So my bmi is above 30? Hence his suggestion I go on this diet to curb my diabetes and help my bp
Did a shake for breakfast and lunch, and a veggie soup for supper
I found a meal plan with some recipes fur veggies allowed and soup recipes on this site
I need variety to keep me going

 

[Pipp]

@Kalaipillay , were you told to include some oil with the vegetables? If not I would advise at least a teaspoon of olive oil, or coconut oil, as this will help prevent the formation of gallstones.
You can also use herbs and spices, so stirfries and veg curries are possible too.

 

[Kalaipillay]

@Kalaipillay , were you told to include some oil with the vegetables? If not I would advise at least a teaspoon of olive oil, or coconut oil, as this will help prevent the formation of gallstones.
You can also use herbs and spices, so stirfries and veg curries are possible too.

Hi, wow thank you for this. I didn't know I could use a little bit of oils. This will definitely help thank you

 

[ickihun]

@Kalaipillay , were you told to include some oil with the vegetables? If not I would advise at least a teaspoon of olive oil, or coconut oil, as this will help prevent the formation of gallstones.
You can also use herbs and spices, so stirfries and veg curries are possible too.

I'm finding the semi-skimmed milk instead of skimmed enough fat in the 800cals. I leave a little in bottom of my shaker to offset cals.
On occasion I'm having weak bovil in veg stir fry. Or other seasonings have high salt so I'm well covered. Although Doc's want me on low salt so I can reduce my blood pressure tablets. Their theory not mine.
I had low pressure after endoscopy so it's noted if no food my blood pressure is lower. As my body/metabolism isn't asked to jump into action.

 

[ringi]

The modem shakes have a little more fat in them due to issues with gallstones when the original research was done on very low cal diets.

 

[Deano72]

Thank you so much, so today I upped my liquid intake and had no headaches today
I was advised by my cardiologist to go onto this diet. BP was high, sugar at 15. However my weight is 68kg, with a height of 156cm. So my bmi is above 30? Hence his suggestion I go on this diet to curb my diabetes and help my bp
Did a shake for breakfast and lunch, and a veggie soup for supper
I found a meal plan with some recipes fur veggies allowed and soup recipes on this site
I need variety to keep me going

Don’t forget it’s a 800 calorie diet - 3 shakes/soups PLUS a portion of veg.
Regarding variety I make a batch of tomatoe, pepper, celery, onion soup, kale & spinach soup (with some black pepper & chilli powder to fire it up) once a week. Day one, I partially blend it, eat a bowl & freeze another portion or two for other days. Then I blitz the rest & use it as sauce to pour over various (otherwise bland) vegetables for 4 or 5 days. Made the recipe up, following some guidelines I found somewhere on the internet & tweaked it till it was good. And it is good. My wife loves it & she can eat whatever she likes! Some weeks I miss out the veg altogether one day & have a extra shake. Not sure this would be recommended, but it helps keep the variety theme alive.
I’ve got 4 days to go. Genuinely can’t believe how far 800 calories a day takes me now - walking an average of 7 or 8 miles a day effortlessly (2 miles nearly killed me in the beginning!) Lost over 4 stone, BG results low & stable (4.5 - 5.5). Feel great.
Only time will tell how effective ND is in the long term, but if it’s nothing else, it’s a fantastic springboard. Stick with it.... And stay on top of your water intake. So easy to let this slip..

 

[Kalaipillay]

Don’t forget it’s a 800 calorie diet - 3 shakes/soups PLUS a portion of veg.
Regarding variety I make a batch of tomatoe, pepper, celery, onion soup, kale & spinach soup (with some black pepper & chilli powder to fire it up) once a week. Day one, I partially blend it, eat a bowl & freeze another portion or two for other days. Then I blitz the rest & use it as sauce to pour over various (otherwise bland) vegetables for 4 or 5 days. Made the recipe up, following some guidelines I found somewhere on the internet & tweaked it till it was good. And it is good. My wife loves it & she can eat whatever she likes! Some weeks I miss out the veg altogether one day & have a extra shake. Not sure this would be recommended, but it helps keep the variety theme alive.
I’ve got 4 days to go. Genuinely can’t believe how far 800 calories a day takes me now - walking an average of 7 or 8 miles a day effortlessly (2 miles nearly killed me in the beginning!) Lost over 4 stone, BG results low & stable (4.5 - 5.5). Feel great.
Only time will tell how effective ND is in the long term, but if it’s nothing else, it’s a fantastic springboard. Stick with it.... And stay on top of your water intake. So easy to let this slip..

Thank you so much for tgis
So I did a stirfry, cauli soup, vegetable soup, then found cauli spaghetti at our health shop and did a mushroom spinach cauli spaghetti..but I'm finding when I add vegetables I'm feeling full. Think my body got used to the shakes, now vegetables seem too much So doing smaller portions. Of the vegetable. When I weigh the vegetables it comes to. About 200gr. I've also done kale chips and beetroot chips Helps me with a light snack in between the more I'm exploring the meal options, the more I'm enjoying it. The challenge is when we're out and about There aren't options really for us Tgis weekend we have a wedding that's away from home for a few days, going to be challenging Taking my beetroot and kale chips for in between my shakes