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Approaching end of Newcastle diet

@Deano72
It seems to me you are experiencing a bit of a blip. You have done what you thought was the hard bit, but are discovering the reality that is if you return to old ways of eating your diabetic blood glucose levels and your weight will increase. Don’t undo your hard work.

Don’t panic! It is not really feasible to return to ND on a regular basis, though I admit to doing it occasionally, (perhaps only for 3 or 4 weeks, once a year). A preferred method would, for me, be 24 hour fasting one day a week. Not as harsh as it seems, as I have a low carb evening meal, then nothing but fluids until the next evening low carb meal.

Have a look at the work of Dr Jason Fung on fasting.
https://blog.virtahealth.com/type-2-diabetes-can-be-reversed/

Best of luck.
 

Thanks Pipp. I had to find out sooner or later whether the ND was a success or not. Guess it wasn’t!
With regard to blips, so I had a couple of carby days over the bank holiday weekend (hardly a return to old ways, just a bit more carefree than usual). For the past 4 days my carbs have been around 60g per day & spread out, but I’m still waking up to BG levels of around 7 & seeing them return to that level 2 hours after eating, irrespective of whether or not what I ate included any carbs. I’m rarely seeing under 6 & yesterday woke up to 8. Fasting is about the highest number of the day & normally the lowest. For lunch today I had a omelette with a little cheese, cooked with butter. 6.2 before I ate it, 7.2 2 hours later. Bit confused & trying to figure out whether this is all a hangover from the bad choices (& if so, how long I can expect it to last), or I need to see my doctor?
I’ll give a 24 hour fast a go. See if that helps.
Thanks again...
 

Are you well in yourself, Deano? Sometimes a bit of a bug, or poor sleep can just nudge the bloods up a bit for a few days.

I'm not trying trivialise things, but maybe asking you think a bit wider, even if just to discount it.

It must be frustrating for you.
 

I’m all for trivial things! Way preferable to the alternatives!!
Come to think of it, I had a few restless nights until last night & have felt more tired than usual the last few days. And although I’m not suffering yet, it is the beginning of hay fever season. But those niggles aside I feel fine. You think such things can have such an impact on BG?
 

They do.

I know if I have a bad night, my bloods don't go horrible off-piste, but they go move upwards in their running range.
 
Deano72 said:
Thanks Pipp. I had to find out sooner or later whether the ND was a success or not. Guess it wasn’t
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I guess that depends on how you look at it, and what your expectations were. I wouldn’t say it was a total failure, as you lost a fair amount of weight, and managed to reduce your blood glucose levels for a time. If you were expecting ND to be a complete cure, and you could go back to old way of eating then you are bound to be disappointed. It appears that you are not ‘cured’ as you hoped, but could still gain good control. The danger is that you could just shrug and say “Oh well, that didn’t work” and waste and undo all the progress so far.
Hopefully, the current raised levels are a result of slipping more carbs into your diet recently. Or, as mentioned you could just be under the weather, a bit unwell at the moment. Either way, you can gain good control again. Lots of people do. Don’t give up now. Check out other sub-forums, particularly the low carb diet ones, get inspired.
https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/category/low-carb-diet-forum.18/
 
Hi @Deano72 .
.fantastic effort AND results ..
Congratulations.

Not wishing to muddy the waters, and for transparency I never went ND, I started and still am T2D on LCHF..tried OMAD, but more regularly most days, its 2MAD.

I always thought of the ND as LC on turbo charge, and as you prove giving great results for those who stick it (, and I do believe, ND Would be a hard regime, for many.)

The sticky part IS transitioning from ND to an alternative food lifestyle .(vegan, paleo, etc)
Your doing great, but I think that what helped me most , was the mindset, that this isn't a diet.

While ND, has massively helped deplete the excess sugars in your body, it isn't sustainable (or more likely enjoyable enough to continue looking term, to be more accurate) so much so, that if any did, the likely hood of regression would I think be in the high %.

So your move back to 'foods' again is a good step, it just needs you to do, as I did, as many have, to rebuild a repertoire of food you CAN eat that won't spike you, food you COULD eat, that would be for the occasional treat.
And most definitely food you CAN'T eat.

(I also lost several stone, and I never even look at the calories in anything anymore, the only info I look for Is CARBS
up to 5g per 100..in the basket, 5- 10..I um and ah about whether it's worth it, over 10g, back on the shelf, pronto and move along,)

Not knocking the ND way, honest.
Just once done, the next step requires this learning imho
It took me 3-6 months to get my body/mind into the new way of eating.
Now it's my new Normal.. And I am not a saint either, so yeah, I occasionally eat off the 'T2D menu', so when BG is raised I know why.

And the body is most definitely not linear.
What you do today, may not show for a few days or a week later,... that is why the trend rather then the data now, is probably the most helpful marker.

For example most days my fbg is low 5's
Went on holiday, relaxed the diet, alcohol etc, no real spikes, yet it took almost a month to get my FBG from the mid 6's back into the low 5's..and that was just back to my normal pre holiday way of eating.

Most meals pre is low 5's. 2hrs is high 6's low 7's..all under 2.0 rise

your numbers all sound normal, in the context that your reintroducing higher carbs again . it's a big learning curve, give yourself credit for what you've done, and learning from the 'mistake ' food choices, IS a good thing .
So don't let doubt undo all the good work so far.

Which ever route you take, you'll have to learn what and how different foods impact YOU.

I guess we all just have to decide where our own, line in the sand is regarding food AND how much effort we personally are willing to commit to that 'Better' health, living with T2D.

For some it's full on keto, for others LC/ LCHF or vegan
The destination is the same, it's just the method of the journey, that differs .

Good luck.
 
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Thanks jjraak, your holiday experience was similar to a holiday I took last month (up about a point across all test times & took just shy of 3 weeks to return to pre-holiday levels).
Never really considered a marginally excessive weekend in the same vein as a holiday, but now I think about it, it’s exactly the same. Interestingly last night postprandial was 5.4. To be fair this was assisted by a couple of glasses of red wine, but this mornings fbg was 6 (a point better than my recent average), so fingers crossed it’s on it’s way back to normal.
Also useful to understand your “recovery time” - this is the kind of info I was hoping for when I asked the question.
So thanks again & Pipp too. I have no plans to shrug my shoulders, or return to the bad old days. But to be honest, I’ll never be 100% strict 100% of the time. There’ll always be the occasional straying. Just need to figure out acceptable straying, no go foods & what to expect following a treat. And any tips for reversing temporary harm done from such treats, such as the fasting suggestion.
Also feel I’ve learned the hard way the absolute importance of exercise. Missing a day or so is probably okay, but several days, not so much!
But thanks all, I have been stressing over my numbers the last few days, which in itself has probably driven them up a bit. Feeling better about things now...
 
I think you have this sussed, then, @Deano72 .
No need to stress, just keep on with testing BG, and adjusting food accordingly. Exercise is great, too, but no substitute for keeping diet on track.

Also helps some folks to stay active in the forums. So keep on posting and reading.
 
Deano72 said:
I am bored of the diet, but still motivated.
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Think about it this way - the diet is less boring than dialysis

First, I have found other people’s stories I’ve read informative & inspirational. Hopefully my post can do the same for others.
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Very much so - yours is a great story of what can be accomplished.


I'm going with gradual reintroduction of foods focusing on veggies and lean protein (such as fish) by staging meals. For example I'll only eat lunch for a week (while continuing with liquid supplements for other meals), then add dinner. All along I'll limit carbs and avoid carbs that caused the problem to begin with - refined carbs.

Maybe someone who's been through the process of food reintroduction will have some personal experience they can share.
 
Doug_NL said:
My favorite saying about exercise vs diet: "you can't outrun a bad diet".
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well but partly we can or some can... it all depends on how much muscle mass we gain and how many calories also we burn... I am sure if I hadn´t gained around 8 kg of muscles in the last 3 years that I would have had a full-blown diabetic level of HbA1c now... the best of cause would be if I stayed low carb all the time, but I sin rather often ... that would have given much worse consequences if 'I hadn´t exercised as much as I do..
 

I’m no expert on any of this stuff, but learning tons as I go along. Sadly, some knowledge has come through trial & error and although my habits have changed so dramatically it’s hard to believe, I still sin & likely always will...
For me exercise makes a huge difference. If I go out for a 10-15 mile bike ride, or do a 5 mile walk in advance of treating myself (maybe with a few beers & a meal out) I see no change in BG results (if I have a lot of beer, fbg is slightly elevated the following day).
If I maintain a decent amount of cycling & walking daily (or most days at least) this has a positive effect on all my BG tests.
When I was on the ND I generally had a fasting result around 4-4.5 & postprandial around 5.5. When I reintroduced food (mainly low carb, but not strict. 70-100 grams per day typically) these increased to 5-6 fasting & 6-7 postprandial. With regular exercise (which I’ve slowly introduced & increased since finishing the ND) & the same diet (with or without occasional treats) I’m at 5-<6 fasting & postprandial is more like 5.5-6.5.
So I think exercise may have a different level of benefit for different people. Maybe for those of us who struggle with strict low carbing it’s a must. I’m also very aware things can change & just when you think you’re figuring this disease out a bullet from nowhere & you’re back in the danger zone!
I’m still in the early days of this journey & have gained so much from reading the comments from others, but I’ve also learned we have to find our own way. Whether it’s advice from heath professionals, a strict diet, following LCHF, exercise in its many forms, medication, we’re all different.
A big focus for me right now is reducing my fasting BG a bit (more trial & error), shaving a bit more weight off (currently less than 1 point from having a healthy BMI) & I’ll be getting a hba1c result in a couple of weeks. Will post again then.
In the meantime, thanks for the replies & good luck on your own journeys...
 

Good answer deano.

we ARE all individual and at different stages of the journey and also at differing level of metabolic rate (?)

All we can do is sieve out the truth and use what works for US..and a lot of that is trial and error,
but it beats the Blind Faith some put into doing what they are told, regardless of the risks or consequences.

Great work on the BMI, and good luck with the upcoming HBA1c test.

Safe journeys.
 
The above advice is really an excellent composite of what many have conveyed.

The big benefit of LCHF IMO is that it isnt a diet,its just eliminating that which wants to harm you.CARBS and added/hidden sugars.It leaves all kinds of great choices and doesnt deprive you much (for me bread et al and french fries=death, but I do miss em) and bottom line for many,its so simple to adhere to.

And before and after meal testing everything until you know what YOU can eat and cant,it does vary Im learning.Thats just critical advice IMO.

Best wishes going forward Deano,you will find YOUR path that will work so dont be discouraged.
 
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Doug_NL said:
My favorite saying about exercise vs diet: "you can't outrun a bad diet".
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That is so true. I know of someone who uses the cardio machines at the gym that display the calories burned, then uses that to justify eating same amount of calories in cake and coffee with sugar after. They can’t understand why the exercise regime is not resulting in weight loss.
 
1spuds said:
And before and after meal testing everything until you know what YOU can eat and cant,it does vary Im learning.Thats just critical advice IMO.
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I fully agree, but would add that over time what you can and can’t safely eat without raising blood glucose levels could change. That could be due to all sorts of factors, for example in my case, getting older, other health issues, stressful life events, ability to exercise or not, even the weather. Only solution is to keep on testing blood glucose levels even if only periodically, and adjust food intake accordingly.
 
I went low carb when diagnosed, with no drugs and got into remission that way - weight loss was a bit slower than yours but my numbers where down into normal range quickly and I've now lost nearly 5 stone.
I found I can eat more carbs then some of the others; I started on 100g for a couple of weeks then down to 85g (less one some days as I just didn't need more food). Now that I'm in remission I have up to 100g a day, occasionally just over without any issues.
As far as I am concerned, this is probably for life - there is limited evidence but it suggests that remission disappears back into T2 with more carbs, even though that can take months to show up.
 
Pipp said:
Only solution is to keep on testing blood glucose levels even if only periodically, and adjust food intake accordingly.
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Exactly.I quit testing,got sloppy on diet and didnt see it. I went back into uncontrolled glucose worse than ever.I will never quit testing again.

Deano,that is what is happening to you.Your 'diet' went all over the place after ND.You do have to follow HCLF ( or whatever you decide on),which you havent committed to.You have to be fully committed to beating T2 or its not going to work.....some things you have said....
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I’m guessing that having a couple of pretty high carb days last weekend has spiked me, but it doesn’t want to seem to go back down. Even after going really low carb & high fat for a few days.

What experience is there out there with regard to carb driven BG spikes & how long the hangover from them lasts? (Cheating doesnt work,thats that answer-Spuds)

With regard to blips, so I had a couple of carby days over the bank holiday weekend (hardly a return to old ways, just a bit more carefree than usual)

I have no plans to shrug my shoulders, or return to the bad old days. But to be honest, I’ll never be 100% strict 100% of the time. There’ll always be the occasional straying. Just need to figure out acceptable straying, no go foods & what to expect following a treat. And any tips for reversing temporary harm done from such treats, such as the fasting suggestion.
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You have to be as fully committed on post ND as you were on ND.You dont have to be 'strict' you have to be reasonable.And reasonable means those carbs are gone.If you want to beat it.One food item slip up can be excusable,days of slip ups are going to destroy you.A 'couple days' of bad wont cut it.You destroy all you have done by bouncing your body around.As you've seen.

Commit FULLY to a post food regimen as fully as you did to ND,you will succeed.Dont,and you wont.

Choice is this...no bread,no pasta,no rice,no potatoes,no starches,no processed carbs period.No grains,no sugars.All else pretty much is edible.This is going to be your new life if you want to live.Its no big deal,its just a new path.A brain reset.

Start reading the diet and glucose number threads,the info is right there.

Test pre and 2 hours post every meal.Record every meal and every result.This is very important,especially early on.After seeing the breakfast meal works,you wont have to test the 'usual',like eggs,bacon,and avocado (whatever),you know its a winner.AFTER you are fully meal tested and adapted,like 2-3 months of controlled glucose levels,start some new testing on foods.

Then and only then can you try a,singular, piece of bread and pre and post test at 60,90-and 120 minutes and even 180 and honestly say if you can afford the increase when you can REALLY see how those numbers are spiking.

Then several days later try a pasta. You are going to find what most of us find,we just cant tolerate those foods.SOME folks can,and thats great,lucky them.....but they are usually also fully invested into serious exercise.I mean serious!

IMO never give up the testing even when you have reached control,you have to stay aware and that keeps you on track.An example testing regime is a fasting in AM and 2 hours after dinner,gives some good insight.When well controlled. It doesnt have to be much,once or twice a day,every day or 2 days,just enough to make darn sure you are still on track and if you see trending up,get more serious about testing.Me,its a minimum twice a day,I need feedback.We all are different though.

Always test new foods.And as pointed out,test the golden oldies too,that we change is very good advice.

You MUST fully commit to your new food regimen.Thats the bottom line as most of us see it.
 
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