Are brief high sugar spikes OK?

[bobrobert]

I think it's wonderful that many of you strive for levels in the 4s at all times, and I generally try to do the same myself.

However, let's make sure we're clear that for the most part that isn't necessary. Of course, we want our blood sugar to be as low as possible (without being hypoglycemic), but there becomes a point when it has diminishing returns.

Sure, the chances of developing complications are lower with an a1c of 4.5 compared to 5.5 but how much lower? Are we talking about reducing our risk from .5% down to .2%? Unfortunately, it's impossible to know exactly what our individual risk is. However, we do know that roughly 75% of diabetics have an a1c greater than 6.0 (based on statistics from the USA CDC). That doesn't necessarily make it okay to have an a1c of 5.9, but all things considered, it puts you at a lower risk compared to 75% of the diabetic population. I wonder what percent have an a1c below 5.5? Below 5? Are we talking about 5%? 1%? Even less?

My point is, at what point do you draw the line and realize that it's negatively affecting your life just in a different way?

Well said that man!

 

[Sirmione]

I will throw a spanner into the works lets remember that meters are not that accurate, I have tried a few types against control solution and while most are fairly dependable at the low/medium end tested against control solution and everyday real samples the spread of results on real samples apears to increases the further up the scale the sample is.
The Codefree meter I use everyday , normally when tested against medium control solution range 5.0-7.8 mmol/L gives a reading of 6.4, another meter from a different manuafacturer reads 6.7 and another reads 7.4 while another type reads 5.8 all are within the specified standard.
Personally I take the view that for me below 6.8 after a meal is fine over that and I try and identify the cause, readings above 7.8 I really don't feel happy about. When if do get readings outside my comfort zone then it is always starchy or hidden carbs to blame and not obvious sugars.

Just over one year on from diagnosis I have learned how my body reacts to foods and have become more relaxed about testing I test for 3 weeks then take a 3 week break.

 

[Kristin251]

Those spikes would be normal for me if I ate carbs. But I don't, because I'm diabetic. My body has a problem dealing with sugar, so I don't worry about what's "normal", I just avoid the stuff - including the sugar in milk, bread and porridge. Why take the risk of spikes, no matter how normal they may be, when I can easily avoid them?

Kate

Perfectly said! That's what I was trying to says

 

[novorapidboi26]

Its a good way to go about your diabetes control by just not having carbs, I agree......but its boring and more importantly difficult to omit them completely....., life is for living in my opinion......

of course I might be blowing a different tune if I was type 2......

 

[Kristin251]

Liver dumps, stress, exercise, dawn phenomenon... I also got a very pretty pattern of cyclical spikes from food poisoning.

Thats exactly what I meant. No BF and I always go up. Exercise as well.

I like to be in the 4's but that is also where I feel best. I eat the meals that work with my bs AND with my stomach. I have lots of intolerances ( carbs being the big one ) and can only eat small meals. Starches, grains, sugar and fruit have been out of my diet for a long time, well before I was diabetic because I don't digest them. I don't miss them at all. Well maybe fruit but occasionally infill have a few berries if they're around somewhere but I don't buy them.
My goal isn't as much as low bs but rather low insulin. Insulin and I are like oil and water. I am very sensitive to it as well as the feeling fluctuations so steady is the name of my game. I really don't feel like I'm missing out on life without carbs. They make me tired achy crabby etc. no need for them. I love my veggies, proteins avocado and nuts. Sounds like a simple menu but works for me. As I have said in other posts, fixing the spikes is not worth the food in most cases. There are other treats I would rather have like new sandals or a handbag. That makes me happier than a piece of cake as silly as that may sound.

 

[ickihun]

how is this possible?

I spike too. No breakfast then exercise takes me to 9-10 no problem. I may has well had a cream cake for breakfast!
Fasting doesn't work for me.

 

[david1968]

Isn't this partly about when you test as well? I've never tested within an hour of eating but usually try and test two hours after. I'm pretty sure that if I was testing one hour after eating I'd be seeing more spikes but as it is most of my two hour readings are under 8.5 and recently have been down in the 6s.

 

[Bluetit1802]

Isn't this partly about when you test as well? I've never tested within an hour of eating but usually try and test two hours after. I'm pretty sure that if I was testing one hour after eating I'd be seeing more spikes but as it is most of my two hour readings are under 8.5 and recently have been down in the 6s.

Spot on!

Most normal peaks occur before the 2 hour mark. Depending on the food eaten, they happen either within an hour or about 90 minutes. Some happen within half an hour if there are very quick release carbs. Anyone wanting to catch their peaks need to test half hourly until satisfied things are back to normal. By the 2 hour mark we should be well on our way down. There are one or two foods, like pizza, that can fool us by sometimes peaking later. It's not an exact science.

 

[david1968]

Spot on!

Most normal peaks occur before the 2 hour mark. Depending on the food eaten, they happen either within an hour or about 90 minutes. Some happen within half an hour if there are very quick release carbs. Anyone wanting to catch their peaks need to test half hourly until satisfied things are back to normal. By the 2 hour mark we should be well on our way down. There are one or two foods, like pizza, that can fool us by sometimes peaking later. It's not an exact science.

The ones that surprised me were Weetabix and porridge - was way up even after two hours so stopped eating them. God knows where my levels were at after an hour.

 

[Pura Vida]

Isn't this partly about when you test as well? I've never tested within an hour of eating but usually try and test two hours after. I'm pretty sure that if I was testing one hour after eating I'd be seeing more spikes but as it is most of my two hour readings are under 8.5 and recently have been down in the 6s.

my last test there was no difference from 1 to 2 hrs. but it may depend on the food

 

[pleinster]

I second every word, especially of your first paragraph.

More than a few moments over 7.5 is *not* okay.

I'm still not agreeing with this idea that a reading of 7.5mmols an hour after a meal (particularly one involving simple carbs) is NOT ok. It is. I also agree with @Brunneria on the fact that "normal people" only hit such levels for a few minutes...but she is not referring to diabetics...of course it's not wonderful, but 7.5 is by no means a high level if it comes down again within a hour...for Type 2s..it is "normal". I think what we can say accurately, is that diabetes is not ok, but it is important that we recognise what is and is not cause for panic.

 

[Kristin251]

Just because someone chooses to maintain non diabetic ranges even as a diabetic does not mean we are panicking. I'm not. I AM a diabetic but eating low carb keeps me in non diabetic ranges. Not a big deal for me. It's just food. Who cares? The bonus is I love my low carb foods and so does my bs.

Again, we all have our own personal goals but as far as health is concerned not spiking and staying in non diabetic ranges is obviously better.

Eat your carbs, enjoy them. Your choice. I'm not trying to steer you one way or another. It isn't that hard to achieve numbers under 6 at most.

Type 2's shouldn't have any different parameters than normal people. Simple carbs are not for diabetics. Diabetics have a disease of carb rich foods. Minimizing carb rich foods, especially simple carbs is our healthiest medicine out there as far as I am concerned

 

[Sirmione]

It is important not to become too focused on simple carbs For me some complex starchy carbohydrates are the main danger -- as all ready mentioned by other posters Pizza and Weetabix can cause delayed long lasting elevsated readings. What effects on our blood glucose levels of various foods and combinations of foods have on us as individuals varies greatly.

 

[Kristin251]

It is important not to become too focused on simple carbs For me some complex starchy carbohydrates are the main danger -- as all ready mentioned by other posters Pizza and Weetabix can cause delayed long lasting elevsated readings. What effects on our blood glucose levels of various foods and combinations of foods have on us as individuals varies greatly.

I haven't eaten starchy carbs in years for those exact same reasons. Complex, simple, still all carbs at the end of the day

 

[Sirmione]

The view I take that as a type 2 going zero carb was a tactic I used to bring my readings down in for two months or so after diagnosis, since then I have followed a long term strategy of re-introducing selected carbs carefully monitoring my blood glucose levels so it remains balanced by my insulin production. The results are surprising, even baffling and sometimes delightful .
For a type 2 diet is the key to long term health and survival but it shouldn't be the sole focus of our lives.

 

[Hiitsme]

I don't normal test that often now but yesterday I tried testing a lot. One hour after breakfast was 7.1 but back down after 2 hours. That was my highest reading all day. For me I was happy about that.

 

[Bluetit1802]

my last test there was no difference from 1 to 2 hrs. but it may depend on the food

Ahhh but were you still on the way up at 1 hour, and on the way down at 2 hours - you would never know unless you tested at about 90 minutes. My 1hr and 2hr readings are always much the same, but my 90 minute reading is sometimes much higher after my main meal.

 

[hankjam]

For me to does not appear to be so straight forward. There are times when I will have eaten nothing for 7 hours before dinner and when I test I can get anything from 3.8 to 5.6 and I have often seen a late afternoon dip, which will then rise before dinner. Liver dump or a response to preparing food... I've given up trying to guess what my pre-dinner test will be.

@Kristin251 I would be interested to know what you eat and how often you test to ensure your numbers are in the normal range.Excuse the question, where are you on the weight item. For myself, I've lost all I need and am struggling to maintain my current weight with what I eat and feel I don't need to eat more but might need to investigate what else I could/can eat without undoing my progress.

 

[Kristin251]

For me to does not appear to be so straight forward. There are times when I will have eaten nothing for 7 hours before dinner and when I test I can get anything from 3.8 to 5.6 and I have often seen a late afternoon dip, which will then rise before dinner. Liver dump or a response to preparing food... I've given up trying to guess what my pre-dinner test will be.

@Kristin251 I would be interested to know what you eat and how often you test to ensure your numbers are in the normal range.Excuse the question, where are you on the weight item. For myself, I've lost all I need and am struggling to maintain my current weight with what I eat and feel I don't need to eat more but might need to investigate what else I could/can eat without undoing my progress.

It is normal to have some fluctuations throughout the day based on activity, stress etc. It used to bug me too. But usually food will actually bring it down. When I was T2 if I was a little high after activity or before bed I would have a SMALL fat snack like 4 or 5 nuts or a celry stick ( not stalk) and it would be enough to elicit an insulin response and lower me.

As far as how often I test and what j eat :
Wake up 7 or7:30. Test BF. Piece of Boston lettuce, 1 slice deli turkey mustard and mayo and 2 or 3 pieces celery. I also make guacamole for the day so I have a little bowl scrapings. I can't eat much for BF or I will spike no matter what it is. I take 1/2 unit insulin with BF
Occasionally i test between BF and lunch but unused to everyday and I was always in good range.
3 test. Lunch . Usually 2 oz guac, 1-1.5 ounces protein on a lettuce wrap. Celery radish ( protein is usually turkey chicken or salmon)
5 test. Before dinner wine or cocktail. I test because if I am on the low side I need a snack
6:30 test. Dinner. 2-3 oz protein and either wrap or salad or steamed veg but not both. More guac
Bed 10:30 test.
I take 1/2 unit insulin with all 3 meals and 1 lantus before bed. Occasionally none.
Last night I was 70 before bed and took no insulin and this mornings fasting was 80.
I am 5'8 and 126. I don't need to lose weight but wouldn't mind losing 2 pounds. Haha.

I am not sure what you are eating of course but I struggled terribly to maintain weight pre DX and failed. Hence T1 DX. If I wanted to gain weight now I would up fat and / or protein. Avocados are a great diabetic food. They don't effect my bs at all except in a positive way. I don't like to over eat protein because I had kidney stones last year and excess protein is no good anyway.
Macadamia nuts are another great fat. Personally I like to keep saturated fats low but not all do.

I used to be a chronic OCD tester and I found my 3 meals and insulin doses that consistently work for me so I don't test a lot in between anymore unless I feel weird. I found meals that keep me steady with no post meal spikes or drops. For me guacamole is magical for this. Occasionally I have a bit of a spike after BF and there is no food combo that stops this but it is only occasionally. I eat the same macros at every meal. Some would say tedious and boring but it's not for me. I love my food and it suites me, weight, bs, energy etc. Takes a lot of stress out of my day.

Hope this helps

 

[hankjam]

It is normal to have some fluctuations throughout the day based on activity, stress etc. It used to bug me too. But usually food will actually bring it down. When I was T2 if I was a little high after activity or before bed I would have a SMALL fat snack like 4 or 5 nuts or a celry stick ( not stalk) and it would be enough to elicit an insulin response and lower me.

As far as how often I test and what j eat :
Wake up 7 or7:30. Test BF. Piece of Boston lettuce, 1 slice deli turkey mustard and mayo and 2 or 3 pieces celery. I also make guacamole for the day so I have a little bowl scrapings. I can't eat much for BF or I will spike no matter what it is. I take 1/2 unit insulin with BF
Occasionally i test between BF and lunch but unused to everyday and I was always in good range.
3 test. Lunch . Usually 2 oz guac, 1-1.5 ounces protein on a lettuce wrap. Celery radish ( protein is usually turkey chicken or salmon)
5 test. Before dinner wine or cocktail. I test because if I am on the low side I need a snack
6:30 test. Dinner. 2-3 oz protein and either wrap or salad or steamed veg but not both. More guac
Bed 10:30 test.
I take 1/2 unit insulin with all 3 meals and 1 lantus before bed. Occasionally none.
Last night I was 70 before bed and took no insulin and this mornings fasting was 80.
I am 5'8 and 126. I don't need to lose weight but wouldn't mind losing 2 pounds. Haha.

I am not sure what you are eating of course but I struggled terribly to maintain weight pre DX and failed. Hence T1 DX. If I wanted to gain weight now I would up fat and / or protein. Avocados are a great diabetic food. They don't effect my bs at all except in a positive way. I don't like to over eat protein because I had kidney stones last year and excess protein is no good anyway.
Macadamia nuts are another great fat. Personally I like to keep saturated fats low but not all do.

I used to be a chronic OCD tester and I found my 3 meals and insulin doses that consistently work for me so I don't test a lot in between anymore unless I feel weird. I found meals that keep me steady with no post meal spikes or drops. For me guacamole is magical for this. Occasionally I have a bit of a spike after BF and there is no food combo that stops this but it is only occasionally. I eat the same macros at every meal. Some would say tedious and boring but it's not for me. I love my food and it suites me, weight, bs, energy etc. Takes a lot of stress out of my day.

Hope this helps

Hi @Kristin251 thanks for taking the time to respond to my note in such detail. I didn't write earlier as my screen at work does odd things to the forum pages... cuts most posts down to 3 lines and it is tricky to get the full message.
I should say I'm not on any meds yet and your note is probably the most I've read relating to food and insulin. Sorry to say, I don't actually know what a lantus is, seen it mentioned a lot of times, never looked it up. I appreciate that you use it as a support and not a crutch, in that you seem to eat nothing that is going to challenge your dose, which must take some will power...
I tend to eat very similar things for breakfast, either celery, olives, cheese and nuts or yogurt and nuts. Lunch is soup, cauli/cheese, chicken or mushroom, omelettes at weekend. Dinner tends to be chicken/lamb/pork/beef with salad and veg with sauerkraut. One avocado a day with lots of olive oil and garlic, raw. BF probably the smallest and dinner the biggest, hardly ever snack between meals and that is something I wonder about... snacking through out the day might flatten my BGs but never been to ready to try it. Tend to test first thing, before and after evening meals. Record everything, values between 6 and 7 are blue and above 7 they get red... 95% of my readings have been less than 7.

may have drifted from the OP..
Wish you well. Hj