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Article in today's Times

desidiabulum

Well-Known Member
Messages
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Hi 'diabetic activists',
There's an article in today's Times on low carb and diabetics -- worth a read, and even mentions the forum. I've read the original, but I can't get the electronic link to work -- perhaps someone else can manage it?
 
You have to pay to access the Times online. Probably why the link will not work.
 
Was looking forward to reading this article too.
I'm intrigued to know if Low carbing was being shown in a more positive light rather than the usual 'Atkins bashing' that I've seen recently in the media.
 
Sorry -- when I've a moment I will write a summary. It does give a more positive line on low carb - notes how it's supported in Sweden and the USA and their incredulity at NHS guidelines, has a go at the DAFNE course, notes the reservations re heart disease, mentions how even DUK are changing guidelines a bit, and flags the 'diabetic activists' on diabetes.co.uk in a sympathetic light, and talks about the danger of 'false economies'. So overall very positive. Perhaps we are starting to see a bit of momentum building up?
 
desidiabulum said:
has a go at the DAFNE course,

What does it say about the DAFNE course desidiabulum, as Ive only read good comments from T1's about this course?
 
desidiabulum said:
has a go at the DAFNE course,

There is nothing to have a go at regarding the DAFNE course :crazy:
All this course does is show people with type 1 diabetes how to manage their insulin in junction with the amount of carbs eaten, it also shows how to make corrections.(Work out doses and ratios)
This information does NOT tell you to go out and eat anything and everything under the sun.
How people use the information which they are given is obviously up to them.
 
I entirely agree that there is nothing wrong with the DAFNE course in itself -- the complaint in the article is when it is combined with NHS guidelines on diet. The article begins with a British T1 diabetic (diagnosed for 20 yrs) going to the US and asking for a fresh supply on insulin, at which point his doctor says that his diet is poison. The diabetic reports that when he took the DAFNE course he was told that he could eat what he wanted as long as he counted the carbs so knew the required amount of insulin (obviously) but was then told that 60% of his diet should be carbs, that he should eat white rice and pasta, etc. His sugar levels improved during the course but later he still had big hypos and his levels rose, eyesight deteriorated etc. After beginning his low card diet in NY his health has been transformed, he needs only a fraction of the insulin he was using before, etc. His NHS consultant was anxious that the new diet might be raising his cholesterol levels, but they hadn't risen.
The rest of the article cites Swedish resesarch on benefits of low carb, the American Diabetes Association changing its recommendation to low carb in 2008, cites 'diabetic activists' including this forum as warning that for some people even low-GI carbs are absorbed too quickly, and criticising the NHS guidelines of 225-300g carbs a day. The article then warns about research at Warwick Medical School that high-fat meals lead to a large amount of gut-derived bacteria in the blood, and this is higher in diabetics due to a 'leaky gut', which can trigger inflammatory reactions leading to heart disease..
It then notes Diabetes UK now saying a low carb diet (defined as less than 45% carbs in diet) 'may be suitable for a year', citing a BDA spokesman saying that there is only enough good research evidence to go that far.
 
I'm at home killing time while the plumber replaces my boiler.
Here, in serial form, is the Times article.

Part One :


When Martin Wilson, 46, moved from London to New York last year, he saw an American doctor to get a fresh supply of insulin for his diabetes.
"The doctor asked about my diet. When I told him, his initial reaction was that I was joking," says the father of two."He was astonished. He said that, to diabetics, my diet was poison."
The surprising fact is that Milton's food regime had been taught to him on an NHS course.. The incident is emblematic of a growing controversy over the health service's diet advice for diabetics. At the heart of this dispute lies widely differing beliefs about carbohydrates. The NHS course commends them - but the American approach says that diabetics should shun carbs whenever possible.
For healthy people with everyday food habits, the difference might sound like diet-faddism. But for people with type 1 or type 2 diabetes, it may make the difference between health and disability, even premature death.
Indeed, Milton says that his new American-style diet has granted him a new lease of life.
Finding the right diet may help to contain Britain's fast-growing diabetes epidemic. In the UK 3.8 million people have diabetes and 7 million are at risk of developing it.
Milton, a civil servant, was diagnosed almost twenty years ago with type 1 diabetes. He was given insulin pens with which to inject himself after every meal,, and once at night.
However he never managed to control hos blood-sugar levels consistently. "I have suffered a couple of big hypoglycemic attacks - seizures and fits - at night when I was asleep. It was very unpleasant for my wife," he says. "At the time I was not trying any special diets, only avoiding sweet foods. I was given very little guidancw. I felt pretty much at sea."

To be followed ...
 
desidiabulum said:
I entirely agree that there is nothing wrong with the DAFNE course in itself

I kind of agree but the course itself is called Dose Adjustment For Normal Eating. The 'normal eating' bit is the problem; the implication is that you can just go on with your 'healthy diet' and just match insulin to carbs.

I think the reality is that that is poor advice; when I was diagnosed, back in the last century*, I had a specific carbohydrate regime set out that I had to eat for each meal. So, the implication was the carbs had to be measured and managed, whereas the change to 'eat what you like' implies they don't really matter; just take insulin to cover that. The recent audit of Type 1's hitting target HbA1c's speaks to how difficult it is to do that in reality. It's much much easier to cut carbs down as much as possible.

Dillinger

*I feel very old.
 
My friend's husband is Type 1, their teenage son has recently been diagnosed as Type 1. For both of them they have been told to adjust their insulin to a normal healthy diet of 50% carbs.

In fact, they pity me because, not being on insulin, I have only carb control as a way of controlling my blood sugars so I cant have cake and sweets.

so the message to eat what you want and adjust your insulin is still being given to new insulin users, as the son only went on his DAFNE course last month, prior to being considered for a pump.
 
Times article Part Two (of two) (just found out I could copy and paste if I opened the Times webpage in a certain way) :

Then, five years ago, specialists at St Thomas' Hospital, London, invited him to a week-long NHS-funded diet course conducted by the diabetes patient education program DAFNE (Dose Adjustment For Normal Eating.) It was here that he was taught the diet regime that shocked his US doctor.
"I was told that I could eat what I wanted, so long as I counted the carbs on my plate. This would enable me to work out my requirement for injected insulin," Milton said. Injected insulin must be used by diabetics to to keep blood-sugar levels within healthy limits. Blood sugar-levels are particularly raised by carbohydrates, which the body turns into glucose. Insulin works by stimulating the cells within the body to take up the glucose in the blood.
DAFNE is offered at more than 140 diabetes clinics in the UK and Ireland, and is considered part of routine care for type 1 diabetes. The philosophy of its teaching is that, rather than taking a fixed daily dose of insulin and having to stick to a diet that matches it, patients can rate their own meals for carbohydrate content and then adjust their insulin doses to match.
“I was told that 60 per cent of my diet should be comprised of carbs. I was encouraged to eat pasta and white rice. These were the things to measure,” Milton says. “My blood levels improved generally during the course. But later I still had big hypos and my overall control did not get better.” In fact, Milton’s condition was worsening. His blood-sugar levels were generally too high and his eyesight was starting to show signs of deterioration. Then, last year, he moved to New York and met the doctor who placed him on a different regime. “He told me to cut down as many carbs as possible and fill up with salads and greens.”
Milton was sceptical, but decided to try. He began a low-carb regime with no rice or pasta. Instead, he has salad for lunch, with other meals comprising vegetables, nuts and cheese. Since then, he says, his health has been transformed. “The doctor must be right. If you reduce your carbs, you can reduce the amount of insulin you take to balance it. I noticed that very quickly I was using a fraction of the insulin I had needed.”
Still, Milton worried if there was anything wrong with the regime. The most publicised concern is that it may dangerously raise cholesterol levels, as it relies on fat such as cheese for energy to compensate for the lack of carbohydrates. He e-mailed his NHS consultant, who insisted on seeing him when he visited Britain in February. Tests showed an unprecedented improvement in Milton’s blood-glucose levels. His weight was far healthier too — down more than 33lb, to 14st. What’s more, his blood cholesterol levels had not risen.
Medical research increasingly supports low-carb diets fordiabetes sufferers. A four-year study of 48 people with type 1 diabetes who followed a low-carb diet found a lasting improvement in the 24 who managed to stick to the regime. The Swedish research was published in the respected journal Diabetology & Metabolic Syndrome.
The effects of low-carb diets have been studied more extensively in type 2 diabetes. In May, a two-year study at Sweden’s Linköping University showed that low-carb,
high-fat diets may have a better effect on blood-sugar levels than high-carb diets. It compared 61 patients on either a low-carb, high-fat diet, or a high-carb, low-fat diet. It found a “clear improvement” in the blood-sugar levels of the low-carb patients within six months of starting the diet. Patients were able, on average, to drop their insulin doses by a third, the study in the journal Diabetologia said. The cholesterol levels of the patients improved, with an increase in their average level of “good” HDL cholesterol. No such improvements were seen in the high-carb, low-fat group.
Fredrik Nystrom, a professor of medicine, who co-authored the study, said: “You could ask yourself if it really is good to recommend a low-fat diet to patients with diabetes.”
In America, opinions have already swayed towards low carbs. The American Diabetes Association changed its advice on low-carb diets in 2008. It now considers them to be an effective treatment for short-term weight loss among obese people suffering from type 2 diabetes.
So why does the NHS persist with recommending high-carb, low-fat diets? The concern is that people with diabetes are known to have an increased risk of heart disease — and the high fats in low-carb diets are feared to worsen this. Instead, the Department of Health recommends that diabetics try to eat low-GI (glycaemic index) carbs such as brown rice and wholemeal grains, which are turned more slowly into sugars by the body, and thus cause fewer “spikes” in blood-glucose.
But “diabetic activists” such as the online community, via diabetes.co.uk,
are critical of this approach. “Even low-GI carbohydrates are absorbed too quickly for many people with type 2 diabetes to prevent high post-meal blood sugar levels,” it says. “Department of Health guidelines are yet to take this into consideration, as they recommend 225g to 300g of carbohydrate a day. Why are the guidelines set as they are?” But there may indeed be some cause for caution. In March, researchers from Warwick Medical School warned that high fat intake may provoke inf lammation in diabetics’ arteries that can cause heart disease.
Dr Alison Harte, a University of Warwick research fellow, told a Society for Endocrinology conference that her studies showed how high-fat meals led to a large amount of gut-derived bacteria in the blood — and this was higher in diabetics, due to a “leaky gut”.“This creates conditions within the body that trigger inf lammatory reactions which ultimately can cause a number of conditions such as heart disease,” she explained.
As a result of such conf licting evidence, British experts are giving low-carb regimes only a cautious welcome. Last year, Diabetes UK changed its advice for people with type 2 diabetes to say that a low-carb diet where less than 45 per cent of calories come from carbohydrates “may be suitable for a year”. Other expert organisations are following suit.
Why only a year? Chris Cheyette, a dietitian at King’s College Hospital and a spokesman for the British Dietetic Association, says: “We only have good enough research evidence to say that it is safe to spend a year on low carbs.”
Mr Cheyette adds that the best option for diabetics considering low-carb diets is to consult a dietitian. The only problem is that NHS dietetic services are struggling to keep up with demand from Britain’s ever-growing diabetic population. The waiting lists for advice are, as a result, constantly growing. “There simply are not enough of us dietitians out there,” he says.
 
Looks like things are slowly beginning to move. Some desperate clinging on with the fingertips action from DUK with the "safe for a year" nonsense. Absolutely great that people are looking at this site and us "activists". Keep it up people we are making a difference!

In my opinion perhaps Chris Cheyette (spokesman for the British Dietetic Association) should start to realise that his profession is seen to be a major part of the problem and that the last thing many of us want to do is go see one of his dietitians. When he and his colleagues stop recommending regimes that actually harm diet only T2's then perhaps I might want to listen to him but at the moment I'll continue taking my advice from the Swedes and the Americans thanks.
 
tree-peony said:
all very encouraging stuff :)

It is indeed :) *waves at lurking journalists*

Many thanks to desidiabulum and librarising for bringing the article here for us.
 
Martin Wilson says: “I was told that 60 per cent of my diet should be comprised of carbs. I was encouraged to eat pasta and white rice.''


Not wanting to comment on if Mr Wilson was indeed told to eat 60% of his diet with carbs on DAFNE, however for those who've not done the course here is what the handbook says when discussing carbohydrates:

'The DAFNE approach to taking insulin aims to provide insulin in a way that is closer to the natural production of insulin in someone without diabetes. It is a more flexible approach than has been recommended previously. It will enable you to eat what you want, as well as not having to eat when you do not want to, while keeping control of your blood glucose.'

(The above taken from page 15)......also:

'Foods that contain carbohydrates need to be matched accurately with quick-acting insulin if you are to achieve good blood glucose control. You can choose to eat as little or as much carbohydrate as you want, so long as it is matched by quick-acting insulin.'

(The above taken from page 16.)....also:

'The DAFNE approach aims to help you to manage your blood glucose control by matching insulin to the carbohydrate foods you choose to eat. This, and not healthy eating is the main consideration when attempting to achieve normal/near-normal blood glucose levels. Healthy eating becomes a personal choice.'

(Also taken from page 16)


Having completed the DAFNE course myself in 2009 I was eating between 90-120g of carbs a day, a lad sat next to me was consuming around 150g and not once was this an issue with the DAFNE nurses or Dietitian, the only time the mention of daily carbs was brought up was during the Questions & Answer session with the Endo, he was asked what the minimum safe carb level should ideally be......to this he replied 130g a day.

The overwhelming support of DAFNE on this and other forums over the years speaks louder than any words, perhaps Mr Wilson needs to address his grievance to the person/persons who told him to eat 60% of his diet from carbs.
 
didie said:
tree-peony said:
all very encouraging stuff :)

It is indeed :) *waves at lurking journalists*

Many thanks to desidiabulum and librarising for bringing the article here for us.


+1
Thanks for reproducing the article so we can all share it.
Great news that it is getting in the national press......keep up the activist action folks!! :clap:

Regards
Angie
 
librarising said:
I'm at home killing time while the plumber replaces my boiler.
Here, in serial form, is the Times article.

Part One :


When Martin Wilson, 46, moved from London to New York last year, he saw an American doctor to get a fresh supply of insulin for his diabetes.
"The doctor asked about my diet. When I told him, his initial reaction was that I was joking," says the father of two."He was astonished. He said that, to diabetics, my diet was poison."
The surprising fact is that Milton's food regime had been taught to him on an NHS course.. The incident is emblematic of a growing controversy over the health service's diet advice for diabetics. At the heart of this dispute lies widely differing beliefs about carbohydrates. The NHS course commends them - but the American approach says that diabetics should shun carbs whenever possible.
To be followed ...

Had to laugh when I read this part of the article.
I honestly think MW either didn't understand what he was taught or he didn't want to understand.
Did the author also have a look around some of the American based forums? What they say does not tally with what the authors claims.
Basic line for control is eat what suits your own personal needs. Not what suits someone else we are all different.
 
CarbsRok said:
Had to laugh when I read this part of the article.
I honestly think MW either didn't understand what he was taught or he didn't want to understand.
Did the author also have a look around some of the American based forums? What they say does not tally with what the authors claims.
Basic line for control is eat what suits your own personal needs. Not what suits someone else we are all different.

Do you think that the "50% carbohydrate" dietary advice doled out by the NHS/DUK is "tailored or our own personal needs". Does it respect the fact that "we are all different"?

We are indeed "all different". However, as diabetics, we are also "all the same" in that we have all have variously broken endocrine systems that mean that we are all, to a certain degree, unable to tolerate dietary carbohydrate. Some of us are able to mitigate the effects of these carbohydrates using medication or by slavishly choosing special types of carbs, but the fact remains, that for the vast majority of us, that a one-size fits all carbohydrate diet promoted by the authorities, consists mainly of the one thing most of us cannot eat.
 
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