Atkins Horror!

Dillinger

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sterling said:
The critical factors that will cause death from diabetes are high cholesterol, high blood pressure, high blood glucose, and smoking.

I'd order that list the other way around; smoking is a mistake across the board really, but the key dysfunctional metabolic process for diabetics is not blood pressure or cholesterol it is elevated blood glucose. If you take care of that then the others will take care of themselves* and how do you do that? Drop the carbs like a packet of Capstan Non-Filters.

Best

Dillinger

* cholesterol being the exception - high cholesterol is only a problem if you have familial hyperlipidemia (in my humble but correct opinion). http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3303886/
 

RoyG

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Hmmm and the conclusion to this IS after me just doing battle with my dietitian this morning and beating her into submission to the point She asked me to please Take the Diabetes eating for health leaflet because she has to comply with NHS guidelines! Oh not that you need Mr G? I come back to this uprising, We are now saying I have to go back and say Sorry!! Sorry? but I got it wrong! and the charts and graphs I have just waived at you with such convition mean nothing along with my rantings of the Inuet Eskimos, Red Indians, and Masshi Warriors, and also my good BS levels, lowering Blood pressure and general health? because I am having a heat attack in the next 2 years? What, where. and all because of the Daily Mail???? confused possibly, Worried No, as Freddy once said in his song Who wants to live forever. Just hurry with those results borofergie it's all hinging on you now :lol: :lol: :lol:
 

Grazer

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Dillinger said:
I'd order that list the other way around; smoking is a mistake across the board really, but the key dysfunctional metabolic process for diabetics is not blood pressure or cholesterol it is elevated blood glucose. If you take care of that then the others will take care of themselves

+100 dillinger!
EXACTLY my philosophy. I concentrated on diet and exercise purely to get the BG results i wanted, and treated everything else with disdain. Didn't know the science of fats and proteins then, didn't care. Just wanted my BGs at a level I wanted. To do that, i worked out I needed less of one thing (carbs) and replaced them with more of another (fat and protein) And what happened as a side effect? With no change in meds?
BP went from 155/86 to 118/66
Total cholesterol went from 5.5 to 3.8
BMI went from 25 to 22 quickly then stabilised.
HbA1c went to 5.9 then 5.7 as this was going on.

Look after BGs, the rest will take care of itself. Not sure what fat and protein will do to me long term, but i DO know what elevated Bgs will do.
 

noblehead

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The Independent has a far better write-up than that of the Daily Mail, here's an abstract from the article::


An unexpected rise in population cholesterol followed an increase in fat consumption in 2004, reversing earlier trends.

At the same time there was an explosion in the popularity of low carbohydrate/high fat (LCHF) diets in Sweden. The diets focus on cutting out sugar and starch while upping intake of fats, including saturated fat.

Its proponents, such as Dr Annika Dahlqvist, who is credited with starting the Swedish craze, argue that it helps maintain normal weight and blood sugar while freeing people to eat their favourite foods.

A poll last year suggested that a quarter of Swedes had at least partly adopted an LCHF diet. Around 5% had taken it up seriously, leading the DietDoctor website to hail a "Swedish low carb revolution". There were even reports of stores running out of butter due to increasing demand.

The new study was launched in 1986 after concerns about the high incidence of heart disease in northern Sweden.

Scientists analysed data on food and nutrient intake, body weight, height and cholesterol levels compiled from more than 140,000 measurements and questionnaires between 1986 and 2010.

The results showed an initial reduction in fat consumption and cholesterol levels throughout the 1990s. This coincided with the nationwide introduction of an education and food labelling programme aimed at improving diet and health. The Vasterbotten Intervention Programme (VIP) continues to this day.

After 2004, there was an unexpected change. Levels of total and saturated fat intake began to increase until they were higher than they were in 1986.

Blood cholesterol levels remained roughly unaltered between 2002 and 2007, but then showed a sharp rise.

In 2010 the average cholesterol level for men was around 5.5 millimoles per litre of blood, and for women slightly less. This was despite a significant increase in the number of people taking cholesterol-lowering drugs.

In earlier years, cholesterol levels had declined from a peak of more than six millimoles in 1986.

Over the whole 25-year period there was no sign that dieting of any kind helped people lose weight. Average body mass index (BMI), a measurement relating weight and height, showed a consistent rise in both men and women.

Professor Ingegerd Johansson, from the University of Umea, who led the research published in Nutrition Journal, said: "The association between nutrition and health is complex. It involves specific food components, interactions among those food components, and interactions with genetic factors and individual needs.

"While low carbohydrate/high fat diets may help short-term weight loss, these results of this Swedish study demonstrate that long-term weight loss is not maintained and that this diet increases blood cholesterol, which has a major impact on risk of cardiovascular disease."

In their paper, the researchers said the marked increase in cholesterol levels after 2007 was "a deep concern".

They added: "After 2004 fat intake increased, especially saturated fat and butter-based spread for bread and butter for cooking.

"Supportive opinions in media for high-fat diets seem to have had an impact on consumer behaviours. Initially beneficial and thereafter deleterious changes in blood cholesterol paralleled these trends in food selection, whereas a claimed weight reduction by high-fat diets was not seen in the most recent years.

"In contrast, BMI increased continuously over the 25-year period. These changes in risk factors may have important effects on primary and secondary prevention of CVD (cardiovascular disease
 

xyzzy

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RoyG said:
Just hurry with those results borofergie it's all hinging on you now :lol: :lol: :lol:

I get another load of blood taken next week so I also have a big Swedish LCHF interest coming up. The first 3 months of low carb normalised my cholesterol levels for the first time in 3 years so I'm wondering what the second 3 months will do.

The interesting thing to me is in that first 3 months I did the same as Grazer just posted which was to not give a **** what I ate except to totally focus on reducing carbs to normalise my BG's. Even with randomly selecting fats I still got far better cholesterol levels than I had in years. In this second 3 months I've tried a bit more targeted approach by trying to stick more to the true LCHF spirit rather than just not really caring where the fat came from so we shall see.
 

borofergie

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noblehead said:
The Independent has a far better write-up than that of the Daily Mail, here's an abstract from the article::

It's not really any better, it doesn't actually address the results of the study.
 

borofergie

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RoyG said:
Just hurry with those results borofergie it's all hinging on you now :lol: :lol: :lol:

Ha, ha. Not really, just like in STAR-WARS, there is another hope.

My Low-Carb hero (the person whose diet closely matches my own) just posted her perfect results here:
viewtopic.php?t=30297&p=284305#p284305
 

Sid Bonkers

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xyzzy said:
Sid Bonkers said:
Who is eating a high carb diet exactly, I know I'm not?

Yes you tell us you eat 100g a day 22% LOW carbohydrate diet but NEVER tell the gentle forum readers what the other 78% of your diet consists of. As the saying goes "I think we should be told."

To me there is only one conclusion .... that you yourself are following a LCHF diet like the Swedes recommend .... so why are you so opposed to a diet that you yourself would seem to follow?

Look I dont know how many times I need to say this for it to sink in I am cautious about the saturated fat I eat, I am not opposed to anything at all certainly not a low carb diet, all I am saying is I am cautious about the saturated fat I eat as I was told to be cautious of it by my cardiologist. Now some people here believe that cardiologists have all got it wrong and that saturated fats are in fact good for you, I do not subscribe to that theory, thats it, no argument what so ever from me so please stop putting words into my mouth.

For the record I have no idea what percentages of anything I eat but I can tell you, once again, that the dietician I saw was happy with my diet/food diary but did say that in her opinion I should eat more oily fish, but I dont because I dont happen to like oily fish. There, I do hope that is all right with you?
 

xyzzy

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This says it all really...

http://www.dietdoctor.com/the-swedish-diet-revolution-and-the-resulting-hysteria

It’s of course likely that eating more fat may have increased the total cholesterol in the population somewhat. But it also increases HDL (good) cholesterol, which statistically is highly protective. Of course, ignoring HDL is par for the course when fear-mongering about cholesterol.

More importantly there are no signs that the number of heart attacks are increasing in Sweden. We seem to be just as healthy, even as the (good) cholesterol “surges”. As the years go by that will be harder and harder to explain away.

Swedes are already among the slimmest people in Europe, and according to the latest statistics the obesity epidemic is slowing to a crawl here. Meanwhile the United Kingdom, where the fear of fat is as strong as ever, has become the fattest country in Europe. Coincidence?
 

Grazer

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borofergie said:
RoyG said:
Just hurry with those results borofergie it's all hinging on you now :lol: :lol: :lol:

Ha, ha. Not really, just like in STAR-WARS, there is another hope.

My Low-Carb hero (the person whose diet closely matches my own) just posted her perfect results here:
viewtopic.php?t=30297&p=284305#p284305

So now we want the straight shoot-out between you and Wiflib! Who gets the LCHF gold star for outstanding results!
 

noblehead

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Thank the Lord for dietdoctor.......now pass me that butter! :wink:
 

wiflib

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I think we will find out shortly, won't we Stephen. Go on, you know you want to.

wiflib
 

Grazer

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xyzzy said:
Meanwhile the United Kingdom, where the fear of fat is as strong as ever, has become the fattest country in Europe.
Good post xyzzy. Nice to know we're winning something!
 

borofergie

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Grazer said:
So now we want the straight shoot-out between you and Wiflib! Who gets the LCHF gold star for outstanding results!

She does, she beat me on almost every score:
HbA1c=4.9%
Total = 3.6
HDL = 0.9
Trigs = 0.99
LDL = 2.2
Total/HDL = 3.6

I'm glad, because wiflib is my low-carb hero.

As far as I know, me and Lib are the only two that religiously follow Bernstein at <30g a day. Do you think it's a coincidence that our results are so good?

I eat over 80% of my calories as fat, as much of it as possible as saturated fat. I'd be surprised if wiflib was much different.

Do we still think that eating saturated fat is bad for your blood lipid profile.

No statins for me today.
 

noblehead

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borofergie said:
As far as I know, me and Lib are the only two that religiously follow Bernstein at <30g a day. Do you think it's a coincidence that our results are so good?


No your wrong Stephen as Dillinger also follows a strict Bernstein diet and has done for several years, perhaps he may post his cholesterol results also so you can all compare.
 

borofergie

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noblehead said:
borofergie said:
As far as I know, me and Lib are the only two that religiously follow Bernstein at <30g a day. Do you think it's a coincidence that our results are so good?

No your wrong Stephen as Dillinger also follows a strict Bernstein diet and has done for several years, perhaps he may post his cholesterol results also so you can all compare.

That's true too. I was forgetting my T1 Low-Carb/Anchorman idol Dillinger. His HbA1c as a T1 blows the socks off mine.
 

Grazer

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What a result Stephen! You and wiflib go to the top of the class. Hard to argue against LCHF now! Just haven't got the drive to do it myself, but so well done you two!
 

noblehead

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borofergie said:
That's true too. I was forgetting my T1 Low-Carb/Anchorman idol Dillinger. His HbA1c as a T1 blows the socks off mine.


How could you forget :shock:
 

wiflib

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Your diet and my diet are almost identical BF. The majority of my calories are from fat, the rest from protein and vegetables. I think the only reason you are ever so slightly higher is that
1. you are bloke
and
2. I bet you get some dumping with your running.

I'm faaaar to lazy to get off my bony **** and do anything like organised sport.

wiflib