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Benfotiamine

Discussion in 'Alternative Treatments' started by Soundgen, Jul 23, 2009.

  1. Soundgen

    Soundgen · Well-Known Member

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    "Re: Benfotiamine

    Sent: Today, 2:16 pm
    From: Patch
    To: Soundgen
    Cool - I just bought some 250mg (x120) . Will I definitely need the methylB12 to get the full benefit?

    Cheers,
    -Pat. "


    Re: Benfotiamine

    Sent: less than a minute ago
    From: Soundgen
    To: Patch
    if you have neuropathy , then I think methyl B12 should probably be used at least until the pins and needles go , by then there should be enough thiamine in your system to enable you body to covert B12 to methyl B12 itself

    Hope this helsp

    Regards

    Mike
     
  2. Soundgen

    Soundgen · Well-Known Member

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    "Re: Benfotiamine

    Postby howie on Today, 10:00 am
    hey,

    found this link too. i'm not against the idea of a thiamine deficiency in diabetics but i'm doubting the capacity of benfotiamine to make up for it. i'm just worried that it's not as effective as they advertise as i can't find any trials in humans. apparently in the lab rat trials the benfotiamine wasn't received orally or something it was under some 'special conditions'.

    http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKL1148 ... dChannel=0 "

    Tests in Humans of Benfotiamine uptake from the references cited in the original article that Reuters reported on

    class="abstitle"1: Ann Nutr Metab. 1991;35(5):292-6.Links
    Bioavailability assessment of the lipophilic benfotiamine as compared to a water-soluble thiamin derivative.
    Bitsch R, Wolf M, Möller J, Heuzeroth L, Grüneklee D.
    FB 6 - Home Economics, Section Nutritional Science, University Paderborn, FRG.
    The bioequivalence of thiamin in 2 therapeutically used preparations was tested in 10 healthy young men. Thiamin was orally administered either as lipophilic benfotiamine or as water-soluble thiamin mononitrate. Biokinetic data, measured as area under the curve and maximal concentration in plasma and hemolysate after ingestion, demonstrated a significantly improved bioavailability from the lipophilic derivative despite an ingested dose of only 40% as compared with the water-soluble salt. A superior cellular efficacy of benfotiamine was also concluded from the short-term stimulation of the thiamin-dependent transketolase activity in erythrocytes.



    class="abstitle"1: Int J Clin Pharmacol Ther. 1998 Apr;36(4):216-21.Links
    Comparative bioavailability of various thiamine derivatives after oral administration.
    Greb A, Bitsch R.
    Department of Human Nutrition, Institute of Nutrition and Environment, Friedrich Schiller University, Jena, Germany.
    In a multiple change-over study the bioequivalence of 3 thiamine preparations, used therapeutically as neurotropic agents for the treatment of polyneuropathies, was tested in a collective of 7 volunteers. After ingestion of a single dose of either 100 mg benfotiamin CS-benzoylthiamine-o-monophosphate), fursultiamin (thiamintetrahydrofurfuryldisulfide) or thiaminedisulfide, thiamine blood levels were analyzed for a 10-hour period. Thiamine was measured by HPLC after precolumn derivatization to thiochrome. The maximal thiamine concentration Cmax and its time (tmax) in plasma and hemolysate, the area under concentration time curve (AUC), and thiamine excretion in 24-hour urine were assessed as criteria of bioavailability. Additionally the erythrocytic transketolase activity (ETK) and alphaETK were determined as indicators of the cellular thiamine availability. After benfotiamin ingestion a more rapid and earlier increase of thiamine in plasma and hemolysate was observed in contrast to fursultiamin and the disulfide. All biokinetic data demonstrated a significantly improved thiamine bioavailability from benfotiamin compared with the other preparations. The lowest bioavailability was detected with thiamindisulfide. From our results it can be concluded that oral administration of benfotiamin is best suitable for therapeutical purposes owing to its excellent absorption characteristics.





    class="abstitle"1: Int J Clin Pharmacol Ther. 1996 Feb;34(2):47-50.Links
    Pharmacokinetics of thiamine derivatives especially of benfotiamine.
    Loew D.
    Wuppertal, Germany.
    Pharmacokinetic data of orally administered lipid-soluble thiamine analogues like benfotiamine are reviewed and assessed. It is quite clear that benfotiamine is absorbed much more better than water-soluble thiamine salts: maximum plasma levels of thiamine are about 5 times higher after benfotiamine, the bioavailability is at maximum about 3.6 times as high as that of thiamine hydrochloride and better than other lipophilic thiamine derivates. The physiological activity (alphaETK) increased only after benfotiamine was given. Due to its excellent pharmacokinetic profile benfotiamine should be preferred in treatment of relevant indications.
     
  3. howie

    howie · Well-Known Member

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    cheers for those, why the hell aren't we all getting this prescribed to our own individual requirements on the NHS? i'm hoping it's just because its a recent discovery about our 'deficiency' and it's in the pipeline.

    i have no complications only diagnosed few months ago. is there a recommended dosage for a diabetic? or is everyone's deficiency too variable?

    defo gonna order some, hope it's not too pricey!

    all best,
    howie
     
  4. Soundgen

    Soundgen · Well-Known Member

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    I think the reason doctors may not prescribe it is probably because it is not on the NICE list , i visited the NICE site and searched for benfotiamine and ... Nothing !

    I started at a very high level 4 x 250mgs a day , but you can buy 80 mg tablets which are much cheaper and I'm gradually working down to the 80mg to see if they still work , if you buy the 80mg ones , you should soon see if they are working by doing some blood tests before and 24 hours after taking them to see if blood sugar goes down as it has with me Regards Mike
     
  5. Patch

    Patch Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I like this thread - it's the right way to go for identifyiing WHY each of us has diabetes. I wish the health service would try to establish what it is that causes the sympoms - instead of just trying to treat those sympoms.

    I hope I AM deficient in Thiamine - at least then I'll know that there is a treatment out there for THAT...

    If I'm not deficient in Thiamine, then I'm afraid it's back to the drawing board for his cat...
     
  6. howie

    howie · Well-Known Member

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    it's probably better if you're not thiamine deficient less likely to get complications, but i know what you mean and without the doctors help it's gonna be hard for us to us the right supplements and use them to the right level.

    soundgen, did those studies come from benfotiamine.org ? cos i think they're a bit bias. i'm just finding it hard to believe because cos it's not out there for us already! but here's a theory, i'm not a conspiracist but i spose that Benfotiamine has not been snapped up and by the big drug companies, publicised and back with some cash as a medicine because it's not patentable so not much £££ in it. which is a shame for us, though i imagine it will get there eventually due to studies at warwick uni etc.

    all best,
    howie
     
  7. Soundgen

    Soundgen · Well-Known Member

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    hi there , none of the "facts " I have posted came from the benfotiamine.org site , in fact I hadn't even known of it , it certainly doesn't appear in the first few of google searches ,

    I wonder about deficiencies of the other B vitamins as well , without adequate B1 in our bodies we can't convert ordinary B12 into methyB12 which the body uses , folic acid is also very important and I do know people ( non diabetic ) who have folate deficiency although they eat well .

    B1 is an esential vitamin for the methylation process which produces methyB12 in the body , and then methylB12 is used in folic acid cycles to produuce other methylated products which are important in preventin neuropathy .

    The medical profession seem not to take vitamin deficieny into account ever , I think the the basic stance is that no one with a reasonable diet can be lacking in B vitamins ( and probably others ) , I guess this tends to be true unless you are a vegan , but I am clearly deficient in B1 as my blood glucose level shows

    And big pharma isn't interested in vitamins or indeed herbal remedies they don't make mega bucks
     
  8. Soundgen

    Soundgen · Well-Known Member

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    The last blood sugar levels I posted were 5.6 , 5.2, 7.4 , 6.7, 5.6 , 4.7 , 5.2 ,

    Since then I have reduced my Benfotiamine intake and also stopped taking it again to see the result

    Reducing to 3 x 150 mgms benfotiamine daily gave the following results, blood sugar tested as before 2 hours after the same breakfast were 4.9 , 4.9 , 4.4 , Excellent

    Reducing to 3 x 80 mgms daily gave the following results 7.1 , 6.0 , 4.6 still good , but I didn't feel quite as well , although it was just a feeling and not quantifiable .

    Stopped taking it and the results were , 6.1 , 8.3 , this mornings 8.3 is again one of the highest readings I have had, . With benfotaimine my blood sugar is according to the blue book finger prick chart " non diabetic "

    I have started taking it again and will continue to take it , it takes me back to non diabetic , without diet or additional exercise
     
  9. Soundgen

    Soundgen · Well-Known Member

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    More thiamine / Befotiamine interesting links here

    “AGE accumulation in renal glomeruli, retina, peripheral nerve and plasma proteins is consistent with a role for AGEs in the development of nephropathy, retinopathy and peripheral neuropathy in diabetes. High-dose therapy with thiamine and Benfotiamine suppressed the accumulation of AGEs, and is a novel approach to preventing the development of diabetic complications

    SEE
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1464 ... d_RVDocSum

    “Consequently, the development of incipient diabetic nephropathy, neuropathy and retinopathy were prevented. Both thiamine and Benfotiamine produced other remarkable effects in experimental diabetes: marked reversals of increased diuresis and glucosuria without change in glycemic status. High dose thiamine also corrected dyslipidemia in experimental diabetes--normalizing cholesterol and triglycerides. “

    SEE

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1822 ... d_RVDocSum


    “Lack of thiamine or defects in its intracellular transport can cause a number of severe disorders. Thiamine acts as a coenzyme for transketolase (TK) and for the pyruvate dehydrogenase and alpha-ketoglutarate dehydrogenase complexes, enzymes which play a fundamental role for intracellular glucose metabolism. In particular, TK is able to shift excess fructose-6-phosphate and glycerhaldeyde-3-phosphate from glycolysis into the pentose-phosphate shunt, thus eliminating these potentially damaging metabolites from the cytosol. Diabetes might be considered a thiamine-deficient state,”


    “A thiamine/TK activity deficiency has been described in diabetic patients, the correction of which by thiamine and/or its lipophilic derivative, benfotiamine, has been demonstrated in vitro to counteract the damaging effects of hyperglycaemia on vascular cells”

    SEE

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1858 ... d_RVDocSum
     
  10. Soundgen

    Soundgen · Well-Known Member

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    Blood sugar 4.2 on Sunday so no Benfotaimine after 6.00 am the results were 6.1 Monday morning 24 hours without Benfotiamine and 8.3 Tuesday morning 48 hours without Benfotiamine , began taking it at again at 9.00 am 160 mgms three times a day , result Wednesday morning 4.4 ! 24 hours after restarting !

    Benfotiamine has an immediet effect on my blood sugar levels ,

    In just over 5 weeks my Neuropathy has virtually gone , skin infections clearing up , drowsiness in the afternoon ceased , flatulence and wind decreased ,

    I really wish this was available on prescription as although it would only cost £200 a year and is a price worth paying , I think every diabetic should be able to get it
     
  11. Soundgen

    Soundgen · Well-Known Member

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    "Plasma thiamine concentration was decreased 76% in type 1 diabetic patients and 75% in type 2 diabetic patients"

    "Renal clearance of thiamine was increased 24-fold in type 1 diabetic patients and 16-fold in type 2 diabetic patients£

    http://www.biomedexperts.com/Abstract.b ... ar_disease
     
  12. Soundgen

    Soundgen · Well-Known Member

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    cugila said in an earlier post that Benfotiamine didn't affect his BG

    When I was diagnosed as having type 2 recently my BG on a Glucose tolerance test was 12.6 ! , I immediately started Benfotiamine as soon as I knew i had gone over , when I later had a blood test and an HbA1c it was 6.2 ! I wish someone else newly diagnosed would give ordinary B1 a try and if no improvement then Benfotaimine as it seems to offer such promise

    comment from Cugila or an expert ? please
     
  13. cugila

    cugila · Master

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    Hi soundgen.

    Slightly confused here ? What I stated is correct. As for a comment, if it works for you then great !
    Why not offer a trial to someone on here who is newly diagnosed and let us know the result.

    Ken. (no expert)
     
  14. Manogwent

    Manogwent Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Hi, I'm interested in this form of B1, where can you but in UK,can you get in Boots? I'm on 80mg Glicazide to get BG's in am down but i put a stone on so was looking for another way of doing this and this seems ideal.if i cut out the glicazide and use benfotiamine perhaps the weight will come off as well. any suggestions greatly welcomed lol :?
     
  15. cugila

    cugila · Master

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    Hi mog.

    Not sure where you can buy it in a store here in the UK. Try a search on the net.

    Here is a link to an online supplier of the 'stuff.'
    thediscountpharma.com/item/benfotiamine.html

    The cost seem astronomical ( £53.69 for 120 capsules Then you have to pay extra for Airmail delivery ??? ), maybe that's why it is not readily available ? As for it's efficacy, well it obviously works for some ?

    If you do decide to try it please discuss with your GP. Do not stop your Glic without talking about it ?
     
  16. goji

    goji · Well-Known Member

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    Hi Manogwent

    HanaDr knows a place in the UK to get benfotiamine that is cheaper than the link that Cugila posted - you could try pm'ing her.

    Personally I buy mine from the States as it works out a lot cheaper than getting it in the UK even with shipping costs.

    Unfortunately I am not allowed to give you a link to the site but you can just google Benfotiamine''.
     
  17. Manogwent

    Manogwent Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Hi,Goji,thanks for that, will do as suggested,i was really just seeing if it was worth using. If i could get BG levels downin am then the weight i put on because of the glicazide , might sort it self out.i haven't changed diet much and i test regularly , but weight is up to 15 stone and i don't need that, lol :|
     
  18. Soundgen

    Soundgen · Well-Known Member

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  19. cugila

    cugila · Master

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    Hi Soundgen.

    At the end of the extract it actually states this:
    The ability of benfotiamine to inhibit three major pathways simultaneously MIGHT be clinically useful in preventing the development and progression of diabetic complications.

    Do you have access to the FULL report at all, interested in the bit about it was tested on Diabetic Animals....?


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     
  20. Soundgen

    Soundgen · Well-Known Member

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    Hi Cugila , unfortunately not it would only costs $32 to get it but it's more than I can afford , I'll see if a copy can be obtained via the library
     
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