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bmj statins & lies

Discussion in 'Other Health Conditions and Diabetes' started by Mud Island Dweller, May 16, 2014.

  1. CollieBoy

    CollieBoy Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Yes, If i am offered a drug, I research it fully and check out the alternatives then make an ongoing risk/benefit assessment.
     
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  2. Totto

    Totto Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    It is not about worry, but I do look into what kind of effects a drug will have before I decide if I want to take it. It is my body, after all. So my decision.

    I also have an inkling as to the amount of money the producers put into their efforts to make Drs prescribe drugs.
     
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  3. zand

    zand Type 2 · Expert

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    Yes I need to be convinced that a particular drug will be of benefit to me first then I will weigh up the risks and decide whether to take it or not. I did take one dangerous drug for a while because I wanted to give my heart a chance to improve, so I gambled with the side effects. I got one or two unpleasant side effects (skin blistering in sunlight, eyes really sensitive to light and a 'halo' effect when I looked at light) but the outcome was a heart that beats normally again so it was worth it. Having gone through all that, the last thing I want to do is take something which may weaken the heart muscle again.
     
  4. Squire Fulwood

    Squire Fulwood Type 2 · Expert

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    I never used the Internet to research anything. I took the prescribed medicine without question in every case because I trusted the medical profession's knowledge and skill. My attitude was that if they made a mistake I would go back to them and they would put it right since they made the mistake.

    I noted that each time I was prescribed a statin after the first one caused trouble my nurse would reassure me by saying, "No-one has ever had any trouble with this one". I now doubt if she was being entirely truthful. In retrospect this seems a little more like a divide and conquer ploy.

    Not comparing notes with others at that time left me open to this. It is no longer the case thanks to the Internet and this forum.
     
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    #44 Squire Fulwood, May 21, 2014 at 11:38 AM
    Last edited by a moderator: May 21, 2014
  5. donnellysdogs

    donnellysdogs Type 1 · Master

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  6. kesun

    kesun Other · Well-Known Member

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    That is so true. I still feel a wave of pain and mortification when I remember how I kept my daughter on Tegretol for four years because I trusted the neurology team over her complaints. It was only when they stopped the medicine for an operation and she instantly recovered from all sorts of problems I'd put down to her underlying condition rather than the medication that I realised they'd been wrong. I did her irreparable harm by keeping her on that medicine. That was when I started to check all prescriptions for my children.

    Ironically, though, I didn't think to check Simvastatin when my GP prescribed it for me, and since he hadn't mentioned any side effects (he told me afterwards that mentioning them tends to have a nocebo effect so he doesn't) I was shocked, confused and frightened by the severe side effects that hit me. So I've now learnt to check out prescriptions for me as well as for my family.

    It's hard not to feel betrayed, but I think GPs are generally doing what they honestly think is the right thing. Even professionals make assumptions and overlook details, and there's no reason to think the medics I was at university with are any less prone to error than, say, the lawyers or the engineers. And I think the good ones are glad to have patients or clients who do their own research and act as part of the team.

    Kate
     
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  7. sanguine

    sanguine Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure they do what they think is best, and the majority of patients (not just diabetics) accept what they are told without question, which in the 'good old days' we all probably did in complete confidence. Now however it is so different with the power money and influence of the pharm companies. I'm not sure that most GPs would admit to being influenced, but they are. But in other professions you have to be independent or at least declare an interest if you are pushing a certain product. Presumably doctors have to conform to CPD of some kind? Does that include refreshers in ethics?

    Keeping up to date with developments in all fields must be well nigh impossible now, but that being the case they can hardly be surprised if those who are motivated enough come up with different solutions through their own research. Good for those who embrace this, but I suspect they are quite few for now
     
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  8. donnellysdogs

    donnellysdogs Type 1 · Master

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    Not a nice subject, but I remember thalidomide.. And the devastaing effects that had....no internet in those days.. Unfortunately.

    Thats why I am eternally grateful to be able to google!! I jad a cousin that was a really tragic case.




    Sent from the Diabetes Forum App
     
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  9. zand

    zand Type 2 · Expert

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    Yes my Mum was offered it, thankfully she had no morning sickness so declined it.
     
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  10. donnellysdogs

    donnellysdogs Type 1 · Master

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    I relate this very similarly to the damage that some people are having with statins.

    But it wasnt until 2004 when targetted pay for GP's came in... Honestly I think if we didn't have that and NICE people being paid by statin companies that we would have a withdrawal... Just like thalidomide.

    You are lucky, as am I. However the thought of my cousin and the quality of her life.. Well that is another reason for me never to go back to statins..


    Sent from the Diabetes Forum App
     
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  11. forty six

    forty six Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    It's not that I don't trust their knowledge and skill - but my brothers situation has made me very cautious and is proof that sometimes you cannot go back if they make a mistake. He had pains in his chest when walking and went to his GP more than a dozen times only to be told that he needed to lose weight and it would go away. It didn't and he had to go back to the clinic when his GP wasn't there and so he saw a locum. She sent him straight to the cardiac unit. He had an angiogram and it turned out he had a blockage in his lung. The doctor who performed the test said he was weeks away from a heart attack and that although it would have affected his heart the blockage was entirely due to smoking in his youth. Within a week he had a stent fitted and is now much better. Although I know this has nothing to do with diabetes etc, it has taught me that GP's are the front door of the NHS and are not specialists so I take everything they say with a healthy dose of check it out. I actually trust the diabetic nurse more in my practice because she is a specialist and has to continue her training to keep her qualification. I am lucky in that I get on very well with both my GP and the DN, but I still won't take statins!
     
  12. Indy51

    Indy51 Type 2 · Expert

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  13. runner2009

    runner2009 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Here is another interesting article

    Sent from the Diabetes Forum App
     
    #53 runner2009, May 22, 2014 at 2:56 AM
    Last edited by a moderator: May 22, 2014
  14. mpe

    mpe · Well-Known Member

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    Technically at least some of the so called "side effects" might be better described as "overdoses". An actual "side effect" would be something unrelated to hypocholesterolemia.

    Two obvious problems from the diabetic POV are that the hypocholesterolemia minimum may well be above 4.0 mmol/l (4.2 mmol/l being a possible figure) and that any neuropathy would tend to be assumed to be diabetic in origin.

    A big irony is that any effect Satins may have on CVD may well be a genuine side effect.
     
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  15. mpe

    mpe · Well-Known Member

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    IIRC they have been tested on women and found to be useless. At least in respect of CVD. Even in men they only appear to be of any use to a minority.
     
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  16. lunarlinda

    lunarlinda Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    What happened before statins? I hadn't heard of cholesterol 25 years ago? And, why as a Race, are we becoming sicker and in need of more and more drugs and "medicines"? Why do they want to elongate our lives with all this preventative ****? So they can abuse us when we have lived long past our "best by" date, put us in nursing homes with out ailments and illnesses, costing a bomb, keeping people alive who have no quality of life and would rather not be here? I don't see any logic. My first ever thread on here was "I wanted to burn out, not Fade Away"! I still feel that way. When I was a kid in the 1950's, people drank, smoked, worked hard, didn't eat a fancy diet, weren't overweight, and could have died in their 50's or 60's. So what? They had probably had a happier life with little interferance from anyone, they just got on with it. I want to go back to those simpler, happier times of no knowledge is bliss.
     
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  17. zand

    zand Type 2 · Expert

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    o_OUm...I don't want to die in my 50's........:nailbiting:...that would mean I have only 3 years max. left to do all the things I want to do:wideyed:
     
  18. lunarlinda

    lunarlinda Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I think you've rather missed the point there zand. I didn't say we should all die in our 50's. But having read a lot of your posts, you're not exactly happy are you? (not a dig) xx
     
  19. zand

    zand Type 2 · Expert

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    No, you didn't say we should all die in our 50's, just 'so what?' I'm not sure what that means....so what if we lose a few along the way maybe? Those times you speak of where 'no knowledge was bliss' were dreadful times, where loved ones died suddenly for no apparent reason. Of course there always was a reason, we just had no warnings back then. You are right, of course I am not exactly happy, I am currently trying to work through all of my problems, past and present, and that is why I am not always a bundle of laughs right now. Sometimes I am, just not always. So I am not happy - does that mean I'd be better off dead? Or the world would be better off without me? I 'll give you my own answers to both those questions - 'No' and 'No'.
    This reply isn't a dig at you either; I just want to express that I would rather be informed and aware than live with an ignorance is bliss mindset. It's this mindset that causes so many premature deaths, ( we have seen it on this forum before....'I won't let diabetes take over my life...I'll eat what I want to eat' I simply want to die when I am good and ready and not of some avoidable illness which sends me to the grave before my time....and that is why I am putting myself through this unhappy time, so that I can come through the other side healthier, fitter, stronger and yes...happier.:)
     
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  20. lunarlinda

    lunarlinda Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I have typed and deleted my answer to your response zand. We are all at liberty to apply our opinions to things we see, and you felt your need to respond to my earlier post. I see very little point in throwing our personal opinions back and forth, so I'm going to leave it here, wishing you well, and I hope you live to be 100 years old if that's what you want. xx
     
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