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Bread ... why?

Discussion in 'Diabetes Soapbox - Have Your Say' started by bulkbiker, Apr 21, 2018.

  1. Pinkorchid

    Pinkorchid Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Yes exactly a fried bread sandwhich..enjoy
     
  2. Boo1979

    Boo1979 Other · Well-Known Member

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    I would agree that it “may do them a lot of good” but then again it might not - the only way for any individual to know if a single dietary change is having a positive impact on their diabetes is to gather objective data from rigerous testing ( BG / fasting BG) to put alongside the subjective data (feel better) and others peoples reported data / experiences
     
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  3. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    But even you seem to agree it won't do anyone any harm at all...so maybe a worthwhile experiment for all?
    Plus it will certainly help to lower carb cravings..
     
  4. Sue192

    Sue192 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I've just deleted a very grumpy post because @Boo1979's post says what I said but in a measured tone and without the grumpiness! What made me grumpy is the implication of a lack of imagination on the part of those who have bread, and of course who have tested and can tolerate it. A lack of imagination also implies a lack of intelligence. Not the case at all with members who have tested bread, found that it can be included in their lifestyle, and have made the choice to have it. Their choice. Your choice not to. Simple as that.
     
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  5. derry60

    derry60 Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    I do not get the ham outside cheese or visa versa., or a lettuce put together with ham and cheese inside. You may as well just put the ham lettuce cheese on a plate, after all, it is still a salad. Bread can be fried, toasted, or made into a pudding lemon bread and butter pudding or bread pudding and so on.. I never get people who do lettuce wraps.
     
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  6. Boo1979

    Boo1979 Other · Well-Known Member

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    Experiments are always good to undertake, particularly when diabetes throws a curve ball by changing the familiar ways our body behaves as, from my experience, it will do more than once over the course of our diabetic journeys.
    I have no problem with people being advised to experiment with dietary, medication, exercise or any other change in the pursuit of improved health. My problem starts when a) a positive outcome is implicitly or explicitly assumed /promised b) all of the scientific aspect of an experiment ( ie data gathering to set alongside and test the theory ) is forgotten and people are just told to change their diet without any acknowledgment that it might or might not be the right thing for that individual and no advice given on how to test and evaluate the impact
    There are also some theories that cutting out grains can do people harm in terms of reduced fibre and Bvitamin intake - I dont personally find those theories relevant as I ensure high fibre intake from low carb sources and also take Bvit supplements but I wouldnt rubbish / ignore the basic premis that excluding grains can cause problems either
     
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    #226 Boo1979, Apr 29, 2018 at 10:50 AM
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2018
  7. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    It was in reference to someone who wanted a sandwich .. which is usually one thing inside another. It was also slightly humorous..hey ho..
     
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  8. derry60

    derry60 Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that kind of jumped out at me also..
     
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  9. AdamJames

    AdamJames Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I've struggled to understand the 'lack of imagination' thing. Maybe my understanding of the word 'imagination' is unusual!

    I'm not sure how having bacon and eggs for breakfast is more or less imaginative if you add bread, of any sort, to it? It's possibly a bit more imaginative if you really like bread, and have taken the time to either research, buy or make a very low carb version of it so you can have what you enjoy.

    I'd say that the hallmark of a lack of imagination is when we do something that is deep in our nature, without questioning it. One thing which is very deep in our nature is to find it very hard to understand, and even tolerate, when people behave differently to us. So it's normal, and unimaginative, to use derogatory words when describing behaviour which other people engage in but we don't.

    I mean the above in a thoughtful way, not an annoyed one. I love this thread and don't get at all upset if someone describes what I do in a critical way. There's a lot to criticise! I do think it's nice to step back and think about the meaning of words sometimes however.

    What would be really imaginative is if we all critiqued our own diet. Why do we have a sausage when there would be less carbs in bacon? Why do we have milk or cream in coffee when we could have it black?

    For that matter, why do we drive cars when we know it's wrong? It's dangerous and it's polluting. Why do we do so many things which we know are wrong or imperfect? I think it's mostly because we know that life ultimately is imperfect, because we are going to die, we need to die from something, so we find a curious balance between enjoying things and accepting they are never going to be perfect or give us the maximum chances of a long and healthy life.

    It's quite a deep subject, and requires a bit of imagination to get stuck in to!
     
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  10. Simon84

    Simon84 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    As a "Pre-Diabetic" you probably can get away with eating bread and enjoy the versatility of using it in many forms-Many diabetics cannot however without worsening blood glucose levels,myself included so I totally "Get" wrapping fillings in lettuce leaves and the like for snacks and light bites.
     
  11. KK123

    KK123 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    I find all of this very interesting. You could actually substitute 'bread' for any other 'vice', ie alcohol or smoking or getting no exercise etc (none of which I partake in because I am a Saint). We all know those things are bad for us but many people do them anyway. It is a habit and I am sure for those that do it, they weigh up their individual risks and carry on anyway. How many of those vehemently against bread, smoke? I would love to know and hear their reasons.
     
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  12. derry60

    derry60 Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    There are plenty of people who do suggest it though as an alternative to bread, which I never got. I would rather have a leafy salad and add all the things that go on to a salad. It is like the cauliflower rice thing why? LOL..If I do a curry I will have steamed cauliflower and broccoli, for some reason seems to taste better than cauliflower rice, and I don't know why that is. I do like courgettes though turned into Zoodles, but I never compare it to pasta. There are many recipes out there for keto bread and cakes etc. I cannot believe that these things do not put on weight. Much of the bread and cakes are with Almond flour, Coconut flour or both added to the same recipe. Almond flour are nuts ground down, while they are good for us, if we ate this on a regular basis in bread form then cake form, pancake form etc surely this would cause weight gain. I just go without lol
     
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  13. derry60

    derry60 Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    I used to love wholemeal bread with all of the seeds in, the more seeds the better. I do miss that
     
  14. derry60

    derry60 Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    I was just about to ask you that, regarding the fat keeping your BG levels down. Do you use fat like lard or butter? I may try a slice of protein bread fried in butter and see what happens, followed by a dessert spoon of fresh cream to be on the safe side lol
     
  15. derry60

    derry60 Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    I live in Yorkshire and I can still get Braun love it
     
  16. Bluetit1802

    Bluetit1802 Type 2 (in remission!) · Legend

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    That is assuming we all have carb cravings. Maybe I'm odd in some way, but hand on heart I can say I haven't had any. Could that be because I didn't go cold turkey when I started? I reduced my carb intake gradually over a few months until I arrived at a level I was happy with. I have continued to eat bread and spuds, which were my staples before low carb, albeit in greatly reduced portions guided by my meter. For me, this is not a problem.
     
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  17. Bluetit1802

    Bluetit1802 Type 2 (in remission!) · Legend

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    We only use solid fats - lard, butter, goose and duck fat. No more vegetable oils in this house. :)
     
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  18. LittleGreyCat

    LittleGreyCat Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I've just come in to the tail end of this so haven't read most of it but much of the argument seems to be scientific (as in it does/doesn't raise your BG) as opposed to psychological.
    Most of the long term posters here are strong-minded, experienced, and well along their personal journey with diabetes.


    I would hazard that a large number of diabetics may not be as strong minded. We do see regular pleas for help from partners of the newly (or not so newly) diagnosed where the diabetic person is in denial and won't give up the traditional comfort foods. IMHO carbohydrates are highly addictive. So something which looks like a familiar food, even tastes like it, can have enormous value as a stepping stone away from the worst foods and even as a long term replacement.

    @bulkbiker you say that giving up bread can do no harm. I would say that successfully giving up bread can do little harm, but trying and failing can do enormous harm. If someone realises that psychologically they just can't cope without the familiar comfort of bread with a meal (although they may not phrase it quite like that) that can make them feel that dietary changes are imposdible and hopeless.
    Food is, quite understandably, central to our life. Fine dining undelines the extent to which eating and drinking is a pleasureable activity.

    So, my view is that low carbohydrate bread can be a massive force for good, along with things like cauliflower rice, to enable the less strong minded to feel that they are eating "proper food" just like they alwas have, and are not going to be on a punishment regime for the rest of their life.
    I'll include myself amongst the less strong minded. I find Lidl rolls an enormous comfort as part of my daily diet. I could give them up (and may have to) but until then I will carry on eating them because I really like them and they seem to cause little or no harm to my BG control.
     
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  19. AdamJames

    AdamJames Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Totally agree. Exactly the issue we had with our 77 year old mum recently. She's done incredibly well eliminating most carbs from her diet and stuck to it for over a month - we didn't think she would. But the one thing she kept raising more and more was how much she was missing bread. It really seemed like that one thing was going to make her rebel against the whole thing. So now she has some bread in the freezer, we've told her to try to limit it to 1 slice a day, she's in heaven, she isn't eating a lot of it, and it's <4g carbs a day serving a very good purpose.
     
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  20. Boo1979

    Boo1979 Other · Well-Known Member

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    If youre odd then so am I!
    Ive also never experienced ‘carb cravings’ - my personal theory is thar what are called ‘carb cravings’ may really be ‘sugar cravings’ - Ive never really liked very sweet stuff so have never eaten much of the stuff and have never craved it. Research also seems to indicate that for some people the taste of sugar (not generic carbs that will turn into glucose when digested) stimulates the same areas of the brain involved in addictions to various things (drugs, sex, alcohol etc etc) in other people
    My taste preferences have always been on the spicy end of the scale, and my addictions were drug (nicotine) related. My craving for fags lasted many years after I gave them up (21 years ago) and were v easily reawakened.
    Telling me to do without curry or chillies might stir some cravings
    I use low carb bread occasionally and as indicated via testing. I also use konjac noodles / spaghetti and chia seed puddings but primarially for their high fibre content
     
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    #240 Boo1979, Apr 29, 2018 at 11:58 AM
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2018
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