Breakdown of Italy’s figures (edited title)

[SaskiaKC]

Your forgetting taking the top down on the convertible, in order to witness some marvellous meteorological events..

And while you're witnessing one of these events a wasp/hornet/bumblebee/bird/spider flies into your face, blinding you, causing you to go into hysterics and your car to go into the guardrail or an oncoming Mack truck.

Hmm ... maybe this is why car makers are promoting self-drive cars now? Because cars aren't susceptible to bug bites?

 

[lucylocket61]

something to consider:

In China we learnt that the coronavirus differentiate ages, it spreads faster and it has a higher death rate among older people. 60% of China's population is bellow 39 years of age, China is extremely young. Europe is extremely old. We will have much more cases per million of population and we will have more deaths too. Chinese numbers don't describe the European situation at all.

 

[Tophat1900]

something to consider:

In China we learnt that the coronavirus differentiate ages, it spreads faster and it has a higher death rate among older people. 60% of China's population is bellow 39 years of age, China is extremely young. Europe is extremely old. We will have much more cases per million of population and we will have more deaths too. Chinese numbers don't describe the European situation at all.

I do agree.

Ivor Cummins posted this on FB in regards to Influenza like deaths in Italy and age.

Highlights
•
In the winter seasons from 2013/14 to 2016/17, an estimated average of 5,290,000 ILI cases occurred in Italy, corresponding to an incidence of 9%.

•
More than 68,000 deaths attributable to flu epidemics were estimated in the study period.

•
Italy showed a higher influenza attributable excess mortality compared to other European countries. especially in the elderly.



More info in the link below....

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scien...K29H5EHcBcy0h9hUKmTRazTnS_9UaQY4onO3hUjuIG6tg

 

[Indy51]

The way Covig 19 is shaping up in Italy at present, it seems pretty indiscriminate to me who it infects / kills.

I believe if I contract it, it will be the COPD I have that kills me and not T2 diabetes...

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-51964307

Same here - my lung condition is way more likely to influence my outcome than having well-controlled Type 2. In fact, pre-existing lung conditions are among the highest risk factors, doesn't matter what age we are or whatever other conditions we may have. Same holds true if I catch bog standard flu, but I at least get vaccinated for that each year. I'm way out of luck if I contract Covid-19.

 

[Oil Drum]

Ahhh. So it's not percentage of deaths (which should add to 100, as everybody registered as dying actually died), but number of deaths per infected 100 people in that category/ age group. I was beginning to wonder if there was an 'unknown' category not shown, e.g. 'we don't know how old he was...'.

Thanks.

Hang on, if you're 80+ and catch it, this gives you a real likelihood of dying (15 in every 100 die). That just hit home.

To put this in perspective life expectancy for westerm industrialised countries is in the range 78 to 83 with Italy right at the high end of the range. We all have to die of something as we age each new day is gift (or a curse).
My wife's work involves handling death certificates, death certificates simply state one cause out of death out of the many conditions that the person may have suffered from,> In one case she was impressed by the doctors clarity it simply stated " Cause of Death: Extreme Old Age" "Age at Time of death:105 Years".

 

[Fairygodmother]

I fear that the UK may be heading the same way as Italy. Look at the figures. And why is it that Germany has far fewer deaths per case than Italy? It can’t just be the demographics.
https://www.facebook.com/748743767/posts/10157368830623768/

 

[Oldvatr]

To put this in perspective life expectancy for westerm industrialised countries is in the range 78 to 83 with Italy right at the high end of the range. We all have to die of something as we age each new day is gift (or a curse).
My wife's work involves handling death certificates, death certificates simply state one cause out of death out of the many conditions that the person may have suffered from,> In one case she was impressed by the doctors clarity it simply stated " Cause of Death: Extreme Old Age" "Age at Time of death:105 Years".

In days of Yore, feebleness or frailty were both valid causes of death.

 

[Jaylee]

I do agree.

Ivor Cummins posted this on FB in regards to Influenza like deaths in Italy and age.

Highlights
•
In the winter seasons from 2013/14 to 2016/17, an estimated average of 5,290,000 ILI cases occurred in Italy, corresponding to an incidence of 9%.

•
More than 68,000 deaths attributable to flu epidemics were estimated in the study period.

•
Italy showed a higher influenza attributable excess mortality compared to other European countries. especially in the elderly.



More info in the link below....

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scien...K29H5EHcBcy0h9hUKmTRazTnS_9UaQY4onO3hUjuIG6tg

At the end of the day.
Covid 19, (from what I can gather.) attacks the respitory system.
Flu is simalar in that respect. (I know we have been reminded on other topics, that this is not a flu.?)

I feel it is reasonable to make the comparison with the two regarding mortality & put this in perspective.

Granted, there are vaccinations developed for predicted flu strains doing the rounds & a program brought out every year for the "at risk" or those in contact (working/caring?) with the at risk demographic.

But none as of yet for COVID.

In days of Yore, feebleness or frailty were both valid causes of death.

So was "died of a broken heart."

 

[lucylocket61]

I fear that the UK may be heading the same way as Italy. Look at the figures. And why is it that Germany has far fewer deaths per case than Italy? It can’t just be the demographics.
https://www.facebook.com/748743767/posts/10157368830623768/

Germany is testing more people than the UK is. Therefore our figures only show the percentage of deaths in people already in hospital, who are thus already seriously ill. Germany's figures include people who have not had the disease seriously, so not in danger of death.

UK lack of testing is skewing the figures and making them useless when comparing them with other countries who test more.

 

[Tophat1900]

At the end of the day.
Covid 19, (from what I can gather.) attacks the respitory system.
Flu is simalar in that respect. (I know we have been reminded on other topics, that this is not a flu.?)

I feel it is reasonable to make the comparison with the two regarding mortality & put this in perspective.

Granted, there are vaccinations developed for predicted flu strains doing the rounds & a program brought out every year for the "at risk" or those in contact (working/caring?) with the at risk demographic.

But none as of yet for COVID.

Hi Jaylee,
I wasn't trying to compare the seasonal flu with covid, but just pointing out the high mortality rates for a country that seems to have a large vulnerable elderly population. I'd venture to say that covid being a virus that causes pneumonia and the seasonal flu attributes to a large number of elderly deaths in Italy most likely via pneumonia might explain to some degree why Italy has such shocking numbers.

If Italy has a high mortality rate with seasonal flu then it isn't surprising that the same populace is also suffering terribly through the covid epidemic. They seem to have a large high risk group.

 

[Jaylee]

Hi Jaylee,
I wasn't trying to compare the seasonal flu with covid, but just pointing out the high mortality rates for a country that seems to have a large vulnerable elderly population. I'd venture to say that covid being a virus that causes pneumonia and the seasonal flu attributes to a large number of elderly deaths in Italy most likely via pneumonia might explain to some degree why Italy has such shocking numbers.

If Italy has a high mortality rate with seasonal flu then it isn't surprising that the same populace is also suffering terribly through the covid epidemic. They seem to have a large high risk group.

I'm with on the same page regarding these thoughts..

I find it strange that the only concern regarding the seasonals is "do I take the jab." It's a no brainer, if you are offered a vaccination & wish to lower the probability of futher complications.

Lol, I bet my last cartridge of insulin that some the first clambering inline, should a vaccine for COVID be found?
Will be the flu jab deniers..

 

[bulkbiker]

Lol, I bet my last cartridge of insulin that some the first clambering inline, should a vaccine for COVID be found?
Will be the flu jab deniers..

Nope..

 

[Tophat1900]

I'm with on the same page regarding these thoughts..

I find it strange that the only concern regarding the seasonals is "do I take the jab." It's a no brainer, if you are offered a vaccination & wish to lower the probability of futher complications.

Lol, I bet my last cartridge of insulin that some the first clambering inline, should a vaccine for COVID be found?
Will be the flu jab deniers..

Yeah, you're not going to die from the jab, but you might if you have risk factors if you get the flu... hopefully the jab covers the same strain if you get the flu. Last thing I want is lungs filled with fluid, Pneumonia is never a fun experience. Puts me in hospital rather quickly.

 

[Jaylee]

Nope..

Hi BB,

To clarify.

... To the flu jab?
....To my therory?

.. Or just not willing to gamble a nice juicy steak against my last cartridge of slin.?

 

[Jaylee]

Yeah, you're not going to die from the jab, but you might if you have risk factors if you get the flu... hopefully the jab covers the same strain if you get the flu. Last thing I want is lungs filled with fluid, Pneumonia is never a fun experience. Puts me in hospital rather quickly.

I've still had the odd bout of flu, Inspite of the jabs for years.

But, I have managed to fight it off quicker..

My dad had pneumonia.. Worrying.

 

[bulkbiker]

Hi BB,

To clarify.

... To the flu jab?
....To my therory?

.. Or just not willing to gamble a nice juicy steak against my last cartridge of slin.?

I refuse the flu jab.. never had one.
I would highly likely refuse a coronavirus jab..
happy to provide the steak though..you can keep the 'slin I think your need is far greater.

Then again I'm a natural self isolator anyway (grumpy and insular)

No aged relatives left and I'm pretty healthy.. I'd quite like to get it and be done with it to be completely honest.

 

[Oil Drum]

This is intresting https://www.theguardian.com/comment...ed-coronavirus-mass-testing-covid-19-italy-vo

 

[Oil Drum]

I refuse the flu jab.. never had one.
I would highly likely refuse a coronavirus jab..
happy to provide the steak though..you can keep the 'slin I think your need is far greater.

Then again I'm a natural self isolator anyway (grumpy and insular)

No aged relatives left and I'm pretty healthy.. I'd quite like to get it and be done with it to be completely honest.

Really you should accept the flu jab if you ever have a serious run in with influenza you don't forget it. I was knocked down with flu in the space of an hour with it in the late 1970's and will never forget it. If or when a vacination becomes avaialable for CORVID-19 grab it with both arms.

 

[Oil Drum]

(1) Influenza Flu isn't a heavy cold ----- if you already have some ressistance to the strain that hits in a particular year it can be relatively mild if you haven't it hits like an express train. Look up the the 1918 flu pandemic on the web,

(2) CORVI-19 We have zero ressistance to CORVI-19 like the flu it hits and fast and like flu when in the lungs your own bodies response to it is the potential killer.

 

[Brunneria]

Folks, please let us not derail this thread with off topic debates about the flu vaccine.

This thread is to discuss Italy’s COVID-19 stats.