Breakdown of Italy’s figures (edited title)

[NéjiSaïdi]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-died-from-virus-had-other-illness-italy-says

The vast majority had a multitude of comorbities and age. Not so reassuring if that also applies to you I understand, but it’s not a single factor as it is for many and not as bad as face value suggests.

Thanks for sharing. Very insightful, indeed.

 

[Max68]

The blood pressure one is also interesting. Is that uncontrolled or does controlled BP come under risk? Say someone's BP with meds is normal, does that still come under risk? Are the medications people take for certain conditions contributing? So many questions we sadly don't have the answers for.

 

[DavidGrahamJones]

I think I'll stay worried, although a small ray of light, it's worth looking at South Korea and how they've handled this virus. I believe patient zero was detected in February and they have now just had a few days with no new cases. The measures they took weren't that different to the U.K. except they admitted to the general public how serious things were on day one. They pretty much had lock down from day one as well. They even have apps that will show 'hot spots' so that you can avoid certain areas if you have to go out. Stay safe!

 

[Mr_Pot]

I thought this article was interesting...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51979654

 

[Member496333]

I thought this article was interesting...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51979654

Yeah I read that earlier.

"...because the modellers did not map this..." is quite an important factor to consider. It doesn't automatically discount anyone or anything, but it does indicate that caution is needed when analysing the statistics.

 

[lindisfel]

What will be really interesting is that, if we all are still here to see it, how politicians will be judged here and abroad.

We shall all be seeing the deaths per million of population per country.

It looks like Germany is doing far better up to present, than the uk.

We got off to a slow start, but when the true magnitude dawned, the wishy washy has been dropped.

We are all going to die sometime, we just prefer it to be later than sooner.
Derek

 

[DavidGrahamJones]

Would these people be dying anyway?

They would have done eventually, just not now and not in such great numbers that the mortuaries are full and the army are having to remove dead bodies from hospitals and store them somewhere else.

If there had been no covid19 virus, we would not be seeing the army removing dead bodies from the hospital mortuaries.

 

[Member496333]

They would have done eventually, just not now and not in such great numbers that the mortuaries are full and the army are having to remove dead bodies from hospitals and store them somewhere else.

If there had been no covid19 virus, we would not be seeing the army removing dead bodies from the hospital mortuaries.

Sure thing. It's definitely not as simple as anyone thinks it is on either side of the dividing line between apathy and panic. Incidentally, just for clarity if anyone is reading the quote in your post without context, those weren't my words. They came from the BBC article under most recent discussion.

 

[Mr_Pot]

If there had been no covid19 virus, we would not be seeing the army removing dead bodies from the hospital mortuaries

So far there have been 177 deaths in total in the UK from COVID-19 but there are about 1,400 deaths per day anyway so if the army are involved it must be due to the bodies being infectious rather than there being a mountain of bodies to deal with. There is certainly no reason to be complacent but we shouldn't spread the image of the black death - yet.

 

[lucylocket61]

What will be really interesting is that, if we all are still here to see it, how politicians will be judged here and abroad.

We shall all be seeing the deaths per million of population per country.

It looks like Germany is doing far better up to present, than the uk.

We got off to a slow start, but when the true magnitude dawned, the wishy washy has been dropped.

We are all going to die sometime, we just prefer it to be later than sooner.
Derek

Germany is testing more young people. Age is a factor in outcomes.

 

[lindisfel]

So far there have been 177 deaths in total in the UK from COVID-19 but there are about 1,400 deaths per day anyway so if the army are involved it must be due to the bodies being infectious rather than there being a mountain of bodies to deal with. There is certainly no reason to be complacent but we shouldn't spread the image of the black death - yet.

I think he was talking about Italy and the army removing the corpses?
Surely you have taken the comment out of context.

 

[lindisfel]

Germany is testing more young people. Age is a factor in outcomes.

So is testing, there is some suggestion the ones in intensive care survive better.

If we look at deaths after the epidemic per million population, as I said, we get a picture of the performance of other democracies compared to the uk.

 

[Mr_Pot]

I think he was talking about Italy and the army removing the corpses?
Surely you have taken the comment out of context.

I believe @DavidGrahamJones was replying to @Jim Lahey who quoted from an article I posted about the UK. If my comment was out of context only @DavidGrahamJones would know.

 

[lindisfel]

I believe @DavidGrahamJones was replying to @Jim Lahey who quoted from an article I posted about the UK. If my comment was out of context only @DavidGrahamJones would know.

It is hardly credible it was the uk.
We should use our loaf. Please give a link to the army being used in the uk to remove bodies!
It would have been in the Sun!

A simple check on the net would have shown it was Italy and avoided spreading false rumours.

 

[DavidGrahamJones]

if the army are involved it must be due to the bodies being infectious rather than there being a mountain of bodies to deal with.

I think the number of deaths are greater than the number they can handle the way they have done up to now.

Bergamo in Lombardy seems to be worst hit. This from the World Health Organisation:
Contrary to common belief, there is no evidence that corpses pose a risk of epidemic disease after a natural disaster. Most agents do not survive long in the human body after death. Human remains only pose a substantial risk to health in a few special cases, such as deaths from cholera or haemorrhagic fevers.


Workers who routinely handle corpses may however risk contracting tuberculosis, bloodborne viruses (eg hepatitis B and C and HIV) and gastrointestinal infections (e.g. cholera, E. coli, hepatitis A, rotavirus diarrhoea, salmonellosis, shigellosis and typhoid/paratyphoid fevers):

My interpretation of this piece, URL below (there are others) is that they can't handle the number of funerals and bodies are being taken away to other towns and cities to be cremated and brought back. It doesn't say anything about infection.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavi...-as-citys-crematorium-is-overwhelmed-11959994

 

[Max68]

There will obviously more deaths on top due to the outbreak as well as the disease itself. My mum for instance is in a bad way with dementia in a care home. Now if the home stays safe, which is a lottery considering workers still have to go home and out, you will still have residents like my mum who are under observation and tests for other conditions which require GP or hospital visits. Obviously a lot of those appointments will either be cancelled due to not enough NHS staff to deal with those or that a hospital visit to see a consultant is deemed too risky to the patient. That isn't just older ill people in care as well. I cannot imagine how people currently having treatment for say cancer must be feeling right now. A real double whammy in relation to trying to make a recovery with treatment. I dare say mental health and suicide rates will also be very much in the news once this is over sadly and general fitness and diet of people also will take a whack. Hard enough for regular people to shop in full shelves at the moment and as time goes on let alone those of us who need to shop for certain foods due to diet.

 

[DavidGrahamJones]

We should use our loaf. Please give a link to the army being used in the uk to remove bodies!

Sorry for confusion, the army thing is in Italy. My original post was about 'would these people have died anyway' and my opinion is still the same, whatever country you want to talk about. Yes we're all going to go eventually but hopefully not because of a virus.

 

[Oil Drum]

With regard to Italy both news sources and from I sources on the ground indicated they are having issues dealing with the sheer number of bodies. The number of new cases in Itlay looked like it was flatten out a few days ago but now has increased sharply but this is meaningless without knowing if the number of daily tests has increased.

 

[Oil Drum]

It is hardly credible it was the uk.
We should use our loaf. Please give a link to the army being used in the uk to remove bodies!
It would have been in the Sun!

A simple check on the net would have shown it was Italy and avoided spreading false rumours.

At this is the time of year a major NATO exercise is normally held in the UK

 

[SaskiaKC]

What will be really interesting is that, if we all are still here to see it, how politicians will be judged here and abroad.

We shall all be seeing the deaths per million of population per count.
Derek

It would be very interesting to see how the history books describe this 100 years from now.

1000 years from now they will have to translate any statistics they may dig up.