Burn Out

Ponchu

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292
Looking at home made breads ...(substitute anything)

“You can never have this again.”

Versus

“You can have this but you’ll need Rx to lower BG.”


I recognize it’s not always this simple.

I’ve learned from watching & talking to Type 2’s who have “diabetes burn out” who now eat whatever the hell they want and rely on meds.

I don’t condemn them for this.

I’ve only been controlling Type 2 for 6 months (less than 20 carbs per day).

I do wonder if the burnout will set upon me.
 

JoKalsbeek

Expert
Messages
5,960
Type of diabetes
I reversed my Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Looking at home made breads ...(substitute anything)

“You can never have this again.”

Versus

“You can have this but you’ll need Rx to lower BG.”


I recognize it’s not always this simple.

I’ve learned from watching & talking to Type 2’s who have “diabetes burn out” who now eat whatever the hell they want and rely on meds.

I don’t condemn them for this.

I’ve only been controlling Type 2 for 6 months (less than 20 carbs per day).

I do wonder if the burnout will set upon me.


No-one can tell... I guess it hits most of us sooner or later, for different reasons. Missing certain foods, feeling left out on social occasions, or just feeling anger/rebellion towards our own bodies, feeling they betrayed us... It could come from all sides, really. But when you know it, you could guard against it.

When it comes to food, I just keep trying to make it GOOD. Some joy on my plate. If I like what I'm eating, I don't miss other things overmuch. As for foods like bread, there are alternatives beyond medication (keto mugcake or keto bread, over at dietdoctor.com), Konjac noodles, etc.... It's not the same, but certain things can be switched out for something else. I like what I eat though, so I haven't been switching much to be honest... I do have a slightly hard time over the holidays, but I have a hand in most menu's at my mom's and my inlaws, so I know I can eat things I like and not go away hungry while others pig out on carby stuff. (Meats, cheeses, fish, deviled eggs, extra dark chocolate, unsweetened whipped cream, all especially for me, and the family loves it too and don't even realise they're low carbing with me. Mostly because I bought the kilo of luxury chocolates and 95 petit fours that will be on the table too, though I won't have any. I'll be busy enough munching on my own goodies.). For me it also helped to objectify certain foods.... I look at cakes a lot during birthdayparties, because I'm photographing them. And the kids putting it all the way behind their ears and in their hair. It doesn't quite register as edible anymore. Which is also why this Christmas' petit fours are a very beautiful, colourful selection, because while I may not be eating them, I'll certainly be taking pictures.

We find ways to cope. Or we don't. If you're aware a burn out may happen, you could try to figure out why you're feeling what you're feeling, if there's anything you can do about it, or if you feel going on meds is worth it. (And in some cases, burn out means not being willing to take meds anymore)... Know yourself. Do what you need to do, for you. It's your D. Your choice.
 
M

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I started to get burnout negotiating with carbohydrate and keeping a blood glucose meter in a holster. Constantly feeling deprived, depressed and hungry.

Since switching to primal-keto I’ve never been happier and never looked back. I enjoy my relationship with food now more than I ever have my entire adult life, so it seems unlikely that I’ll tire of it. Time will tell :)
 
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kitedoc

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From my experience and reading, not as professional advice or opinion: @Ponchu We need to remember is that we are shaped by our food experiences from very young,
This can be a blessing (for example, knowing which foods are good for our health ) and a curse (being swayed by advertising and other influences towards eating less healthy food).
Eating is an emotional experience as well as a survival behaviour.
In fact they have done experiments where they have given children a vast smorgasbord of food to choose from (including ice-cream and other sweets) and over a number of days these children independently end up choosing a balanced diet.
Now of course that 'balanced diet' could be whatever it is defined as ( ? the Eatwell plate, the food pyramid) etc so we should not put too much store in the result, knowing that Big Food has in many ways corrupted the dietitian training process in many countries.
There is a solution of zinc which a person can taste and if they cannot taste the zinc in it that correlates with zinc deficiency (they will eat zinc-containing foods without tasting the zinc in them) and if the test solution tastes strongly of zinc to them they are replete in zinc and avoid foods that taste of zinc (a neat way our taste buds can regulate our food intake).
So how do we deal with the subliminal conditioning by food advertising, our families and others?
There is no easy answer but ... From some off-topic experiments with rats (the furry kind) a researcher got an idea of how to discourage people with alcohol problems from imbibing. He asked each to name their favourite alcohol-containing drink.
He had them each individually taste and smell their own favourite drink and 1 to 2 hours later he put each in a seat which was rotated at high speed, enough to make them feel dizzy and nauseous, but not sufficient to make them vomit. This procedure was repeated about 4 times over several weeks.
After this treatment the vast majority of subjects would then decline to drink their favourite alcohol-containing drink if offered it personally or to buy it.
Yes, this was an 'adverse conditioning' experiment and it worked. You might ask how fair is it to subject persons to this type of treatment. These persons with alcohol problems were those that had failed all known treatments - they either had to avoid alcohol or face an early death.
You may not have realised something with yourself or a relative who has been unlucky enough to be diagnosed with cancer and ended up receiving chemotherapy. What does most chemo do? Makes you very nauseous and sometimes vomit. What is done about that? Loads of anti-nausea treatment given which may prevent vomiting and quell nausea, sort of.. Now what if a well-meaning relative or nurse suggest i have my favourite cup of tea before chemo starts? And I get nauseous after the chemo, say 2 hours later? If this keeps happening not only am I going to be conditioned to avoid the smell or any taste sensation of the chemo treatment but also the smell and taste of my favourite tea. The lesson: If one is having treatment, any treatment that may cause nausea some hours later, choose to eat/drink your least favourite food beforehand. (Sarsparella might be a good choice if low in sugar, that is) )?!
Now back to the bread: You might say that you are not going to go through nausea-producing treatment to stop eating your favourite bread, even if the bread does muck up the BSLs.. Fair enough, except, when you were young you did not agree to have the food industry invading your senses and brain and that of your parents' with advertising. And it may be that if (and this is a guess, not any high fulutin' opinion) you pigged out on bread, and the resulting high BSL was unpleasant enough, particularly if you felt sick, that over time (and enough exposures) the accumulated experiences might put you off that bread.
What this afore-mentioned researcher thought was that smell and taste have important survival value - if something tastes or smells bad we avoid it - such behaviour may save ourselves being poisoned. But also if we eat something and it later makes us feel sick (usually 1 to 2 hours later ) then our body remembers that and we are wary of tasting/smelling/eating it again.
The two important things in the success of his experiment with the alcohol-troubled were:
1) that the smell/tasting was 1 to 2 hours earlier than the onset of nausea, to mimic the usual situation with our use of taste and smell and reactions to food (quite different to the way our senses of sight, hearing and touch work.) It would be useless for our hand to only feel the super-hot hotplate our hand was touching some one to two hours later.!!
2) the nausea was the adverse symptom that triggered this later avoidance of a particular food. If vomiting happened it might still trigger the response , but if the vomiting relieved the nausea, the sensation and feeling of relief could send the wrong signal to our memory and other brain centres and the avoidance behaviour to eating/drinking that food might not happen.
Apologies for the length of this post. I have some fascinating info on food intolerance and how we may end up pigging out on the very foods that upset us - but that is a post for another day!!!
 

Resurgam

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At a very young age my parents took me to live with my father's parents, my mother was to nurse her mother in law for years as she died, slowly, from type two diabetes and the wrong treatment.
To know that the same fate will not fall upon me just by not eating much of one food group - and as time goes by I feel better and better as a bonus is enough to keep me on track.
Now that I can tolerate small amounts of higher carbs from time to time I do make bread again - but I add lots of low carb ingredients to my normal recipe, and then make small loaves - I am planning on muffin tins for the next batch, and I then freeze them and ration them out. It is good bread, but I would not die for it.
 

Guzzler

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I don't think burn out has to be an inevitability. There are those who for different reasons have to have medications and/or insulin, this is not always because they have suffered burn out.
 
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Daphne917

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,320
Type of diabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
Looking at home made breads ...(substitute anything)

“You can never have this again.”

Versus

“You can have this but you’ll need Rx to lower BG.”


I recognize it’s not always this simple.

I’ve learned from watching & talking to Type 2’s who have “diabetes burn out” who now eat whatever the hell they want and rely on meds.

I don’t condemn them for this.

I’ve only been controlling Type 2 for 6 months (less than 20 carbs per day).

I do wonder if the burnout will set upon me.
Do you test and how good is your BS control? You may find that you can eat some of the low carb breads or eat more carbs. I’m ok with the Tesco high protein bread which is 10 carbs per slice. I know that I am going against what many forum members do/advise however if it stops you going off the rails it may be worth considering.
 
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bulkbiker

BANNED
Messages
19,575
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Looking at home made breads ...(substitute anything)

“You can never have this again.”

Versus

“You can have this but you’ll need Rx to lower BG.”


I recognize it’s not always this simple.

I’ve learned from watching & talking to Type 2’s who have “diabetes burn out” who now eat whatever the hell they want and rely on meds.

I don’t condemn them for this.

I’ve only been controlling Type 2 for 6 months (less than 20 carbs per day).

I do wonder if the burnout will set upon me.

3 years into keto moving towards carnivore.. I guess I'm too attached to eyes and toes to give up on myself.
As with everything it will depend on your "why"..
 
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Do you test and how good is your BS control? You may find that you can eat some of the low carb breads or eat more carbs. I’m ok with the Tesco high protein bread which is 10 carbs per slice. I know that I am going against what many forum members do/advise however if it stops you going off the rails it may be worth considering.

Hi @Daphne917 you are certainly not going 'against what some forum member's advise' you and everyone else are individual's who can decide what to eat, or what not to eat, some can tolerate carbs, some can't or won't.
 
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JoKalsbeek

Expert
Messages
5,960
Type of diabetes
I reversed my Type 2
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Diet only
Do you test and how good is your BS control? You may find that you can eat some of the low carb breads or eat more carbs. I’m ok with the Tesco high protein bread which is 10 carbs per slice. I know that I am going against what many forum members do/advise however if it stops you going off the rails it may be worth considering.
Everyone's D is different. I'm in the Keto/Low Carb camp, but really... Whatever works. In the end, you do have to be actually happy/content as an end result. I keto to maintain quality of life. But if good quality of life means eating carby things for someone else, more power to 'em. It's not what I would advise, medically speaking... But if it works mentally... You know. Like I said, whatever works.

I just wish everybody could be happy as a default setting. :)
 

Daphne917

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Hi @Daphne917 you are certainly not going 'against what some forum member's advise' you and everyone else is an individual who can decide what to eat, or what not to eat, some can tolerate carbs, some can't or won't.
@Robinredbreast thanks. I am lucky in that I am able to control my T2 whilst eating a moderate numbers of carbs ie between 80 to 100 per day but I would not like to advise someone to do similar if they cannot tolerate them.
 
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Daphne917

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Everyone's D is different. I'm in the Keto/Low Carb camp, but really... Whatever works. In the end, you do have to be actually happy/content as an end result. I keto to maintain quality of life. But if good quality of life means eating carby things for someone else, more power to 'em. It's not what I would advise, medically speaking... But if it works mentally... You know. Like I said, whatever works.

I just wish everybody could be happy as a default setting. :)
I tend to eat moderate carbs ie between 80 to 100 most days and still maintain my Hba1c in the 30s. However I acknowledge that not every T2 wants to or is able to. Unlike yourself I have not got any medical qualifications so don’t feel able to comment ‘medically speaking’ however I know from experience how food affects my BS and know my limits. I tend to eat low carb as a rule however I do not worry about eating the occasional ‘carby’ meal or snack.
 

archersuz

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Messages
1,213
Type of diabetes
Type 2
He had them each individually taste and smell their own favourite drink and 1 to 2 hours later he put each in a seat which was rotated at high speed, enough to make them feel dizzy and nauseous, but not sufficient to make them vomit. This procedure was repeated about 4 times over several weeks.
When I was pregnant with my second child, I suffered with terrible morning sickness. In order to have 5 minutes rest and something to eat/drink, I would put a Rosie and Jim video on for my first born. I still can't hear the Rosie and Jim music without feeling really sick - and my second born is now 22 years old!
 

Antechinus

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Messages
135
Type of diabetes
Don't have diabetes
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I do not have diabetes
My wife bakes her own bread using wild yeast developing naturaly on rye flour. She then uses traditional way of making bread with rye and spelt flour. It takes a lot of effort but makes a low-ish carb bread with resistive starches. We limit ourselves to 2 thin slices a day.

There are also probiotic health benefits from the wild yeast and bacteria that grow in the starter.
 
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JoKalsbeek

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5,960
Type of diabetes
I reversed my Type 2
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I tend to eat moderate carbs ie between 80 to 100 most days and still maintain my Hba1c in the 30s. However I acknowledge that not every T2 wants to or is able to. Unlike yourself I have not got any medical qualifications so don’t feel able to comment ‘medically speaking’ however I know from experience how food affects my BS and know my limits. I tend to eat low carb as a rule however I do not worry about eating the occasional ‘carby’ meal or snack.
Oh no, I'm just a lowly, non-practicing journalist! I just meant, looking at what a body does, keeping it low carb (whatever "low" it needs to be, as it varies for all of us, depending on insulin output and resistance, liverdumps etc), is a good way to keep from getting diabetic complications. The short term ones like moodswings, depressions and lengthy infections and such, to the long term ones where the damage is more extensive/serious. But if it taxes people mentally, well... It shouldn't feel like a straight jacket or anything. Quality of life, it's for everyone to decide for themselves what that means. :)
 
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Ponchu

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Interesting responses.

Recently I’ve engaged w some Type 2’s in the medical profession (mostly nurses but some doctors) who impose no dietary restrictions upon themselves.

Overweight to obese.

A few said they’re tired of low carb eating & just relied upon meds to “correct things.”

I’m enjoying my meals. Foods taste better than ever.

I don’t miss the processed foods.

Yet, I want to remain vigilant.

I enjoy reading the honest responses.
 

Alison Campbell

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1,443
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Type 2
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Tablets (oral)
I find spending time on the forum really helps when I am struggling. Spending time in real or virtual spaces that are low carb helps balance time spent in the high sugar/processed junk food normalised world many of us have to live in.

Pressure and temptation from advertising, work colleagues, medical professionals and family members can be difficult. Life events and other unrelated health conditions/injury also can chip away at our selfcare.

For me doing really well was a big pitfall, best HBA1C followed by the worst 18 months later.
 
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Pinkorchid

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2,927
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Do you test and how good is your BS control? You may find that you can eat some of the low carb breads or eat more carbs. I’m ok with the Tesco high protein bread which is 10 carbs per slice. I know that I am going against what many forum members do/advise however if it stops you going off the rails it may be worth considering.
If you can eat the bread that is good we all have to find out what suits us personally and not just do what others do
 
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lucylocket61

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6,435
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Type 2
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PS

I don’t miss the low level depression that resolved about 6 weeks after cutting sugar & processed foods.
i have been low carbing for nearly 7 years. I can eat around 80g of carbs so have not had to give up bread. I test before and two hours after my meals to make sure I can still eat foods, as things can change.

Yes, I have fallen off the wagon at times, I have burnt out - once for 6 months. But its a marathon, not a sprint. Eating what is good for my diabetes is a way of life. So far, I do not need any meds.

Dont be hard on yourself if you burn out - come on here, talk about it. I found I got lots of support and encouragement to get back on track, and see the carb cravings out again, and focus on my health again.

We are only human, life happens. Lets take it one day at a time.