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Carb spikes

Discussion in 'Ask A Question' started by docphi, Oct 6, 2021.

  1. docphi

    docphi Type 2 · Active Member

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    Hi there. Newly diagnosed T2D. HgA1C was 8.6 and now 7.2 with diet. Lost 12 pounds. Down to 199 pounds. My issue is that I am managing this on an hourly basis because my glucose levels will spike with even the smallest bit of complex carbs and then drop like a stone. This includes whole grain bread, brown rice, etc. It's a crazy roller coaster that I can't seem to get off. Has anybody had this experience? I'm micro-dosing carbs and eating mostly meat, vegetables, eggs, greens. I'm balancing protein, fat, carbs in what I eat. And I'm eating small portions every hour to hour and a half. It's exhausting because it's a fight right to the time I go to bed. My endo can't figure it out. He said to start Metformin and it may stabilize the highs and lows. Haven't left the house in a month. Can't work like this. Relying on my family and delivery to get groceries. Something doesn't fit here. Any ideas would be appreciated. I also have dysautonomia and am in a bit of a relapse so lots of insomnia and adrenaline surges. Not sure if that's contributing to the carb intolerance. Surely I should be able to eat a complex carb without sending my sugars into orbit and then the inevitable crash? What maintains your blood sugar when it's going low? I will say there is a bit of fear of hypoglycemia as well. Had a bad episode when this first started and it's on my mind constantly. Thanks for reading my rambling. Just a little concerned as I'd like to get back to life.
     
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  2. JoKalsbeek

    JoKalsbeek I reversed my Type 2 · Expert

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    Carbs will do that to you... Complex or no, a T2 just can't handle them properly. I ate every 3 hours when I just started out, after some bad advice, and it drove me nuts. I can only imagine how you must feel at every hour/hour and a half. I currently eat once or twice a day, which is much more relaxed...!

    Why do you fear hypo's? You haven't mentioned being on insulin or (some form of or something similar to) gliclazide, so you're not likely to get them if you use neither. There is such a thing as a false hypo, which happens when you have been high for a long time and hit normal levels; it feels exactly the same as a hypo, it just doesn't have the numbers to back it up. It's just your body freaking out because it THINKS you're low. And those go away as your body gets used to normal numbers Do you know what your glucose numbers where when it happened? Any special circumstances or meds at the time?

    "Surely I should be able to eat a complex carb"... Well, no... Some of us can get away with it, but I certainly can't. So I practically don't have them. https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/blog-entry/the-nutritional-thingy.2330/ might help some with your diet.... Because you're right, the way things are going now isn't sustainable for you, heck, it wouldn't be for anyone!

    As for the dysautonomia, adrenal spikes are basically a signal to your liver to dump glucose... So that may raise your numbers, as would insomnia... I have a feeling though that if you get your blood sugars comfortably under control, without the stress of having to eat with your eye on the clock all the time, that will get a bit better too... Stress feeds stress, after all. Not saying everything'll be magically resolved, but from the sound of it the current state of things is extremely stressful for you, and that can't be helping.

    Your liver maintains your blood sugars when you go low. It dumps some glucose in your system. That's why it's mainly T1's that hypo when they overshoot insulin, and it covers way more than the carbs they had. Or if you're a T2 on glic or something similar, and you start low carbing. I've had hypo's because I was misinformed by my endo ("It can't happen". Oooh yes, it can, when you're on gliclazide! And did!). My GP however was more open minded and let me try and figure this out with a diet... And I've been in the normal range for over 5 of my 5,5 years as a confirmed diabetic.

    You'll be okay. Just take a breath, and go over your current diet. What do you eat and drink in a day? maybe we can help sort out the carbs and find doable replacements for you. Then you should be back to three meals or less, as you wish.

    Good luck,
    Jo
     
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  3. TriciaWs

    TriciaWs Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    Other factors, including stress can affect blood sugar levels, however, if your are struggling with carbs why not reduce them right down and eat more fats to fill you up? I've relatively higher on carbs than most people here doing low carb, because my body could cope with 85g a day and up to 30g in a single meal, but I know some rarely have any carbs. It's possible to stay healthy and cut carbs drastically - just make sure you are getting essential vitamins.
     
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  4. Antje77

    Antje77 LADA · Moderator
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    Hi @docphi , welcome to the forum!
    How low do you go? Do you feel low or is your meter telling you you're well below 4?
    If you're above 4 you might be experiencing 'false hypo's'. Your hba1c is within the diabetes range (well done on the reduction!) so your body must be used to higher numbers. This means that healthy numbers can feel like a hypo.
    If you're dropping well below 4 after spiking from eating carbs, you might want to have a look at this subforum: https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/category/reactive-hypoglycemia.70/
    If carbs like whole grain bread and rise make you roller coaster, what is the reason you're eating them? They make you feel rubbish and they're affecting your blood glucose. Have you tried sticking to meat, vegetables, eggs, greens, things like that, without adding the rice or bread?
     
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  5. Resurgam

    Resurgam Type 2 (in remission!) · Expert

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    Diabetics can't deal with carbs.
    It is unlikely that a type 2 will have hypos, not without glucose reducing medication at the wrong rate so if you are, that rather calls the diagnosis into doubt.
    Many type twos eat very little carbohydrate and they let their metabolism rest for what might seem like long periods..
    I eat twice a day and saw my levels even out - but no grain, no potatoes or high carb foods, nothing over 10% carbs.
     
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  6. docphi

    docphi Type 2 · Active Member

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    No meds. Just diet. Exercise is limited to slow walks in the house as the dysautonomia has me debilitated currently. Yes, I definitely feel the false hypos. It starts around a glucose of 140 and gets worse as the glucose drops. 150-160 is my happy spot right now. I'm on a Dexcom CGM which is good and bad. When you see the downward glucose trend you start overthinking. I've been in the mid-70's and the meter said 55 in 20 minutes. This was at work and I almost passed out. Needless to say it was OJ and a banana along with the subsequent spike and crash.

    Meals are the same every day and fairly sparse and boring as I have no appetite and stomach pain from the dysautonomia.

    Breakfast - 2 egg omelet with cheese, greens, tomato, half an avocado, 1/2 slice wheat toast.

    The rest of the day is a rotation of:
    1. roast chicken, carrots, tablespoon of brown rice
    2. 3 slices turkey, half slice wheat bread, half slice cheese, greens, tomato
    3. Chili (lean beef, beans, tomato base)
    4. Boiled egg
    5. Water

    The lowest has been in the 70's. Now I don't let it get past 130-140 because of the hypo symptoms. I've tried to drop the sugar gradually, but, those symptoms still aren't going away (it's only been 6 weeks since diagnosis). I've tried not eating any carbs and the sugar still drops every hour to hour and a half. I do understand about the false hypos, however, I don't see any evidence of my liver kicking in to support the lower sugars.

    When I was first diagnosed, I ended up being hospitalized. My endo talked a bit about hypos and how to treat them and what carbs to eat, etc. So I would drop "low", feel symptomatic, and eat some fruit which would cause a huge glucose spike and then the crash which I would "treat" with a turkey sandwich. Interestingly, the carb crashing didn't happen in the hospital although I was definitely having false hypos.

    The reason I'm eating a little bit of complex carbs is that I'm trying to keep my blood sugar up a little bit and gradually bringing it down because of the false hypos which really make me feel bad. It's obviously not working well.
     
  7. Resurgam

    Resurgam Type 2 (in remission!) · Expert

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    You can't put out a fire by pouring petrol onto it.
    A type 2 diabetic without medication is not going to go hypo - you do not need to eat or drink quantities of carbs to treat a false hypo as it isn't caused by low sugar but by the sensation of blood glucose going down to levels you are not used to.
    There is a condition known as reactive hypoglycaemia which could possibly be involved - but that is something to discus with a HCP competent to diagnose it.
     
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  8. docphi

    docphi Type 2 · Active Member

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    Well said. I'm definitely not managing this properly. The only thing I will note is the one reading I had in the 70's with two arrows pointing down on the Dexcom and a "55 in 20 minutes" alert scared me immensely.
     
  9. Antje77

    Antje77 LADA · Moderator
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    Dexcom was designed with type 1's on insulin in mind, that's why it warns for hypo's!
    I think OJ and a banana are a lot of carbs if you just want to nudge your BG up a little. What about having a single bite of the banana, wait 15 minutes and then check again? If it spiked you it was more than you needed.
     
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  10. docphi

    docphi Type 2 · Active Member

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    I agree. It was overkill. It was the first week I was diagnosed and I thought no big deal I got this diabetes thing. Lol! It's funny how you fall apart when you get diagnosed. I mean, this had been going on for at least a year before diagnosis.
     
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  11. xfieldok

    xfieldok Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    If I have a (proper) hypo, I have some sweets (jelly babies) which bring my glucose up quickly. I folllow it up with a biscuit, a slower acting carb to stop the crash.

    I would ditch thee rice and bread. Mayo,if you can find a decent one, mashed into a coupled of boiled eggs makes a delicious snack.

    Before dx I drank fruit juice by the litre. I now wouldn't touch a banana with a ten foot pole.
     
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  12. Antje77

    Antje77 LADA · Moderator
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    Take your time, just keep notes on what happens when you do x or y and you'll get there!
     
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  13. xfieldok

    xfieldok Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    It takes a while to get it all umder your belt. I found it overwhelming at first. Baby steps, don't try and learn everything at once.
     
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  14. docphi

    docphi Type 2 · Active Member

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    I love fruits and ate them quite a bit before diagnosis. Now they're off limits. Lol!
     
  15. xfieldok

    xfieldok Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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  16. docphi

    docphi Type 2 · Active Member

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    I was wondering what everyone snacks on "on-the-go" if you can't have carbs? For example, shopping, work, movie, etc. There's sugar/carbs in just about everything out there. Someone suggested protein bars, but, most have some carbs/sugar alcohols. And what do you eat before working out (sans carbs)?
     
  17. docphi

    docphi Type 2 · Active Member

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    Yes, that's what I read. So I tried strawberries and blueberries and they both spiked my sugar.
     
  18. xfieldok

    xfieldok Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    In the beginning, I had a box, it contained walnuts, cubes of cheese, olives. I went keto and quite soon lost my appetite so didn't need it any more. There are all sorts of things you can make yourself if you are handy in the kitchen.

    Anything you fancy, just google but put keto first.
     
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  19. xfieldok

    xfieldok Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Depends on the quantity you had. You can overdo anything. I used to make mushroon soup. A deep bowl spiked me, a shallow bowl was perfect.
     
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  20. coby

    coby Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Did you maybe try too many? I use two strawberries cut into pieces, and if I'm having Raspberries for a change then I have six and halve them :)
     
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