Cholesterol and Statins

[Resurgam]

Well - there is bad science and even worse there is the company making the drug conducting its own trials and marking its own homework with no reviews done.
For someone brought up to use logic and the scientific method, realising that bad science has led to bad medication on a global level was a very sad discovery.
When shedloads of money are involved, no one can be trusted - possibly even me, but I have yet to be tested.

 

[AndBreathe]

Interesting new study from Norway

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/j.1365-2753.2011.01767.x

View attachment 58530

Is that from 2012? @bulkbiker ?

 

[bulkbiker]

Is that from 2012? @bulkbiker ?

Oops interesting old study from Norway... New to me and so far as I know this thread though..

Nice catch tho ta.. x

 

[AndBreathe]

Oops interesting old study from Norway... New to me and so far as I know this thread though..

Nice catch tho ta.. x

The pedant in me is strong.

 

[bulkbiker]

The pedant in me is strong.

We all love a good pedant.. and many thanks to @Oldvatr who posted it up on another thread but I thought it deserved to be here too.

 

[bulkbiker]

This one needs to be included here too...

V interesting..

 

[bulkbiker]

Slowly watching these in reverse order..

 

[bulkbiker]

And the first one

 

[Oldvatr]

This seems to be relevant to the above. It is a blog and I do not have any previous knowledge of the author.

https://www.zeroacre.com/blog/are-seed-oils-toxic

Edit to add: The article does contain linked references identified by (*) i=or similar.

 

[Oldvatr]

Does Dr Mason provide any references so we can view the data he is quoting and flashing up on the big screen. It may be that such and such study does show the POV, but as we all know, studies can be flawed and misinterpreted. I think we need more hardcore evidence than glossy videos.

 

[cdpm]

For a few years now I've been prescribed statins
But very reluctant to try them.
I finally recently did and 2 weeks in I could
Barely move and actually began feeling
I don't want to live this way. i knew I had to do
Something so I decided to try another diet change.
I already did so many for diabetes I barely have any
Diet changes left. And to take the statin a few
Days a week and just see what happens.
If I can tolerate 3 times a week I may try 4.
And I'm doing the diet change.

 

[cdpm]

For a few years now I've been prescribed statins
But very reluctant to try them.
I finally recently did and 2 weeks in I could
Barely move and actually began feeling
I don't want to live this way. i knew I had to do
Something so I decided to try another diet change.
I already did so many for diabetes I barely have any
Diet changes left. And to take the statin a few
Days a week and just see what happens.
If I can tolerate 3 times a week I may try 4.
And I'm doing the diet change.

Ops somehow it posted on me before I was done.
I also decided that if I don't see a significant
Improvement I stop taking them.
So I wrote down my lab numbers because I
Don't trust a Dr just saying o ya it's better.
I want to see the evidence.

Does this seem like a reasonable plan?
Shud I be doing something else or differently?

 

[Oldvatr]

Here we appear to have a benefit from seed oils in reducing Rheumatoid Arthritis (RA)

High erythrocyte levels of the n-6 polyunsaturated fatty acid linoleic acid are associated with lower risk of subsequent rheumatoid arthritis in a southern European nested case-control study - PubMed

Erythrocyte levels of the n-6 PUFA LA were inversely associated with risk of RA, whereas no associations were observed for other n-6 or n-3 PUFA. Further work is warranted to replicate these findings and to investigate if lower LA levels are a bystander or contributor to the process of RA...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The first thing I note is the following
"Conditional logistic regression analysis was used to estimate associations of PUFA with the development of RA, adjusting for potential confounders including body mass index, waist circumference, education level, physical activity, smoking status and alcohol intake"
Now EPIC which supplied the dietary data was a tickbox food questionaire, so the analysis later regarding n-6 and n-3 PUFA is at best a guess.

The study did sample some volunteers and measured the makeup of their red blood cells for traces of these lipid oils, which is actually quite clever - the membrain of the red cell is a lipid based structure, so will possibly reflect recently (last 3 months) consumed oil sources. However, linoeic oil is an essential nutrient that everybody has to consume about 1% minimum, and it may be that that the RBC need it for just this purpose. Which may explain why they found so much n-6 oils

Note this study found omega-3 oils were not associated at all with reduction of RA, which is a odds with other research regarding fish oil being beneficial.

The report ends with
"Further work is warranted to replicate these findings and to investigate if lower LA levels are a bystander or contributor to the process of RA development."
which is an odd thing to say

 

[Cracker-1]

Thank you for posting this, I was given Atorvastatin 40mg, I haven`t taken it and wont be. It took me just over two years to come off 34 prescribed medications, I do not want to start taking anything unless I have no choice. Information on any medication is always good to see, good or bad.

 

[Lupf]

Copied from

Consider statins for millions more people in England, NHS told

Cholesterol-lowering pills could help more people cut their risk of heart attacks and stroke, guidelines say.

www.bbc.co.uk

About 15 million more people in England could be prescribed daily cholesterol-lowering statin pills to cut their risk of heart attacks and stroke, new advice for the NHS says,
Given the very cheap price of the tablets and the possible health gains, they should be considered more often, the draft guidance says.
There can be side effects though.
There is debate about how widely this long-term treatment should be given and what associated risks are acceptable.
Statin pills rarely cause muscle pain, study finds

 

[ianf0ster]

Copied from

Consider statins for millions more people in England, NHS told

Cholesterol-lowering pills could help more people cut their risk of heart attacks and stroke, guidelines say.

www.bbc.co.uk

About 15 million more people in England could be prescribed daily cholesterol-lowering statin pills to cut their risk of heart attacks and stroke, new advice for the NHS says,
Given the very cheap price of the tablets and the possible health gains, they should be considered more often, the draft guidance says.
There can be side effects though.
There is debate about how widely this long-term treatment should be given and what associated risks are acceptable.
Statin pills rarely cause muscle pain, study finds

The reason (in statin trials) that people rarely suffer from muscle aches, is that those who do are excluded as being statin intolerant. One of the leading advocates of statins in the UK owns the patent on a test for checking whether someone is susceptible to muscle ache from statins, he says the incidence is less that 5%. Strangely when he sold the rights to the test he said the number was over 20%.
Was this just marketing? - From the experiences of myself and those of friends, I think the 20% is nearer the true figure.

 

[Oldvatr]

No mention of Statins being associated with possible trigger for T2D

Will my statins give me diabetes?

Media reports on new research has suggested taking a statin could increase your risk of diabetes more than previously thought. Should you be worried?

www.bhf.org.uk

 

[MrsA2]

If , (and it is a figure plucked from nowhere) a single tablet costs just 1p (cheap for NHS) 15 mil extra user a on a single tablet a day, will earn the producer £150,000 a day.
Not bad if you can get it.

 

[AndBreathe]

If , (and it is a figure plucked from nowhere) a single tablet costs just 1p (cheap for NHS) 15 mil extra user a on a single tablet a day, will earn the producer £150,000 a day.
Not bad if you can get it.

Atorvastatin 10mg costs 68p for 28 tablets.

I don’t take this medication. I just lifted the costs or a starter dose from the NHS Drugs Tarrif.

 

[AndBreathe]

Leaving aside whether statins are good, bad, or ugly, it is also worth noting that statin compliance rates are “disappointing”, but often not disclosed, high results in treatments being upped.

There is quite a bit of research happening around drug compliance; how to assess it, how to detect it, and improve it. This particularly prevalent for drugs where no immediate benefit is felt by the patient.