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Cholesterol has shot up since starting LCHF

Thanks Brunneria, My immediate thought is that all the info from Sikaris et al is that the magic word is Saturated. This seems to be necessary for trig and sdLDL reduction. TC no longer comes into the discussion and even LDL is sidestepped by Trig levels. This seems to be the up-to-date thinking, but is it snake oil by another name. is it being used to justify LCHF diet, and if it is, is it valid? Not convinced yet.

In my case it is largely academic, since my GP will not order the HDL/LDL/Trig test due to Practice guidelines.
 
:D I kind of LIVE on saturated fat.
Breakfast is basically cream (in coffee)
Lunch is less fatty, but may well involve cheese, butter or a Full English
Dinner is red meat (fatty cuts) about half the time. If I eat chicken, there is often cheese involved. I cook with more coconut oil than olive oil.

Can you imagine what my doc would say, if he knew this? :joyful:

Under this Epicurian Regime my Total Cholesterol rose from 5.2 to 5.4 when I raised my fats to this level, and my HDL rose by 25%. My LDL dropped a little. My trigs were previously 1.1 and dropped to 0.8 or 0.9

I also supplement krill oil and eat oily fish, eat nuts and add cream to desserts.

Drastically increasing my Sat Fat intake has definitely not harmed my Cholesterol breakdown. I won't go so far as to claim the Sat Fat has improved things, because that could be the krill oil and the reduction in carbs.

Moral of the story? I think that we have individual reactions to fat, just like we have individual reactions to carbs.

And your doc's practice guidelines are idiotic.
Without a breakdown, he is shooting himself, and his patients in the foot.

Could you get the test done privately?
 
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I'm another saturated fat eater, and low carb (up to 30g). When I reached my target weight a year ago and kept on losing I was forced to increase my fats even more. Cream, cheese, butter, mayonnaise, eggs, red meat, rapeseed oil (don't like olive oil) and loads of oily fish, blah di blah....

I was diagnosed 2 years ago, since when I have had 6 full lipid tests, including 2 since increasing the fats. On each and every test my HDL has gone up, my LDL dropped, and my triglycerides right down. (currently 0.54), although the total has remained much the same.

What is more important is the ratio between total and HDL. (which should be under 4). Your GP can't possibly assess your general health without a full lipids test. Even the Q-risk calculator used by GP's to determine CVD risk requires the ratio.
 
Hi @Bluetit1802 Thanks for sharing that. It helps me to know that the video is not telling porkies, and that it happens in real life! Well done with those trigs !
I have a battle with my GP and my DCN coming up in May (next HbA1c etc) I will not see my GP till after the vampire has done her work, so I will write to him once I have enough ammunition to push for full lipid panel. He is v. supportive of my approach, but I did fight him over statins (and won, but if he sees my TC go up I could still lose the war.) He is probably not up to date with the latest research, but does acknowledge that LDL is not the CVE trigger it was once thought of. but old habits die hard (as I find in myself here now)
I know now that trig levels are the key. I just have to convince the accountants. Having had 2 strokes and a heart attack i should get it.
 
I do lower carbs.. no rice pasta cereal or grains and very small amounts of potatoes and bread I have good oils but don't eat red meat sausages or bacon have some butter, cream and yogurt but not a great deal of these but I do eat a lot of cheese and eggs. I started this while I was prediabetic and was diagnosed T2 in November last.
My latest blood test showed my cholesterol had gone up quite bit and my doctor could not understand why as I take statins. I know she always recommends a low fat diet so I did not tell her I had been having full fat stuff. I may cut down on the the fats a bit now as with me it seems fat does not make me fat no problem with weight but it does give me higher cholesterol.
I think as we are all different things affect us in different ways and with some of us higher fat means higher cholesterol
 
I'm just from the doc's with a lovely piece of paper in my hand, the printout of my blood tests. So, after a couple of years on LCHF, HbA1c is 32, LDL 2.6 (2.0-5.3) HDL 1.8 (1.0-2.7) Trigs 0.7 and total cholesterol 4.9. Don't think I ever had so low LDL before.
I live on organic butter.
 
Brunneria said:
First reaction, @Oldvatr :)

HF doesnt have to mean masses of cream and lard.
I believe @donnellysdogs had raised TC when she switched to HF, without weight loss, but when she switched from cream and cheese to Mediterranean avocado and olive oil, her cholesterol reshuffled to the best she had ever seen (sorry DD, if i have any of the details wrong).

Second thought:
Lchf is absolutely and utterly dependent on the low carb.
This is often not visible in studies, because the general view of LC is too high to actually show the benefits. In my case, my carb threshold for comfort, weight control, blood glucose, energy levels, is about 40g carb a day. Or less. If i go higher than that, everything screws up, and i suspect that long term, my cholesterol would too, but i'm not going to test this. :)
Other people have higher carb thresholds, but if they don't find out where that threshold is, before they plunge into a HF lifestyle, they are taking a bit of a risk, because HC and HF is not a good combo, and for me, HC starts at about 50g a day. Sad but true. :(

Third thought:
The HF label is the worst possible descriptor i have ever come across. It just seems to press every button we have. But the truth is that we don't have to do HF. We can do a-bit-more-fat-so-i-don't-go-hungry, or moderate fat, or swim in lard, but we get to choose. :)

Sorry, i haven't had time to read your link, so all the above is totally off the cuff. Am on my lunch break atm, but will read the link later. :)
Click to expand...

Yes, my cholesterol levels all went in wrong direction on heavy fats such as cheese everyday, double cream and full fat yogurt everyday.

Since swopping totally to avocado's, olives, oily fish etc my cholesterol total this week came in at the lowest ever of 4.6 and all the breakdowns excellent too.
I also take plant sterols x 3 from simply supplements. I used to take them from healthspan and swopped about 2 months ago with the sterols.

I have now in recent weeks gone lactose free with yogurt each day such as alpro coconut yogurt and lactose free milk. This has been done though to help my digestive system and not the cholesterol. However, that too may have had an impact on my recent levels.

Ceetainly I had never had such high levels, nor had my hubby... Still trying to get hubby back to new GP for his cholesterol to be checked. He was put on statins after going too laden down with heavy fats... Now he's been able to come off them.. Still with sterols though. Just got to persuade him to get checked.

I also do not eat any wheat or rye products, bread, pasta, rice, potatoes, or any refined sort of flours at all. Eg I make herby bread from kale, courgette and almond flour, I make lemon, coconut and chia biscuits etc.

My diet is also low Fodmap too. So I also limit the types of fruit and veg I eat. Ie. Now I do eat avocado but, I limit myself to a 1/4 daily. I have totally given up onion and garlic which I loved...

So my recent best results could be a number of factors, but one thing for sure that I do know.... The heavy laden fats weren't suitable for me or my hubby and ceetainly raised levels to ones that we weren't happy with...
 
Totto said:
I'm just from the doc's with a lovely piece of paper in my hand, the printout of my blood tests. So, after a couple of years on LCHF, HbA1c is 32, LDL 2.6 (2.0-5.3) HDL 1.8 (1.0-2.7) Trigs 0.7 and total cholesterol 4.9. Don't think I ever had so low LDL before.
I live on organic butter.
Click to expand...

Marvellous! So pleased for you. :D
 
Pinkorchid said:
I do lower carbs.. no rice pasta cereal or grains and very small amounts of potatoes and bread I have good oils but don't eat red meat sausages or bacon have some butter, cream and yogurt but not a great deal of these but I do eat a lot of cheese and eggs. I started this while I was prediabetic and was diagnosed T2 in November last.
My latest blood test showed my cholesterol had gone up quite bit and my doctor could not understand why as I take statins. I know she always recommends a low fat diet so I did not tell her I had been having full fat stuff. I may cut down on the the fats a bit now as with me it seems fat does not make me fat no problem with weight but it does give me higher cholesterol.
I think as we are all different things affect us in different ways and with some of us higher fat means higher cholesterol
Click to expand...

Hi,

I am curious how many grams of carbs you eat a day @Pinkorchid.

Please do not think that I am criticising you, no matter what your carb intake is, but (as I mentioned above) I am convinced that the impact of fats is HIGHLY affected by the amount of carb intake (like on a see saw, where the higher carb we eat, the more damaging the fat is, and how the lower carb we go, the more of a 'free pass' we get with the fat). So whether we can tolerate fat without harm depends on our keeping below our personal carb threshold.

Edited to add the last sentence, to try and make better sense! :)
 
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Brunneria said:
Hi,

I am curious how many grams of carbs you eat a day @Pinkorchid.

Please do not think that I am criticising you, no matter what your carb intake is, but (as I mentioned above) I am convinced that the impact of fats is HIGHLY affected by the amount of carb intake (like on a see saw, where the higher carb we eat, the more damaging the fat is, and how the lower carb we go, the more of a 'free pass' we get with the fat.
Click to expand...

I don't count carbs I just eat mostly chicken the lower carb veg lots of greens salad and not much fruit,
and new potatoes maybe once a week and of course no sugar stuff. Raised cholesterol can be hereditary and my doctor thinks mine probably is. I would not have known if my parents had raised cholesterol as there was no test in their day
 
donnellysdogs said:
Yes, my cholesterol levels all went in wrong direction on heavy fats such as cheese everyday, double cream and full fat yogurt everyday.

Since swopping totally to avocado's, olives, oily fish etc my cholesterol total this week came in at the lowest ever of 4.6 and all the breakdowns excellent too.
I also take plant sterols x 3 from simply supplements. I used to take them from healthspan and swopped about 2 months ago with the sterols.

I have now in recent weeks gone lactose free with yogurt each day such as alpro coconut yogurt and lactose free milk. This has been done though to help my digestive system and not the cholesterol. However, that too may have had an impact on my recent levels.

Ceetainly I had never had such high levels, nor had my hubby... Still trying to get hubby back to new GP for his cholesterol to be checked. He was put on statins after going too laden down with heavy fats... Now he's been able to come off them.. Still with sterols though. Just got to persuade him to get checked.

I also do not eat any wheat or rye products, bread, pasta, rice, potatoes, or any refined sort of flours at all. Eg I make herby bread from kale, courgette and almond flour, I make lemon, coconut and chia biscuits etc.

My diet is also low Fodmap too. So I also limit the types of fruit and veg I eat. Ie. Now I do eat avocado but, I limit myself to a 1/4 daily. I have totally given up onion and garlic which I loved...

So my recent best results could be a number of factors, but one thing for sure that I do know.... The heavy laden fats weren't suitable for me or my hubby and ceetainly raised levels to ones that we weren't happy with...
Click to expand...
Just my point saturated animal fat does not suit all of us good oils I think are far better for some people
 
Pinkorchid said:
Just my point saturated animal fat does not suit all of us good oils I think are far better for some people
Click to expand...
I think this is a valid point. In some people high intake of saturated fats increases LDL cholesterol to unhealthy levels. My story is a good example.

LCHF has helped me immensely. I have learned about it mainly on this forum, so I am very grateful for that.

However, I think the information on which fats to eat should be more balanced. It seems the general bias is towards saturated fats. This will be OK for many and it is a matter of personal decision too. But people who have had issues with high cholesterol already before starting LCHF should be made aware that their fat intake should be based on other than saturated fats.

And as for the whole controversy around how harmful it is to have high LDL if your trigs are low, I really don't know. I wish Dr. Sikaris was right. There are certainly many doctors who would disagree with his views. I am no expert myself in this area, so to be on the safe side, I prefer that my LDL cholesterol is not high.

Another important effect of saturated fats, especially for diabetics, is that they increase insulin resistance. Like all fats but more than monounsaturated fats.
 
Oldvatr said:
hI, @Brunneria I continued to have reservations about my cholesterol levels wrt LCHF, so I did some more research beyond the youtube videos you linked me to. I have seen several articles in PubMed that now esablish sdLDL as the main marker for CHD, but none of them gave any clue as to cause or remedy. ie no link to dietary effects.

Then I found this, which seems to independently backup the Ken Sikaris claims

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.co.uk/2009/07/diet-heart-hypothesis-subdividing.html

The source is not one i recognise, but apparently Dr Kraus has published articles in PubMed.

The reason for my concern (personally) is that I am a couch potato. I can get my head around how lowering carb input will lower bgl, and eventually lead to a ketogenic metabolism. LC is not my problem HF is. If ketogenic diet means increased VLDL swishing round my tubing, surely i need to burn it off, else it becomes more stored fat i.e. trigs increase, leading to sdLDL generation. Surely, LCHF mandates increased exercise to make sure we burn fat? And what level of bgl does the diet become ketogenic? Does anyone have articles they have researched that may explain. I have watched many LCHF videos and training courses, but they seem to skirt round this simple question

Is LCHF suitable for couch potatoes and people of limited mobility?
Click to expand...

Thanks for finding this! I have seen plenty of ppl talking about the big fluffy LDLs, but this is the first time i have seen the study that started it off.

To answer your question about when does a diet become ketogenic, the number generally quoted on this forum and others is around 50g or less carbs a day. But that HAS to be approx, doesn't it? Depending on the individual height, weight, fitness, energy usage, food intake v basal metabolic rate...

Have you seen this calculator?
 
I think the problem I have with Dr Sikaris delightful lecture, is that the mechanics of what he describes relies on two things (A) that you are in ketogenic portion of the diet (so my dieticians warning not to go below 120 gms carb a day will not do it) and most importantly (B) that you are using the extra VLDL up and not leaving any spare LDL (so my sedentary lifestyle is not working it either) So LCHF may turn on the taps, but that fat has to go somewhere. I think DrSikaris has oversimplified the process description,and seems to gloss over this very important factor. Maybe its an inconvenient truth? It seems to be something that is generally not discussed.
 
I made big improvements in my cholesterol in my first 3 months on LCHF. Total cholesterol came down to 5.8, LDLs were 3.5 HLDs 1.3 and trigs 2.1. Six months later and it's now total 7, LDL 4.5, HLD 1.9 and trigs 1.3. Better mix but higher LDLs.

During those 6 months I've gotten more of my fats from dairy than in the first 3 months (I was having an avocado each day but I've really gone off them). So I think there's a link which I'm now going to test.

Having talked my doctor out of prescribing statins I'm going to increase my non-dairy fats and retest cholesterol in the summer.
 
@Oldvatr

Good point.
Because of my reactive hypoglycaemia, going higher than 50g carbs isn't really an option for me. Although I can get away with 80g on special occasions.
- which kind of goes back to the seesaw I mentioned in a post recently.
Unless your carbs are low enough, then the high fat part is a bad idea.

But then, from what I have seen of the forum, people tend to gravitate to their personal diet as soon as they start taking notice of their home bg test results. I see quite a few (usually) men trundling happily along on low carb medium fat, losing a bit of weight and troughing 130g carbs. I get a bit envious! Then I see quite a few (usually women) who have to drop to less than 50g, sometimes less than 20g carbs. And there are a lot of people who cover the range between. So we just have to tailor things individually.

Did your dietician give you a valid reason why they don't want you going below 120g carbs a day? That may simply be too near the middle of the carb/fat seesaw for you see any cholesterol benefits.
 
Brunneria said:
@Oldvatr
Did your dietician give you a valid reason why they don't want you going below 120g carbs a day? That may simply be too near the middle of the carb/fat seesaw for you see any cholesterol benefits.
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No reason, but I suspect that it was because I did not need to lose weight. Thus for me just reducing carb input to asssist bgl lowering may not require me to go ketogenic. Maybe i should be considering LCMF, I think the fat is necessary to keep the appetite demands down, and to provide energy if I overdo the exercise (fat chance there)

I think MF is for me for a while now. So far bgl has dropped to a level I am reasonably happy with (currently averaging 6,7 for the last week) and this is after halving my meds, I probably should not do HF until I have seen my GP and got agreement to do the full lipid panel. I converted to butter several years ago after studying trans fats studies in US.
 
The 120g carbs may go to that - sadly widespread - myth that the brain needs 120g carbs a day or it explodes or something.

Ridiculous, but widely believed by a lot of ppl who should know better, by now! Many dieticians and medical professionals are included in that group. ;)
 
The 120g of carbs a day recommendation is based on a study (the Canadian Diabetes standard of care document references it) that concluded that adult brains use 120g of glucose a day. They took this info and decided that this means an adult needs to consume 120g of carbs a day, even though the study does not say this.
 
First of all - it's extremely common if not normal for your blood lipids to go haywire when you lose a lot of weight fast. My triglyceride reading was so high it made my LDL unreadable (or some such thing!) Because your fat stores are being 'burned through' and fatty acids released into your blood stream. Lots of them! I lost about 15-20 kg by going moderated carbs and walking heaps in the first three months after diagnosis. After that my trig reading was good, and at the same time as my weight settled.

Next - I don't understand embracing and eating LCHF and still buying the line that cholesterol is a real indicator of heart/artery risk, and that saturated fat is bad!

I do understand we live in 'interesting times' when it comes to dietary guidelines, about the role of cholesterol, and what the professionals prescribe for all and diabetics in particular, and ordinary folk get caught between two hugely different ways of looking at dietary fat. It ain't easy - for any of us!

But, I do HUGELY recommend, if you are eating LCHF, that you read up on it as much as possible, read Volek and Phinney, Dr Dahlkvist, Dr Eenfeldt (the diet doctor/Doktorkost). Also the Paleo bible writers Robb Wolf and Loren Cordain (and ALL the fabulous bloggers on both LCHF and Paleo online.) You need to feel informed and better about what you are doing! Even if it's listening to webinars while you cook your LCHF dishes. Or follow links in the forum.

And of course, it's really great that folks are talking about it heaps in the forum.
 
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