confused with newly started Newcastle Diet after just one day lol.

[suggar daddy]

Hi all, I have been on the Tesco ultra slim for just over a week. As well as the shakes I have been having salad type supplements for the fibre content. ( avoid constipation) My glucose level now is 4.6. I only test first thing in the morning as any other time of the day the glucose levels can be anywhere. I've lost about 12 lbs and feel great. My glucose levels before were at max 10.4 but I still needed to lose weight. As far as I can tell although it's early days my glucose levels are now the same as someone without diabetes!
Les

 

[Yorksman]

I've lost about 12 lbs and feel great. My glucose levels before were at max 10.4 but I still needed to lose weight. As far as I can tell although it's early days my glucose levels are now the same as someone without diabetes!

Yes that's what they found in the Counterpoint Study, the fasting glucose levels are normalised quickly. But that is by controlling food intake.

However, you need to continue to lose weight so that enough fat is lost in the liver and pancreas. That will restore the insulin response to levels similar to those in non diabetic individuals.

The key is to normalise the liver and pancreatic triglycerides which are too high in type 2 diabetics and which reduce the insulin response.

 

[Andrew26]

Thanks for those charts Yorksman, makes it really clear! It's great that the fasting blood glucose levels come down so quickly on the diet, but we all need to go the full distance to stand a chance of achieving the result we want.

 

[jimmyr]

Hi all, i am pleased with all the response on the thread and a lot of info, again Thank you all.
Well today is the end of third day so thought i would post results.

Started three days ago, breakfast readings 27.2 after 25.6. Lunch, 23.0 after 16.5, Dinner, No before, after 11.8.
15/01/14 breakfast 11.1 after 20.9, Lunch 16.1 after 15.1, dinner again no before after 9.9.
Today, breakfast 9.5 after 11.7, Lunch 8.9 after 7.6, Dinner 5.8 after 7.5, Not read before supper of stir fry veg, but after 8.3.

When i got the sudden drop to 5.8 although i felt fine i was a little concerned so rang to speak to diabetic Nurse but she was not there, was told she would ring tomorrow at beginning of surgery. Anyway got a call from a Doctor, when i told her what i was doing and my concerns she said that levels had dropped far to quickly in three days, made me promise to eat a proper meal if they fall below 7.0, at least until i have spoken with the Nurse.

Jim

 

[jimmyr]

Just all of a sudden felt pretty bad, got to the Loo and sicked all my main meal up Hmm what to do now, should i have a shake, check Blood sugar levels or what lol.

 

[2christine]

Start by taking blood test

Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk HD

 

[douglas99]

Just all of a sudden felt pretty bad, got to the Loo and sicked all my main meal up Hmm what to do now, should i have a shake, check Blood sugar levels or what lol.

Don't know what to say, the drop is fast, and the insulin isn't anything I know about.
Listen to the doctor, and do the diet with supervision would be the only advice.

 

[Yorksman]

Karen Heron, the dietician on the Counterpoint study writes:

"During the first few days of the diet, you may experience some symptoms like:

• headache
• dizziness
• tiredness
• hunger
• cold

These are expected as your body adjust to using your fat store as energy source. The symptoms will improve after 2 - 4 days. It is important to keep up your fluid intake andremember to wrap up warmly!"

You might like to read Richard Doughty's experience: "Type 2 diabetes and the diet that cured me"

 

[douglas99]

He wasn't on insulin and going down 23 points in 3 days is too fast.
I'm all for reducing bs, halting diabetes, and want to give this diet a go myself, but it doesn't seem to be going right. It can't hurt to put it off for a couple of days and sort it out.

 

[Yorksman]

He wasn't on insulin and going down 23 points in 3 days is too fast.

Rate of decline has nothing to do with it. He is still above the safe lower limit. With meagre ingested glucose sources, the body is forced to convert glucose from non carbohydrate carbon sources such as the glucongenic amino acids. As Karen Heron states, "your body adjust to using your fat store as energy source". I put the link up for gluconeogenesis earlier in the thread.

If anyone is interested in the biochemistry, see Food Intake and Starvation Induce Metabolic Changes or if you want the basic summary, just read the link to gluconeogenesis that I posted earlier in the thread.

 

[douglas99]

Rate of decline has nothing to do with it. He is still above the safe lower limit. With meagre ingested glucose sources, the body is forced to convert glucose from non carbohydrate carbon sources such as the glucongenic amino acids. As Karen Heron states, "your body adjust to using your fat store as energy source". I put the link up for gluconeogenesis earlier in the thread.

If anyone is interested in the biochemistry, see Food Intake and Starvation Induce Metabolic Changes or if you want the basic summary, just read the link to gluconeogenesis that I posted earlier in the thread.

Too fast a rate of decline has it's own risks.
It's never a race to get bs down.

 

[Yorksman]

Too fast a rate of decline has it's own risks.
It's never a race to get bs down.

And where are these risks explained? Do you have any references? No, it's not a race, no one said it was. I don't know what you even mention that. But, you have asserted twice now that too rapid a decline in blood glucose levels is too much and I would like to know where you have obtained this information. As long as BG levels remain above a certain minimum, roughly around the 4.0 which they do in this case, I have seen nothing to indicate any danger. Just supply the reference you cite. That's all.

In particular, I would like you to quantify what these risks are. What happenes when blood glucose levels fall quickly yet still remain above 4.0 What is it about a rapid fall that is risky? We are not talking about entering a hypoglycemic state. We are still within safe limits. How does rapid fall by itself pose a risk?

 

[catherinecherub]

The risk that I would be worried about is if Jimmy has background retinopathy as a rapid fall can aggrevate the condition and cause permanent damage.
According to Jimmy's profile he is taking three diabetes medicines and insulin and I think his Dr. needs to be heavily involved so that dose adjustments can be made if necessary.. We are not experts and Jim has multiple health problems.
http://www.diabeticretinopathy.org.uk/retinopathyprogression.htm#co

 

[douglas99]

The op's on warfarin with unstable angina as well as the diabetes meds. There may also be an issue with blood viscosity, as the level of blood glucose decreases, and the level of hydration in the body increases after the kidneys stop trying to flush the sugar away, and a possible variation in blood pressure accompanying it with a very fast change.

 

[jimmyr]

Hi Guys, i have just woken up, thank you for responding,. Well last inght i thought i was going to die, it really was that bad, i managed to get just one Test and it was 9.2, after i done the test i just dropped the meter and pricker i could not hold them, i could not pick up the phone, i could not grip anything, as said i thought i was going to Die, i found myself murmuring "Please help me", but just sort of whimpering it, i was sick 6 times and each time was productive, i was in the Toilet and everything was coming away from both ends literally, sweat was running from my head and neck, no pain at all just dying.
i have awoken feeling well again, cant remember going to sleep, but have awoken feeling just fine, feels like it never happened, i feel fine.

I did not was the peppers, and maybe, just maybe it was bad food poisoning, but now i know there is nothing inside of me, nothing at all. going to do my before Breaky Blood test now, will tell you the results.

Thanks for listening.

Jim

 

[jimmyr]

Karen Heron, the dietician on the Counterpoint study writes:

"During the first few days of the diet, you may experience some symptoms like:

• headache
• dizziness
• tiredness
• hunger
• cold

These are expected as your body adjust to using your fat store as energy source. The symptoms will improve after 2 - 4 days. It is important to keep up your fluid intake andremember to wrap up warmly!"
You might like to read Richard Doughty's experience: "Type 2 diabetes and the diet that cured me"

Hi Yorksman my symptoms were nothing as any of those you describe in your quote, i could not move at worst times when they waved over me, as i have said i feel now that they were caused from heavy food poisoning judging by the stuff that came from my insides. Just strange that i feel normal again right now, think i will stick to cauliflower, although the peppers were firm and crisp i cannot say just how long they had been in the fridge lol.
Jim

 

[douglas99]

And where are these risks explained? Do you have any references? No, it's not a race, no one said it was. I don't know what you even mention that. But, you have asserted twice now that too rapid a decline in blood glucose levels is too much and I would like to know where you have obtained this information. As long as BG levels remain above a certain minimum, roughly around the 4.0 which they do in this case, I have seen nothing to indicate any danger. Just supply the reference you cite. That's all.

In particular, I would like you to quantify what these risks are. What happenes when blood glucose levels fall quickly yet still remain above 4.0 What is it about a rapid fall that is risky? We are not talking about entering a hypoglycemic state. We are still within safe limits. How does rapid fall by itself pose a risk?

If you look at the study, if I remember correctly, all the participants were under 10 mmol/L to start, as your first graph shows.

 

[VinnyJames]

I would strongly advise that you come off the diet Jimmy and only do it under medical supervision.
Best of luck.


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[jimmyr]

Had my Breakfast Shake and before it my levels are at 8.2, not been there in the morning since i don't know when, will check in two and half hours see where they are, i have taken my insulin but am worried about the two Metformin and Glictlizide, they may make it go to low this time, Oh well
Although my levels are much much better i feel that i Should Heed VinnyJames advise and wait till i have been back to the doctors on the 29th, or see what the nurse says later when she rings.

 

[douglas99]

Had my Breakfast Shake and before it my levels are at 8.2, not been there in the morning since i don't know when, will check in two and half hours see where they are, i have taken my insulin but am worried about the two Metformin and Glictlizide, they may make it go to low this time, Oh well
Although my levels are much much better i feel that i Should Heed VinnyJames advise and wait till i have been back to the doctors on the 29th, or see what the nurse says later when she rings.

I think you should. A day or two's delay won't make any difference, even a week or two.
You should also consider the evening meal, it is supposed to be a light easy meal, as you're training your stomach to get used to a couple of shakes, and a bulky meal will strain it. The diet sheet is mainly salad and soup. The same is true at the end of the diet. You need to plan what foods you are switching back onto, and slowly introduce them, again to avoid overloading.