Covid and Work, Covid Advice and General Chat

[Themis789]

As far as I know they are still recruiting. They are doubling the number of Work Coaches in the Job Centres. The department is the DWP. It was only announced at the beginning of July, so I imagine they are still recruiting.

Thankyou I’ll take another look

 

[HSSS]

The teaching unions are asking that pupils wear masks in secondary schools next term despite the lack of any evidence that kids pass infection to each other or to adults. But there again nothing about this seems to be based on rational evidence or even any discussion of the risks (physical and psychological) to young people of wearing a sweaty bit of cloth all day versus the actual benefits of doing so.

Along with a lack of evidence that they are any different in their ability to spread the disease, at this age, than the rest of the population. It works both ways. And in most other situations people are able to maintain some distance or have screens etc, 30 adult sized bodies in a classroom cannot even manage a meter let alone two. It would be based on exactly the same evidence used for wearing them elsewhere I would assume. Masks should be regularly changed avoided the same sweaty mask all day scenario.

For the record the government guidelines currently do not require face covering in secondary schools. My child’s school definitely isn’t according to their plan and in fact discuss removal of masks on arrival at school implying but not actually banning masks.

 

[Max68]

Just thought I'd give everyone the heads up that I spoke to my GP this morning re my latest results and asked her about the work situation. Basically GP's (or mine at least) are now going by Government guidelines, the same as employers, so I certainly wouldn't be signed off any more re Covid/diabetes at the current time. So the trust seems to be going with Boris despite some of the more concerning stats and given his performance in this whole saga my personal opinion is that trust is misplaced. But hey ho what can you do unless Diabetes UK or some other body decides otherwise. MY GP said any mask will do and thought a visor was overkill, although if no one else in my school wears a mask it's fairly pointless as the whole point of masks is to protect others not the wearer. Was quite surprised as she signed me off pretty hasty a couple of months ago!

 

[JRT]

Just thought I'd give everyone the heads up that I spoke to my GP this morning re my latest results and asked her about the work situation. Basically GP's (or mine at least) are now going by Government guidelines, the same as employers, so I certainly wouldn't be signed off any more re Covid/diabetes at the current time. So the trust seems to be going with Boris despite some of the more concerning stats and given his performance in this whole saga my personal opinion is that trust is misplaced. But hey ho what can you do unless Diabetes UK or some other body decides otherwise. MY GP said any mask will do and thought a visor was overkill, although if no one else in my school wears a mask it's fairly pointless as the whole point of masks is to protect others not the wearer. Was quite surprised as she signed me off pretty hasty a couple of months ago!

The only hope is things seem to change almost by the day so a lot can in a month. Hopefully its something positive. . It does seem one step forward two back. The only useful advice is social distancing, masks to protect others,and dont touch your face. The impact of situations where you cant do that I.e.indoors for prolonged periods seems to be put to one side. Meanwhile I will avoid kissing my cats,not that I ever did anyway as

 

[JohnEGreen]

I wonder if I am unavoidably in close proximity to some one who is not wearing a mask but I am is it that I am wearing a mask to protect that person or am I trying to protect my self from their exhaled potentially virus laden breath the mask I am wearing may not be 100% effective but it will reduce the risk of infection.

And don't forget we are all counted in that group of people we term as others.

 

[HSSS]

I wonder if I am unavoidably in close proximity to some one who is not wearing a mask but I am is it that I am wearing a mask to protect that person or am I trying to protect my self from their exhaled potentially virus laden breath the mask I am wearing may not be 100% effective but it will reduce the risk of infection.

And don't forget we are all counted in that group of people we term as others.

Well I’d rather they exhaled onto a mask that will filter at least some of the virus than directly onto my mouth and nose that won’t filter any of it. If I was knowingly exposed to this situation I’d change the mask ASAP afterwards too. This is why in the height of the pandemic here I also wore a visor to protect the exterior of my mask from projected droplets and will do both again if I have to be in close quarters with people (which currently I don’t do).

 

[HSSS]

Re visors, just saw this about their effectiveness from a US based source https://apple.news/AjrL04To_TsefMaBAiS6KFg

 

[JohnEGreen]

I also wear gloves when out and about you do not know who has touched a surface before you this was brought home to me years ago as cross contamination was something we had to be very aware of in the podiatry clinic with surfaces that were touched or handled by different people during the day.

 

[Tannith]

The government’s “work from home” guidance is due to end next week in an attempt to boost the economy and encourage office workers to support city centre businesses such as sandwich shops, pubs and gyms.

However, employers are getting resistance from staff who say that social distancing restrictions and health risks have made them anxious about returning.

Mark Read, chief executive of WPP, the advertising group, which employs 10,000 people in the UK, said: “It’s a challenge ensuring our people feel safe commuting into work and being in an office.” Only about 1 per cent of its workforce is back. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/...144_10083546&CMP=TNLEmail_118918_10083546_144

 

[Tannith]

The government’s “work from home” guidance is due to end next week in an attempt to boost the economy and encourage office workers to support city centre businesses such as sandwich shops, pubs and gyms.

However, employers are getting resistance from staff who say that social distancing restrictions and health risks have made them anxious about returning.

Mark Read, chief executive of WPP, the advertising group, which employs 10,000 people in the UK, said: “It’s a challenge ensuring our people feel safe commuting into work and being in an office.” Only about 1 per cent of its workforce is back. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/...144_10083546&CMP=TNLEmail_118918_10083546_144

And again
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/..._medium=email&utm_content=144_10094363&CMP=TN I wonder if that could be partly to avoid the cost of putting in screens etc which they hope might be unnecesary in a few months time when we might have a vaccine.

 

[Brunneria]

And again
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/..._medium=email&utm_content=144_10094363&CMP=TN I wonder if that could be partly to avoid the cost of putting in screens etc which they hope might be unnecesary in a few months time when we might have a vaccine.

I had a very interesting online meeting with my manager this week.
It was a fairly detailed discussion/assessment about how I felt about returning to the office.
Fascinating.
It is an obligatory assessment that they are doing for everyone, so the fact I have been working from home for the past 3-4 years did not prevent me being included.

When asked 'how do you feel about turning up to work in the office now?' I was perfectly honest.
I said that the building is a 1900s contruction, with no air con, no through flow for fresh air, and windows that only open about 4 inches at the top. The building has been gutted and remodelled inside to create a few large open plan areas for hot desking, using small desks and a few small meeting rooms. Some of the meeting rooms have no windows. There has NEVER been adequate ventilation. In light of the information that is now circulating about how viruses are spread (and I am not just talking about coronaviruses or this COV-19), then I would have absolutely no confidence that a one-way system, screens and social distancing would be adequate.

I realise that people have been working in these conditions (and FAR FAR worse!) for decades, but that doesn't mean we can't learn and improve, does it?

Apparently my line manager has been getting feedback from other staff along the lines of
'who cares about social distancing and the office? I don't want to go back there because now I have adjusted to home working I prefer it. Why would I want to go back?'
and
'I don't see how, with our office, and current social distancing rules, they can get enough workers in there to be worth paying the costs of running the building.'

 

[Max68]

Maybe I've been a bit over dramatic but regardless I have sent this letter to my MP.

Dear

I thought I would write to you with regard to my concerns as a diabetic in these strange times with the Coronavirus epidemic.

I ask what the Government plan to do with regard to safeguarding us diabetics, along with other clinically vulnerable people, considering statistics apparently show that 1 in 4 diabetics who end up in hospital die?

On the Government website we diabetics are down as clinically vulnerable and are still advised to stringently social distance. However, I work in a school as a Learning Support Assistant and whilst I have been working at home since late March, (albeit on a reduced hours contract and pay), due to the Government advice at the time, I am due back in September because the Government wants all children back at school and yet it’s absolutely clear and obvious that you cannot social distance correctly and safely in a school.

For sure I am allowed to wear a mask but masks in schools are not mandatory so if I am the only one wearing a mask I am not protected at all because as you know masks are only effective to try and protect others rather than the wearer.

Our school was kept open for children with care plans and those whose parents were key workers but within two weeks the school had a case of Covid so had to shut again. Thankfully I was working from home. So it is plain to see that once September comes and the Autumn/Winter approaches this WILL happen again. Even the Government have admitted to be concerned about a second wave and it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to work out that this WILL happen.

My GP has been very sympathetic and feels that I should continue to work from home but is bound by Government guidelines. My school too purely goes by Government advice but as I am sure you would admit Government handling of this epidemic could have been better to be brutally honest so GP’s and Schools are following what is clearly flawed advice.

You are trying to protect the NHS and claim that you are trying to protect the vulnerable but how am I being protected by being forced back into the classroom? I use click and collect for groceries, I social distance if out and have not, and will not visit a shop, barber, restaurant, cinema or pub until we either have a vaccine or some other form of immunity. In a nutshell I can be in control of my own personal risk but I cannot be in control in the workplace which renders my own personal risk strategy as useless. I cannot decide to leave my employment because you cannot claim Universal Credit if you leave your job voluntarily even if by leaving I am potentially saving my life.

At schools there will hundreds/thousands of clinically vulnerable students and staff and come the Autumn Term the idea of sending all back into the classroom will NOT be saving the NHS! I fully understand the mental state and education of children but what will deaths of students or staff do to the mental state of a child?

So I respectfully ask why I am being asked to play a game of Russian Roulette with my health when the Government themselves have classed me as clinically vulnerable but at the same time are forcing me back into a workplace where I cannot be safe?

Kind regards,

 

[JRT]

Maybe I've been a bit over dramatic but regardless I have sent this letter to my MP.

Dear

I thought I would write to you with regard to my concerns as a diabetic in these strange times with the Coronavirus epidemic.

I ask what the Government plan to do with regard to safeguarding us diabetics, along with other clinically vulnerable people, considering statistics apparently show that 1 in 4 diabetics who end up in hospital die?

On the Government website we diabetics are down as clinically vulnerable and are still advised to stringently social distance. However, I work in a school as a Learning Support Assistant and whilst I have been working at home since late March, (albeit on a reduced hours contract and pay), due to the Government advice at the time, I am due back in September because the Government wants all children back at school and yet it’s absolutely clear and obvious that you cannot social distance correctly and safely in a school.

For sure I am allowed to wear a mask but masks in schools are not mandatory so if I am the only one wearing a mask I am not protected at all because as you know masks are only effective to try and protect others rather than the wearer.

Our school was kept open for children with care plans and those whose parents were key workers but within two weeks the school had a case of Covid so had to shut again. Thankfully I was working from home. So it is plain to see that once September comes and the Autumn/Winter approaches this WILL happen again. Even the Government have admitted to be concerned about a second wave and it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to work out that this WILL happen.

My GP has been very sympathetic and feels that I should continue to work from home but is bound by Government guidelines. My school too purely goes by Government advice but as I am sure you would admit Government handling of this epidemic could have been better to be brutally honest so GP’s and Schools are following what is clearly flawed advice.

You are trying to protect the NHS and claim that you are trying to protect the vulnerable but how am I being protected by being forced back into the classroom? I use click and collect for groceries, I social distance if out and have not, and will not visit a shop, barber, restaurant, cinema or pub until we either have a vaccine or some other form of immunity. In a nutshell I can be in control of my own personal risk but I cannot be in control in the workplace which renders my own personal risk strategy as useless. I cannot decide to leave my employment because you cannot claim Universal Credit if you leave your job voluntarily even if by leaving I am potentially saving my life.

At schools there will hundreds/thousands of clinically vulnerable students and staff and come the Autumn Term the idea of sending all back into the classroom will NOT be saving the NHS! I fully understand the mental state and education of children but what will deaths of students or staff do to the mental state of a child?

So I respectfully ask why I am being asked to play a game of Russian Roulette with my health when the Government themselves have classed me as clinically vulnerable but at the same time are forcing me back into a workplace where I cannot be safe?

Kind regards,

Max68 that is a brilliant letter sums up the situation perfectly and it will be interesting to see how your MP replies.
I emailed my MP a few months ago, I think it was part of the diabetes uk campaign. I got a reply about 6 weeks later that obviously generic one expressing concern but basically follow guidelines.
Interestingly I'm now being strongly encouraged by my youngest daughter to go and get a haircut! She is very sympathetic and not being unkind by the way! She went yesterday and its covid safe.
Her and her fiance would thoroughly cleancar and take me there. There would be no one else in the salon other than hairdresser. My intention would be to go in with wet hair and quick cut,not even sure about having it dried.
It is quite an interesting proposition. My daughter feels it's safe.
It would involve sharing a car with my daughter who works in a care home and her fiance who works in a covid test centre(hes probably less risky than her although she is tested weekly).
Interestingly government guidelines still only recommend doing this ie sharing a car if no other alternative and if absolutely necessary. Hmm.
I like my hairdresser and she is a responsible person but after an initial flurry of younger people her appointment book is pretty much empty as older clients dont want to risk it!
On the one hand I dont want to look as though I'm being over dramatic to the point of paranoia on the other it doesnt seem a particularly sensible thing to do! I may look like a scarecrow for a while yet!
Sorry to take over your excellent post but in some ways it sums up the current situation and the conflicting advice and individual thoughts about risk in all areas.
The return to work remains the most concerning. Personally I've decided I wont be returning to my current job,theres still a lot of issues to be resolved but I realise I'm lucky in that I have a choice.

 

[Tannith]

Max68 that is a brilliant letter sums up the situation perfectly and it will be interesting to see how your MP replies.
I emailed my MP a few months ago, I think it was part of the diabetes uk campaign. I got a reply about 6 weeks later that obviously generic one expressing concern but basically follow guidelines.
Interestingly I'm now being strongly encouraged by my youngest daughter to go and get a haircut! She is very sympathetic and not being unkind by the way! She went yesterday and its covid safe.
Her and her fiance would thoroughly cleancar and take me there. There would be no one else in the salon other than hairdresser. My intention would be to go in with wet hair and quick cut,not even sure about having it dried.
It is quite an interesting proposition. My daughter feels it's safe.
It would involve sharing a car with my daughter who works in a care home and her fiance who works in a covid test centre(hes probably less risky than her although she is tested weekly).
Interestingly government guidelines still only recommend doing this ie sharing a car if no other alternative and if absolutely necessary. Hmm.
I like my hairdresser and she is a responsible person but after an initial flurry of younger people her appointment book is pretty much empty as older clients dont want to risk it!
On the one hand I dont want to look as though I'm being over dramatic to the point of paranoia on the other it doesnt seem a particularly sensible thing to do! I may look like a scarecrow for a while yet!
Sorry to take over your excellent post but in some ways it sums up the current situation and the conflicting advice and individual thoughts about risk in all areas.
The return to work remains the most concerning. Personally I've decided I wont be returning to my current job,theres still a lot of issues to be resolved but I realise I'm lucky in that I have a choice.

I wouldn't. Why take any unnecessary risk? My son cut my hair for me. I was surprised that it looked really nice though he has no experience whatever.

 

[Max68]

Max68 that is a brilliant letter sums up the situation perfectly and it will be interesting to see how your MP replies.
I emailed my MP a few months ago, I think it was part of the diabetes uk campaign. I got a reply about 6 weeks later that obviously generic one expressing concern but basically follow guidelines.
Interestingly I'm now being strongly encouraged by my youngest daughter to go and get a haircut! She is very sympathetic and not being unkind by the way! She went yesterday and its covid safe.
Her and her fiance would thoroughly cleancar and take me there. There would be no one else in the salon other than hairdresser. My intention would be to go in with wet hair and quick cut,not even sure about having it dried.
It is quite an interesting proposition. My daughter feels it's safe.
It would involve sharing a car with my daughter who works in a care home and her fiance who works in a covid test centre(hes probably less risky than her although she is tested weekly).
Interestingly government guidelines still only recommend doing this ie sharing a car if no other alternative and if absolutely necessary. Hmm.
I like my hairdresser and she is a responsible person but after an initial flurry of younger people her appointment book is pretty much empty as older clients dont want to risk it!
On the one hand I dont want to look as though I'm being over dramatic to the point of paranoia on the other it doesnt seem a particularly sensible thing to do! I may look like a scarecrow for a while yet!
Sorry to take over your excellent post but in some ways it sums up the current situation and the conflicting advice and individual thoughts about risk in all areas.
The return to work remains the most concerning. Personally I've decided I wont be returning to my current job,theres still a lot of issues to be resolved but I realise I'm lucky in that I have a choice.

It's interesting actually as a friend of mines wife is a barber and yesterday she made £11 quid. One haircut all day. People generally aren't going, to her barbers anyway, and she feels in a quandary because on the one hand she can't survive on one haircut a day but on the other hand she is quite relieved no one is coming in as less customers is less risk. I was surprised to hear though that in her barbers shop she has to wear PPE but customers don't which I found quite odd!

Re sharing a car it's a difficult one. Since returning to golf I have been driving myself even though pre covid I would have shared with my playing partners, who are either a father and his adult son or one of my best mates. The father is retired and son working from home and they have offered the usual lift but I'm still not quite sure! However it does seem a bit pointless petrol wise for two cars to drive 35 mile round trip when we only live 5 minutes away from each other!! I will continue on my own though but no-one judges.

That was my point in the letter. If we wish to be cautious in our personal lives we can be but we can't at work so it kind of defeats the object regarding the safety decisions we have in place in our personal lives.

Re the hair cut I'm just going to keep doing mine with the beard trimmers. Saves 14 quid a pop each time anyway and no-one has laughed at it yet!!!

 

[urbanracer]

Max68 that is a brilliant letter sums up the situation perfectly and it will be interesting to see how your MP replies.
I emailed my MP a few months ago, I think it was part of the diabetes uk campaign. I got a reply about 6 weeks later that obviously generic one expressing concern but basically follow guidelines.
Interestingly I'm now being strongly encouraged by my youngest daughter to go and get a haircut! She is very sympathetic and not being unkind by the way! She went yesterday and its covid safe.
Her and her fiance would thoroughly cleancar and take me there. There would be no one else in the salon other than hairdresser. My intention would be to go in with wet hair and quick cut,not even sure about having it dried.
It is quite an interesting proposition. My daughter feels it's safe.
It would involve sharing a car with my daughter who works in a care home and her fiance who works in a covid test centre(hes probably less risky than her although she is tested weekly).
Interestingly government guidelines still only recommend doing this ie sharing a car if no other alternative and if absolutely necessary. Hmm.
I like my hairdresser and she is a responsible person but after an initial flurry of younger people her appointment book is pretty much empty as older clients dont want to risk it!
On the one hand I dont want to look as though I'm being over dramatic to the point of paranoia on the other it doesnt seem a particularly sensible thing to do! I may look like a scarecrow for a while yet!
Sorry to take over your excellent post but in some ways it sums up the current situation and the conflicting advice and individual thoughts about risk in all areas.
The return to work remains the most concerning. Personally I've decided I wont be returning to my current job,theres still a lot of issues to be resolved but I realise I'm lucky in that I have a choice.

I went to the barber 12 days ago. I ask him if he wants me to wear a face mask and he replies - no. He puts a face mask on himself and starts snipping away. Several minutes later, I could feel his breath on the side of my face and I look up (in the mirror) and his surgical style face mask has slipped down so that it no longer covers his nose - fantastic! Thankfully there's not much evidence of Covid-19 around these parts and I am nearly at the end of the incubation period with no ill effects yet.

My employer is asking people to start returning to the office from Monday 3rd August with 50% attendance on some strange rota concocted by HR. I do note that the reproduction rate (R-Number ) is reportedly increasing already so it will be interesting to see how long this lasts.

 

[JRT]

I wouldn't. Why take any unnecessary risk? My son cut my hair for me. I was surprised that it looked really nice though he has no experience whatever.

I must admit looking at it in black and white its seems an very unwise thing to do. My daughter has the kindest of intentions but would be the first to admit shes not one for watching the news etc. Shes sensible, she has to be because of her job. Shes probably not even aware of the current rumblings about rise in infections etc. I've come this far safely . A haircut would be lovely but it's not essential.
Personally I've had my wobbles over past month about whether I'm being over dramatic. I think I will keep experimenting with the hair rollers, very 1970s!. Any attempts at persuading will be met with government guidelines,after all if they think it inadvisable enough to put in writing it's probably a very bad idea to do it!

 

[lucylocket61]

why is all the covid emphasis on death rates? Long Tail Covid-19 is a thing, for many people. Its real and awful, and being ignored when making risk assessment and lockdown changes.

 

[JRT]

It's interesting actually as a friend of mines wife is a barber and yesterday she made £11 quid. One haircut all day. People generally aren't going, to her barbers anyway, and she feels in a quandary because on the one hand she can't survive on one haircut a day but on the other hand she is quite relieved no one is coming in as less customers is less risk. I was surprised to hear though that in her barbers shop she has to wear PPE but customers don't which I found quite odd!

Re sharing a car it's a difficult one. Since returning to golf I have been driving myself even though pre covid I would have shared with my playing partners, who are either a father and his adult son or one of my best mates. The father is retired and son working from home and they have offered the usual lift but I'm still not quite sure! However it does seem a bit pointless petrol wise for two cars to drive 35 mile round trip when we only live 5 minutes away from each other!! I will continue on my own though but no-one judges.

That was my point in the letter. If we wish to be cautious in our personal lives we can be but we can't at work so it kind of defeats the object regarding the safety decisions we have in place in our personal lives.

Re the hair cut I'm just going to keep doing mine with the beard trimmers. Saves 14 quid a pop each time anyway and no-one has laughed at it yet!!!

Thankyou. Yes it does seem to vary tremendously in barbers/ hairdressers. Some are exceptionally strict with a one in one out policy, gloves/mask/ visor for hairdresser. Disposable towels/gowns. Thoroughly cleaning between each client. Some it's a lot like pre Covid!
I know my hair dresser has done a covid safety course. Theres some info I can get off my daughter but a lot i cant. The hairdresser was putting a lot of photos on Facebook of clients,which she does anyway. A lot of these were of hair colour being done. Quite a lengthy process with a lot of close contact. The gowns didnt look disposable. Hairdresser was wearing a visor rather than mask. I dont think my daughter wore her mask, I'm not sure. If add it all up my hairdresser has been potentially exposed to a lot of asymptomatic clients. If you assume the chair etc thoroughly cleaned what about other high contact areas? Or even those other areas? Heavens it's never ending! As always it's down to individual risk. For my hairdresser who's in her 30s and apart from being quite overweight the implications of her getting the virus may be less severe.
Interestingly my daughter pointed out that shes seen people on mobility scooters with oxygen tanks out and about so it must be safe! To be honest if you are just on a trip out for fresh air and maintaining social distancing it's probably perfectly safe. A period of time indoors where cant socially distance isnt really. As they say,the devil is in the detail!
I dont drive so the only options open to me are walk, car share,taxi or bus.
It is interesting that although desperate to get people back to work/spend the government is still very reticent about any form of public or shared transport. If you can walk or cycle. Car share within your bubble or consistent people,and even then quite strict rules of how you should sit, masks, windows open. For them to be so reticent makes me think its incredibly high risk!

 

[Diakat]

Had a haircut, she wore a mask and shield, I wore a mask.
Have done two days in the office in socially distanced pods and it was bliss compared to working from home with child asking to join meetings or trying to avoid doing the pdf schoolwork sent home (often with the answer printed next to the question or indeed the wrong answer) no remote lessons for our school and no requests to actually see work they had completed.