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Covid and Work, Covid Advice and General Chat

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Max68, Jul 13, 2020.

  1. Max68

    Max68 · Well-Known Member

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    Doesn't surprise me at all. You only have to look at Florida with the massive spike in cases out there and what reopened recently before the spike? Universal Studios and Disney Theme Parks and you will probably on the whole find far more young people and children there all in one place!!
     
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  2. NicoleC1971

    NicoleC1971 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Let us keep an eye on hospitalisations and mortality (as Professor Hennigan said on R4 today) as increased testing can result in more positives.
     
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  3. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    And more false positives of course...
    I thought the choice of words from the ONS was interesting
    Screenshot 2020-07-31 at 12.40.17.png
    Specifically not an "increase in infections"
     
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  4. JRT

    JRT · Well-Known Member

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    I havent received one,maybe it depends on area/gp? To be honest the government advice for shielded/high risk is mix with your own household and stringently socially distance etc elsewhere. Unfortunately they are also implying that the risk is much less . Which for certain groups it may be. Who knows? Certainly a case of needing to read the small print!
     
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  5. Max68

    Max68 · Well-Known Member

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    May I also state that certainly with regard to schools they have really missed a trick here. There will be thousands of clinically vulnerable staff and students around the country. Months ago they could easily have found out how many. You may have schools who have few clinically vulnerable children and a lot of vulnerable staff but you may also have a school with more vulnerable children than staff. As an LSA all I was doing in Zoom lessons was being a second pair of eyes for Safeguarding reasons. I didn't even have to know the children technically, especially as a staff member without a working webcam so I just sat in the background observing. I could easily do that for say a school 250 miles away if they didn't have enough LSA's to cover lessons run by a clinically vulnerable teacher. Would be fairly easy to set up a country wide database because you already have a database for a Criminal Records Check for School Staff. You could have moved staff from school to school to work remotely thus covering all bases whilst protecting the vulnerable. But no one in power ever thinks out of the box!!
     
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  6. JRT

    JRT · Well-Known Member

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    Couldnt put it better myself. Independent Sage always interesting and today commented on the public's increasingly disengagement from the government. Also commented on the influence that those who have vested interests in making/ selling of alcohol have on the government both now and previously. If only as much thought (and resources) was put into opening schools as pubs/gyms/nailbars.
    Sadly I feel we are just at the beginning of this. I quite expect in the future things that are happening now will be looked on with horror,similar to how deaths in care homes is being.
    It's a slow and tangled process and all we can hope is that we can protect ourselves as best we can.
     
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  7. lucylocket61

    lucylocket61 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    And today Wales has announced further relaxation of safety measures, in order to save the tourist industry.
     
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  8. becca59

    becca59 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Which is needed for people to make money to finance this fiasco. Money does not go on trees.
     
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  9. Dusty911

    Dusty911 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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  10. Dusty911

    Dusty911 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    The reason for that is opposite to any claim that infections have not increased .It is well known that you can be infected sometimes very badly but still not test positive on a nose or throat swabs as the virus can reside elsewhere in the body.
     
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  11. Tannith

    Tannith · Well-Known Member

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    "it makes no sense that the risk to the clinically vulnerable can change from March to July/August when the same pesky virus is still out there." They are even expecting the "shielded" to return to work (and the shops etc), on Monday so Good Luck with getting any consideration if you are clinically vulnerable!
     
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  12. JohnEGreen

    JohnEGreen Other · Master

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    @becca59 I am glad to see you are wearing mask and gloves. :)
     
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  13. Max68

    Max68 · Well-Known Member

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    The Government are starting to remind me of Lieutenant-General Browning from a "Bridge Too Far". "Ahem chaps right well as long as you wear your kit, helmet, carry your rifle and socially distance from the nasty enemy you will all be fine, despite the fact that our operation is a disaster waiting to happen!"
     
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  14. Max68

    Max68 · Well-Known Member

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    This is a fabulous article from John Rentoul of the Independent.

    What Boris Johnson said: Two weeks ago, I updated you from this podium on the progress we had made as a country against coronavirus. And in many ways that progress continues.

    What he really meant: That progress does not continue.

    What he said: But I have also consistently warned that this virus could come back and that we would not hesitate to take swift and decisive action as required.

    What he meant: I have always delivered mixed messages.

    What he said: I am afraid that in parts of Asia and Latin America the virus is now gathering pace. And our European friends are also struggling to keep the virus under control. As we see these rises around the world, we cannot fool ourselves that we are exempt.

    What he meant: I have been world class in my ability to fool myself that we are exempt. Yesterday I claimed “massive success” on the day the Office for National Statistics found that England had the highest number of excess deaths in Europe.

    What he said: Last night the health secretary announced new restrictions on household contact in the northwest.

    What he meant: He didn’t do it very well and a lot of people are very cross with him, so you note I say “the health secretary” (that’s Matt Hancock) not “the government” (that’s me, buck stops here etcetera).

    What he said: Even as we act locally, it is also my responsibility to look again at the measures we have in place nationally in light of the data we are seeing about incidence.

    What he meant: Responsibility? Who wrote this bit?

    What he said: You will remember that at every point I have said our plan to reopen society and the economy is conditional – that it relies on continued progress against the virus, and that we would not hesitate to put on the brakes if required.

    What he meant: I definitely said it and it’s your fault if you think I said, “Get back to work; get yourself a sandwich; here’s a tenner to paint the town red”. I was very clear. I said: “Go to work, don’t go to work.”

    What he said: With those numbers creeping up, our assessment is that we should now squeeze that brake pedal in order to keep the virus under control.

    What he meant: I am the Lewis Hamilton of public health policy. Where’s the reverse gear?

    What he said: On Saturday 1 August, you’ll remember, we had hoped to reopen in England a number of higher-risk settings that had remained closed. Today, I am afraid we are postponing these changes for at least a fortnight.

    What he meant: That’s tomorrow, by the way. Tomorrow’s off.

    What he said: We will, of course, study the data carefully and move forward with our intention to open up as soon as we possibly can.

    What he meant: Chris Whitty says we can’t and I have to do what he says or the public inquiry will tear me to shreds.

    What he said: We also said we would pause shielding nationally from 1 August – based on clinical advice, that national pause will proceed as planned, and our medical experts will be explaining more about that decision later and about shielding later today.

    What he meant: The messages get so mixed at this point that it is probably best if I just hand over to someone in a metaphorical white coat.

    What he said: Most people in this country are following the rules and doing their bit to control the virus. But we must keep our discipline, we must be focused and we cannot be complacent.


    What he meant: Some people have been tearing the pants out of the guidance.

    What he said: It means a greater police presence to ensure face coverings are being worn where this is required by law.


    What he meant: I don’t believe in this and the police don’t want to do it, but I have to say it because otherwise it will look as if I’m not taking it seriously.

    What he said: This is how we will avoid any return to a full national lockdown.

    What he meant: If you don’t do as you’re told, you will be letting everybody else down and worst of all you will be sent back into your houses and told to stay there.

    What he said: I do believe that getting our children back into school on 1 September, or 11 August in Scotland, is a good thing. That should be a national priority; that should be something that we aim to deliver.

    What he meant: But is it going to happen? Don’t ask me, I’m just the prime minister.

    What he said: The only real utensil we have for controlling the spread of this new virus is human behaviour.

    What he meant: And if I can’t sprinkle my answers with Bjork references, what even is the point of being prime minister?

    What he said [When John Stevens of the Daily Mail asked about his summer plans]: I will be working flat out as you can imagine; I may allow a brief staycation to creep on to the agenda if that’s possible.

    What he meant: Remember when David Cameron had to go on holiday to Cornwall, sulked about it and then jetted off somewhere sunnier? That.

    What he said: Ultimately, you know, it’s up to everybody, it’s, it’s up to the whole country to get this right and to do it together.

    What he meant: How do you put this thing into reverse?






     
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  15. JRT

    JRT · Well-Known Member

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    Ah sometimes it's difficult to know whether to laugh or scream. Still we can all test space and face or whatever the latest is. George Orwell must have been psychic
     
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  16. Mr_Pot

    Mr_Pot Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I don't think he is ready for stand-up.
     
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  17. becca59

    becca59 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Wearing the mask because that’s the law. Gloves!!! Better to keep washing and sanitising my hands.
     
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  18. aealexandrou

    aealexandrou Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    What we know about COVID-19 is that it loves people with underlying health issues, particularly those with high levels of inflammation. As T2D we already know that we have underlying health issues, but then so do most other people without knowing it. If we have to expose ourselves to COVID-19 then we should do everything to reduce those underlying health issues and in particular inflammation. The biggest cause of inflammation is a leaky gut from eating grain food, especially wheat and glutton. Cooking in Vegetable oils, which are little more than hydrogenised and bleached machine lubricants are also a cause of inflammation. Make your body COVID-19 resistant with a good low carb high fat or equivalent diet.
     
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  19. HSSS

    HSSS Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Other than interpretation of this statement (Which is quite frankly stretched to fit your point) is there any evidence of false positives? I’m hearing of false negatives but not the reverse other than in possibly “reinfection” situations after recovery which has the possible explanation of inactive rna fragments from the earlier infection.
     
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  20. JohnEGreen

    JohnEGreen Other · Master

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    What causes false positives?
    • Cross reactions with other genetic material. Other sources of DNA or RNA may have cross
    reactive genetic material that can be amplified by the RT-PCR test. False positives were
    observed unexpectedly in norovirus assays in patients with enterocolitis, due to unusually high
    levels of human DNA in samples [1]
    • Contamination during sampling. This may happen if the swab head accidently contacts, or is
    placed on a contaminated surface (e.g. latex gloves, hospital surface).
    • Contamination during swab extraction. Viral RNA is extracted from swabs in solution;
    accidental aerosolization of liquid can cause cross contamination between samples.
    • Contamination with PCR amplicon. The PCR amplification process generates millions of copies
    of the DNA target (amplicon) that can cause false positives in subsequent PCR reactions. If a
    testing lab is accidently contaminated with amplicon it can lead to sporadic false positives.
    • Contamination of PCR laboratory consumables. Contamination can spread from a post-PCR lab
    into a pre-PCR lab by transfer of equipment, chemicals, people or aerosol. Even experienced
    national labs can be affected. In early-March 2020, COVID-19 RT-PCR assays produced by the
    CDC were withdrawn after many showed false positives due to contaminated reagents. [2]

    What is the UK operational false positive rate?
    The UK operational false positive rate is unknown. There are no published studies on the
    operational false positive rate of any national COVID-19 testing programme.
    An attempt has been made to estimate the likely false-positive rate of national COVID-19 testing
    programmes by examining data from published external quality assessments (EQAs) for RT-PCR
    assays for other RNA viruses carried out between 2004-2019 [7]. Results of 43 EQAs were examined,
    giving a median false positive rate of 2.3% (interquartile range 0.8-4.0%).

    https://assets.publishing.service.g...9_Impact_of_false_positives_and_negatives.pdf
     
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