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Covid and Work, Covid Advice and General Chat

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Max68, Jul 13, 2020.

  1. Max68

    Max68 · Well-Known Member

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    Even Sturgeon admits it!

    More schoolchildren will get coronavirus, says Sturgeon

    A rise in the number of pupils contracting Covid-19 is inevitable, Nicola Sturgeon has said.

    The First Minister spoke about the clusters of the virus across the country, including those affecting schools, at the Scottish Government’s coronavirus briefing in Edinburgh on Tuesday.

    She stressed the importance of keeping schools open as the harms of children losing out in an education are “considerable”.

    “But we will inevitably I think see more cases which involve school pupils in the weeks and months ahead,” she said.

    “In those cases, as has happened in the ones that I’ve mentioned today, contact tracers will identify if other students or staff at schools need to isolate and will let them and their parents know.”

    She also stressed current cases are community clusters with impact on schools rather than school-based clusters.

    Speaking about the clusters across Scotland, she added: “Though I don’t want to alarm anybody, I do want people to take notice – in fact I need people to take notice.

    “These clusters show us that these virus continue to pose a serious risk.”
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  2. NicoleC1971

    NicoleC1971 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Of course everyone has the freedom to be anxious and clearly people feel their fear is rational but we should start from a belief that nobody wishes anyone to be put in real risk of serious illness.
    We are hyper focused on this particular virus so what I am saying is that the anxiety is out of all proportion to the risk thus those who readily do things of equal or greater risk such as driving to school, exposing themselves to flu viruses or TB (far more infectious in a school context and not always protected for by vaccine) are rendering themselves helpless and expecting someone else (the government, me a taxpayer or their headteachers) to take unreasonable and disproportionate measures to keep them safe from this particular little virus.
    The other issue is that there is no exit strategy. Cases will pop up the more we test and the more corona viruses ie.. colds are out there (PCR picks up current and recovered cases as well as fragments from other similar viruses) so if we carry on with the current suppress the vanishing virus logic all I can see is further school closures just because there a couple of kids in their year group test positive. So yes I am concerned and with real reason given what has happened.
    If you are a teacher or parent who feels this way I suggest you take a look at the UsforThem campaign which has a page for teachers and plenty of useful evidence.
     
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  3. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    Who have hopefully taken the opportunity over the past few months to improve their metabolic health and reduce their personal risk?
     
  4. Dusty911

    Dusty911 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Nicola it was you I believe who erroneously posted a 0.08 mortality rate for Covid 19 comparing it with Who figures for flu and SARS trying to tell us this meant there was no need to be concerned . I hunted down the more accurate Who figure of 1% for you which of course rises with vunerability. You never responded to this at the time . You'll find the link on page 18 of this discussion.
    Given your underestimation of even the average mortality rate for this virus by a factor of 10 forgive me if I'm not surprised that you don't think it's worth protecting people from it. Have a look
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    #564 Dusty911, Aug 19, 2020 at 12:05 PM
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2020
  5. Dusty911

    Dusty911 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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  6. Dusty911

    Dusty911 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully yes but not all of us are so lucky as to be able to do so.
     
  7. Jbicheno

    Jbicheno Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Still will have underlying health conditions though.
     
  8. Max68

    Max68 · Well-Known Member

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    I think what's been forgotten in all this is that it was WHO and the Government who were telling people that their underlying conditions posed a higher risk of being more seriously ill or dying from Covid. If they hadn't mentioned diabetes I would have been none the wiser. Now the same Government is saying it's all fine for those clinically vulnerable people to go back to a Covid secure workplace, which of course cant be Covid secure because it's a virus with asymptomatic transmission. It's almost as if they are saying that you have permission to get seriously ill now because the NHS will be able to cope (until Oct/Nov/Dec/Jan I suspect!)

    So the fear has been created by the Government and the uncertainty has been created by the Government whose bizarre change of tack from protecting the vulnerable to not protecting the vulnerable with no change in the viruses ability to infect is totally confusing. This of course is a Government which has made an absolute pigs ear of their handling of the crisis from care homes to NHS PPE to the disbanding of PHE and such. So why on earth should anyone trust anything that this Government says, especially for me their declaration that schools are safe?! This is the same Government remember who said that they were doing everything to ensure care homes were safe and that worked out well didn't it?!

    EDIT - As said before it's not just the immediate health risks that are a concern. Interesting article here -

    Dynasty star Emma Samms fears she may never recover from long-term COVID damage

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/ukne...g-term-covid-damage/ar-BB188QgY?ocid=msedgntp
     
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    #568 Max68, Aug 19, 2020 at 12:31 PM
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2020
  9. NicoleC1971

    NicoleC1971 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    We simply do not know the mortality rate amongst the population which will be lower than the case fatality rate.
    So perhaps I should not quote the 0.08 estimate I had read because like you I have no idea how many of us have had it and not been recorded as a case. The WHO cannot know this either.
    We do know that it hits hard those who have weakened immunity generally because they are older etc. because we can see who got hospitalised and who died. That is still the elderly with co morbidities in general.
    This is from Professor Karr's report on actual data on hospitalised cases of UK diabetics which put this into context. Not saying it isn't a nasty virus for very specific parts of the population.
    We also know that people massively overestimate the numbers of deaths as a proportion of the population too and are very anxious (Ipsos mori, Yougov polls) and nobody seems to talk about the deaths caused by lockdown policies.
    https://www.thelancet.com/journals/landia/article/PIIS2213-8587(20)30272-2/fulltext
     
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  10. JRT

    JRT · Well-Known Member

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    Interesting section on ITV 1.00pm news about shielders returning to work. Apparently 12 charities approached Government saying need for furlough scheme to be extended and or adapted. Matt Hancock interviewed and said perfectly safe if work environment covid safe.
    What did follow was very helpful interview with employment lawyer who gave the clearest explanation of what employers legally must do and what the employee can do. It's very good,I've recorded it for future use.
    I think more may change but it will take time and the government wont do anything unless no other choice.
    On the whole,and for most people work is as safe as can be. There are some exceptions and I think schools are one of them. I hope they are indeed safe for the majority of staff and pupils. Childeren need to be back at school for their wellbeing, mental ,social,and physical.
    I think those lucky enough to be able to work in a covid safe environment need to show a little compassion for those that are still negotiating it. Would they spend 8 hours in a crowded pub/restaurant/nightclub/gym with limited access to PPE and with poor ventilation? If they cant see the similarities and the insanity of the situation I imagine lack of compassion is probably the least of their problems.
     
    • Agree Agree x 7
  11. Tannith

    Tannith · Well-Known Member

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    Determining the optimal strategy for reopening schools, the impact of test and trace interventions, and the risk of occurrence of a second COVID-19 epidemic wave in the UK: a modelling study
    "However, we also predict that in the absence of sufficiently broad test–trace–isolate coverage, reopening of schools combined with accompanied reopening of society across all scenarios might induce a second COVID-19 wave. For example, our modelling results suggest that full school reopening in September, 2020, without an effective test–trace–isolate strategy would result in R rising above 1 and a resulting second wave of infections that would peak in December, 2020, and be 2·3 times the size of the original COVID-19 wave. Cases would then decline and peak again, with a wave 2·0 times larger than the original "wave.https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanchi/article/PIIS2352-4642(20)30250-9/fulltext
    It's not just the teachers who could be affected. A second wave would affect the whole country.And we all know how brilliant our Govt's Test and Trace programme is!
     
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    #571 Tannith, Aug 19, 2020 at 2:46 PM
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2020
  12. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    Ah more "modelling".. what could possibly go wrong with that..
     
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  13. Tannith

    Tannith · Well-Known Member

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    Masks block spread of Covid-linked droplets

    People who wear a face mask significantly lower the risk of spreading Covid-19 to others through speaking and coughing, research suggests.


    Speaking and coughing without face protection exposes people nearby to virus-laden droplets that would otherwise be stopped by wearing a mask, the study shows.

    Someone standing two metres from a coughing person who has no mask is exposed to 10,000 times more droplets than someone half a metre from a coughing person who is wearing one, the researchers found. https://www.ed.ac.uk/covid-19-response/latest-news/masks-block-spread-of-covid-linked-droplets But masks are FORBIDDEN in schools, for children as well as adults
     
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  14. Fairygodmother

    Fairygodmother Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Meanwhile, the govt, which has appointed a serial company trasher to head up the new Health Protection Institute, has just said that they are ‘not considering’ making the wearing of masks in workplaces compulsory, but they are continuing to make it necessary to wear them in some indoor settings.
    I wonder why.
    Could it be something to do with schools returning?
     
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  15. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    Graph in question is here

    Screenshot 2020-08-19 at 15.48.49.png
     
  17. NicoleC1971

    NicoleC1971 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    The French are so no doubt we will follow sheep like.
     
  18. There is no Spoon

    There is no Spoon I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I keep hearing this nonsense spouted. :meh:

    The government needs kids to be back in school so parents can go back to work.
    Don't fall for the propaganda "it's for there well being" :stop:
    :bag:

     
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  19. JRT

    JRT · Well-Known Member

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    I think all childeren need to mix with their peers. For many childeren school is an escape from abuse and or social deprivation. I know schools were open during lockdown for vulnerable childeren,but the ones officially known to social services are not all that are vulnerable. Some childeren may thrive with home schooling. Some childeren have parents who can barely look after themselves let alone a child.
    It just needs to be done safely.
     
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  20. Max68

    Max68 · Well-Known Member

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    I know exactly what you mean. My nephew is absolutely terrified of going back to school and terrified of bringing a bug back that will kill mummy. Know how he feels!!

    Their mental, physical and social wellbeing may also be affected if students, school staff, parents, siblings and grand parents became very ill or died due to a viral outbreak at a school. Not to mention what this could do to Head Teachers wellbeing if they lose children or staff on their watch.

    As you say it's purely and simply down to getting mum and dad back to work. Boris and co weren't too concerned about their mental, physical and social wellbeing when they downgraded their exam results!!!
     
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