1. Get the Diabetes Forum App for your phone - available on iOS and Android.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Guest, we'd love to know what you think about the forum! Take the Diabetes Forum Survey 2021 »
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Diabetes Forum should not be used in an emergency and does not replace your healthcare professional relationship. Posts can be seen by the public.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Guest, stay home, stay safe, save the NHS. Stay up to date with information about keeping yourself and people around you safe here and GOV.UK: Coronavirus (COVID-19). Think you have symptoms? NHS 111 service is available here.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
Find support, ask questions and share your experiences. Join the community »

Covid and Work, Covid Advice and General Chat

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Max68, Jul 13, 2020.

  1. Mr_Pot

    Mr_Pot Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,311
    Likes Received:
    1,979
    Trophy Points:
    178
    As I asked in a previous post, what would you suggest as a solution, would you keep all children off school until there is a vaccine?
     
  2. KK123

    KK123 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,764
    Likes Received:
    2,389
    Trophy Points:
    198
    Hi Mr Pot, I don't think it's that people want to keep kids off until there is a vaccine, or to stay off work until there is. I think that it's because we have been told oh it is perfectly safe, you don't need a mask, oh...wait, you do, you simply have to stay 2m apart..oh...hang on...you don't, a metre is fine, you can catch it from human contact but hold on, not children, there is no risk getting on a bus without a mask, but wear one anyway, and on and on and on. Specifically in relation to schools (my daughter is a Teacher), they are told to social distance with desks and hand washing etc but 'don't wear a mask'. Either there is a risk or there isn't so which is it? If there is (and I assume there is because of the social distancing in schools) then why no mask? Also nobody mentions the logistics of getting kids to schools, other parents, more traffic, more people on public transport. I say do it properly, go back to school BUT ensure class sizes are smaller, proper PPE equipment, risk assess those adults at higher risk and act accordingly, yes it's hard but the will for it simply is not there at the moment so all we get is 'everything is fine, off you all go and fingers crossed'.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Agree Agree x 3
  3. Dusty911

    Dusty911 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    82
    Likes Received:
    97
    Trophy Points:
    58
    I don't think most of us are suggesting this but rather that the guidance is too loose and to vague.Deliberately so IMHO as has been suggested so that the government don't carry the can but the poor pressurised head teacher who unwittingly does is deemed to have sparked a cluster.
    Guidance should be clear and government dictated imo PPE should be used in schools as it is to be in shops but in particular reference to this discussion risk assessments should be standardised and protect vunerable and extremely vunerable individuals rigorously with no room for lax interpretation.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Agree Agree x 2
  4. JRT

    JRT · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    256
    Likes Received:
    163
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Thankyou Max68. Yes it's almost like a battle of wills at the moment. My aim since mid March has basically buy myself time and see what happens. Fortunately I have savings which if I'm careful can eke out until next may, I'm mortgage free so at least dont have that worry. On advice from Union have applied for Universal Credit which should get in some form in August. My employers arent paying SSP but from my perspective the sick note explains my absence from work. GP isnt particularly empathic and I think this will be last note I can get. She mentioned another diabetic carer who has returned to work. This is where the reliance on employers is so risky. I know my employers and their attitudes to H&S and employee rights. I trust them as much as Boris. I wouldn't want to be in care at the moment but the care home where my daughter works has remained covid free and I feel if I was working there I would feel as much risk as possible had been eliminated. So Monday will be a case of kicking Union into action and finding best way of protecting my rights. I dont want to return to my current job. I'm too angry about the large number of residents who have died. I'm not sure how they've kept such a lid on it. I do know that several long term staff have left,ones whose work ethic I respect. My son in law suggested whistle blowing to local paper which I may consider. Certainly I will be sharing my concerns with CQC in full. As for the rest their seems to be so much mud slinging and arguing between government/scientists that its pathetic. The head of one of unions was on the news today describing truly horrific experiences of BAME employees during the pandemic. Lots of stirring talk of how things must change and this cant continue. No suggestions of how they are going to change it,the government certainly arent listening. Meanwhile BAME and other vulnerable groups will continue to face risk unnecessarily. Every day I count my blessings.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  5. Mr_Pot

    Mr_Pot Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,311
    Likes Received:
    1,979
    Trophy Points:
    178
    IMG-20200717-WA0006.jpg
     
    • Funny Funny x 5
    • Like Like x 3
  6. HSSS

    HSSS Type 2 · Expert

    Messages:
    5,493
    Likes Received:
    2,718
    Trophy Points:
    198
    How about giving them the same protection and guidelines that the rest of the country have for starters, ie social distancing of at least 1m, masks/visors, smaller classes (alternate days/weeks with half classes possibly), barriers like supermarkets have etc

    Bubble of single classes might be possible for primary schools but impossible for secondary making these minimum levels of protection even more important.

    seriously what other work locations are being exposed in this way other than schools, and on pain of criminal prosecution if you fail to expose your child too!

    I’m praying for changes that make sense before September.
     
    • Like Like x 6
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. JRT

    JRT · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    256
    Likes Received:
    163
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Thankyou for your kind comment which I've only just seen,its been a strange few days! There are so many ripples with how this virus affects people both physically and emotionally. Sometimes it just hits me what a complex process it would be for any government. Groups of people are and will suffer terribly. The concept of shielding was a scary one and I think the limitations placed on those who were shielded probably gave the best indication of how dangerous this virus can be. I think the early news footage of the extent to which countries ahead of us were disinfecting public areas made me feel this was no ordinary flu. In February a friend and I wanted to book a holiday in Italy. She was very keen to go at the end of March, she felt the virus was nothing to worry about ,but I managed to persuade her the end of September. Not going to happen. I bought my travel insurance when we booked and it covers Covid,apparently now it wont if people do travel.
    I think quite a few people were surprised at not being included in the shielding group,especially as initially the government stated that everyone in receipt of the flu jab would need to isolate for 12 weeks. It must have been a complex process deciding who should be included and sometimes people have been added or taken off as more is understood. I did wonder if diabetes were not included as they were such a large group. Maybe the government thought there would be too high a demand on voluntary resources. Of course even amongst diabetics there is a vast range of risks depending on comorbidities. I think if I was shielded the apparent advice from August to get back out their would be terrifying. Of course it's not quite that brutal mute Boris and read the fine print and it will be down to the shielded or their carers to negotiate with their healthcare professionals as to whether they individually should return to work/school etc. Of course any financial support via SSP or furlough will disappear. SSP can be accessed via fit note if your GP thinks its warranted. I am beginning to realise that just being categorized as shielded may offer some protection especially when negotiating with employers.
    I know their are concerns about diabetic childeren returning to school. I may be wrong but I'm sure Gov.uk says their is little risk so they can return. That of course is debatable as to whether enough known. Parents certainly shouldn't be fined. However once again you see the ripple affect. What happens if the child does remain at home but employers insist the parent returns to work. What if it's the parent who is vulnerable? What's happening to individuals with learning disabilities, dementia,those who struggle with mental health who attend day centres and their carers? I worked in a day centre for 30 years and so I am very aware of the challenges faced by carers and service users. Day centres are shut for the foreseeable future but I know the staff are working desperately hard supporting people as much as they can. My late father was diagnosed with dementia in 2010 and I saw first hand how sevices were decimated by the time of his death.
    There is tremendous concern about the mental wellbeing of childeren and young people. Yet again support services cut to the bone.
    For 18 months I worked in research and campaigns for the Citizens Advice. Fantastic organisation and a job I'd always wanted. When funding meant my role absorbed elsewhere I was to be honest relieved. For anyone who has seen I daniel Blake and thinks its exaggeration it isnt, maybe everything wouldnt happen to one person but I personally came across every scenario. Add to that homelessness, housing shortages,unscrupulous employers breaking as many rules as they could get away with, zero hours contracts, rising child poverty. The icing on the cake was Universal Credit a brilliant way to make those already suffering suffer more. Dont even get me started on PIP.
    So the services that are needed to support people ,the safety net,is pretty much on its last legs before the pandemic. For the past ten years I've been shaken on how little people seemed to care about it. Of course on the whole we dont pay a lot of attention unless we need something. If the economic forecast is true and we have an unprecedented recession a lot of people are in for a bit of a shock. Need childcare because grandparents cant do it,or have realised after having a break maybe they dont want to. Good luck with that. Employer not complying with being Covid Safe? Fewer places have Union reps in workplace and to be totally honest they can give advice but usually pretty toothless. In current situation have to experience the risk and report to HSE who also been affected by cutbacks. Zero hour contracts ,reduction in workers rights. Unemployed? 5 week wait for UC although they will offer a loan but this will place you in debt before you start. Rent caps mean you will find it hard to find somewhere to rent that you can afford. Housed by council? In Dorset even those with the highest need of accommodation due to health needs faced up to 5 years wait for suitable accommodation. It's all quite grim and all the individual can do is start to arm themselves with as much information as possible. If your not in one join a Union, they cant work miracles but gives some protection. Citizens advice are excellent. Their website is a source of excellent information. Face to face support isnt happening at the moment but you can call Advice Line or email them. They cant answer legal questions but can point you in direction of solicitors who offer free advice for half an hour. Turn to Us and Entitled to can offer benefit calculators and Advice on debt. Shelter for housing problems and debt. In general whatever problem CAB can point you to someone who can help. Everyone's circumstances are different and sometimes problems can seem totally overwhelming but in these difficult times there are people who can help and often just the act of acknowledging and sharing the problem really helps. Even in dark times theres always help,and hope if you know where to look.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Hug Hug x 1
  8. Max68

    Max68 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    747
    Likes Received:
    885
    Trophy Points:
    133
    @JRT The DWP are an unsympathetic shambolic group who literally are there just to tick boxes and lord only knows how they are to deal with in this pandemic! I (on top of everything else!) suffer with Bilateral Vestibular Hypofunction, which is basically Vertigo where my inner ear balance organs are - I think the technical term is knackered! - So I have to use just my eyes and my feet to balance. Had several "attacks" over the years lasting up to 8 months where I basically can't walk in a straight line and continuous spinning episodes. Think of the Waltzer in a fairground and that basically happens when I am stationary. Thankfully I found a wonderful consultant in London who fully diagnosed it and I had some rehabilitation done that helped quite a bit until lockdown where I'm pretty wobbly in my head still but it is cope able.

    However back in late 2015 - 2017 I think, I couldn't work. In a nutshell I had a two year battle with the DWP over Employment and Support Allowance. Rather than try and recover I was constantly battling them. The Health Professional (I use the term loosely) who did my Assessment lied about various things, and I had the assessment recorded!, they accused my GP of lying, they used a GP who was no longer registered as a Medical Professional on the Tribunal Committee so after I found proof of that they rearranged another Tribunal, the whole thing was a shambles of lies and deceit on their part. In my final Tribunal the Judge declared me fit for work, but as she closed her file and turned off her tape recorder she uttered to me "You have my sympathies though as no-one will employ you in your current condition". So I had to apply for Universal Credit where I had to declare I was fit for work which would have been a lie on my part. Even the girl at the Job Centre asked why I was there and I couldn't find work because as soon as you revealed it as a medical condition that was it. I was on UC for 18 months!! I better enter the word Allegedly here for the above paragraph!!

    Thankfully I received a bit of luck when a company rang out of the blue to say I might have been miss old investments years earlier. Wouldn't usually listen to companies like that but I had no choice and surprisingly I received a tidy lump sum that saved me. Was a fair percentage the company took as payment mind you!! The irony being that if I had received the DWP support I could have concentrated on recovery, rather than worry about how I was going to survive and as stress is very high risk with regard to symptoms with their support I would have probably recovered in half the time.

    Not looking forward to possibly having to deal with them again!!
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Hug Hug x 1
  9. Max68

    Max68 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    747
    Likes Received:
    885
    Trophy Points:
    133
    There is one solution that is obvious. In a school setting you have a percentage of clinically vulnerable staff. You will also have a percentage of clinically vulnerable children or children with vulnerable parents. Rather than declare "all back to school" allow those children whose parents "want" them to remain at home to continue their home schooling which would be run from home, by the clinically vulnerable staff. If working from home is a continuous option for other companies why not schools?

    Our school has done this home schooling part brilliantly whilst also remained open for other students. When teachers have home lessons I have been supporting them in zoom, so why this can't be a continuous ongoing option "for those who want it" baffles me.

    If the Government wants to protect the NHS then protect the vulnerable - simple!!
     
    • Like Like x 4
  10. Tannith

    Tannith · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,021
    Likes Received:
    378
    Trophy Points:
    103
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...t=144_9985701&CMP=TNLEmail_118918_9985701_144
    Fewer than one in six workers has returned to the office as Britain’s biggest employers say they will continue to allow staff to work from home for months to come.

    In London, only one worker in eight has gone back, leaving trains and tubes deserted and business districts looking like ghost towns. In the City, only 800 of Goldman Sachs’ 6,000 London staff have returned, while fewer than 2,000 of the 12,000 at JP Morgan are back.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  11. JohnEGreen

    JohnEGreen Other · Master

    Messages:
    11,501
    Likes Received:
    22,594
    Trophy Points:
    298
    My wife has been working from home for the NHS as far as the management at the hospital where she works is concerned they have no intention of ending home working in the near future.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. HSSS

    HSSS Type 2 · Expert

    Messages:
    5,493
    Likes Received:
    2,718
    Trophy Points:
    198
    can’t say our, usually rated outstanding, school has done a great job of distance learning. No live classes via zoom at all. No lessons prerecorded by teachers. All worksheets and videos to watch. Tutors only making contact for the first time last week. For those in their gcse year I’m not sure it’s a great option to be at home any longer either.

    I just wish they’d do school safely for teachers, pupils and families and not make it the one environment that ignores the risks of legally forced proximity/large groups mixing prohibited and avoided elsewhere. Surely there’s some human rights violation or parental medical choices violated.?
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Agree Agree x 2
  13. Fairygodmother

    Fairygodmother Type 1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,811
    Likes Received:
    5,350
    Trophy Points:
    198
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. Tannith

    Tannith · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,021
    Likes Received:
    378
    Trophy Points:
    103
    https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-should-schools-reopen-fall.html?utm_source=notification
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Guru
    Retired Moderator

    Messages:
    21,795
    Likes Received:
    35,045
    Trophy Points:
    298
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Max68

    Max68 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    747
    Likes Received:
    885
    Trophy Points:
    133

    Somewhat concerning to read in that article that the one of the three teachers who died in Arizona had asthma, diabetes and lupus.. All three wore masks, gloves and social distanced. It's becoming more apparent to me that this thing is airborne rather than just droplets from coughs and sneezes.

    Interestingly I visited my mum in her dementia care home earlier where we social distanced outside. Heart-breaking not to be able to give her a hug, but that's another story! However one of the carers told me that back in November/December/January they had a higher death rate in the home than any other period for years and many staff were off with what was assumed at the time colds or flu. May just be coincidence as since all have been tested at the home and are clear (for now) but one strange coincidence anyway.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 1
  17. JRT

    JRT · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    256
    Likes Received:
    163
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Hi Max68 sadly your experience par for the course, although recently DWP has been prosecuted over disability benefits so there is hope. I think they are expecting record claimants and have appointed thousands of new staff. I must admit someone phoned me about my UC claim and they were incredibly lovely. Maybe they were new. Time will tell!
     
  18. JRT

    JRT · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    256
    Likes Received:
    163
    Trophy Points:
    83
    The evidence certainly doesnt seem to indicate in any way a mass return to school is possible in a safe way. As with return to work a lot of businesses seem happy for people to work at home with maybe people going into office occasionally if needed. Sadly cafes and restaurants in inner cities not survive. I think a lot of people are prepared to think creatively how they want to live and work. Still it will all be over by Christmas
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. HelenBC

    HelenBC · Newbie

    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    3
    I went back to work last week. I was terrified, im Receptionist in Vet Surgery. Not as bad as I thought it would be to be honest. All things that should be in place are. Try not be to scared
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Hug Hug x 1
    #119 HelenBC, Jul 18, 2020 at 9:52 PM
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 18, 2020
  20. JRT

    JRT · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    256
    Likes Received:
    163
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Very glad it went well for you. I was reading an article on the Guardian online about how peoples employment has been affected. Focused on a cafe, television and a gift shop. The cafe and gift shop really struggling as no hardly any footfall. Cafe said had done take away service but not the same. Gift shop had done some orders but not enough. It is heartbreaking but I can imagine why people are reluctant. There are viewpoints that the government scared people so much that they are reluctant to go anywhere. I think it's more mistrust in the government whose messages are usually so mixed and non sensual people dont trust them. As ever people vary massively. There are always those who want or need to believe everything is back to normal and even if it isnt act as though it is. For me a socially distanced dining experience or holiday doesnt appeal. For the first time I'm quite envious of those with caravans or motor homes which seem to be an ideal solution. As is camping,although after a few disasters never again. I think a lot of people are reevaluating how they live and what they buy and how. Many will have no choice and I wonder if service industries be the industries of the 1980s . No one knows really how this pandemic will go. For years we have been told jobs will disappear due to technology. We are still facing climate change etc. My gut feeling is we will limp on for a while with government continuing to follow their misguided instructions. It will be interesting to see what happens with sports events. I personally would have thought a live football match with spectators would be insane. It does however generate income,from transport, food etc. It would be a typical Boris feel good statement. I remember at the beginning of all this when people questioned the advisability of a race meeting a local saying how it meant millions in local income would be lost if it didnt go ahead.
    We need to focus on health not income. Safe education and a competent welfare state . Prepare the NHS and Social Care. There is of course the issue of how you fund this especially as are starting with a system that's already struggling massively.
    Max68 like you at times I have wondered why they dont just protect the vulnerable and maybe those less at risk can open up the economy.etc. I have a sneaky suspicion that this virus may be risky to all but in different ways. Through all their nonsense the basics of using/ sharing transport seems to be dont do it. Even in his recent hurrah let's get back to work and on the buses/trains speech he almost muttered but walk/cycle if you can. As for the vulnerable. Yes people were shielded but they were mainly shielded to stop them filling the NHS, now that's ok they can take their chances with everyone else. This government has shown a callousness to the old,disabled and sick that is breathtaking and hasn't changed. For me the most awful times were in the early days of pandemic when my daughters care home were told they had to take covid positive patients from hospitals . Her manager was in tears. I was worried for my daughters health and the other residents. Fortunately they had the space and knowledge to isolate and treat and it didnt spread. The policy in my mind was little short of murder.At that time people were more focused on NHS. Im not one to massively defend private sector,its variable. Theres a lot of people saying the home owners make a fortune and should provide own PPE. Many had no problem with that,but it simply wasnt there. What meagre supplies there were were directed at NHS. Still a protective blanket was thrown round them (which they probably had to turn into aprons) and that nice Matt said they could have a badge!
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Winner Winner x 2
  • Meet the Community

    Find support, connect with others, ask questions and share your experiences with people with diabetes, their carers and family.

    Did you know: 7 out of 10 people improve their understanding of diabetes within 6 months of being a Diabetes Forum member. Get the Diabetes Forum App and stay connected on iOS and Android

    Grab the app!
  • Tweet with us

  • Like us on Facebook