Covid and Work, Covid Advice and General Chat

JRT said:

Bluetit1802 I'm glad that your daughter is safely working from home. I do feel however that this is a perfect example of how inequitable an individual's risk to the virus is. Government departments and council employees are working from home for the foreseeable future.

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My daughter's government department jumped on the band wagon very quickly. Not only daughter sent home, but also any others with underlying health conditions recorded on their works medical records - and also obese staff, which must have been very embarrassing for them. All on full pay. All face to face work was stopped with offices closed to the public. Interviews all conducted by telephone. The remaining staff clearly at an advantage as far as social distancing and risk etc. is concerned.

I was just wondering if children in schools are social distancing within schools in bubbles what happens when they exit the school gates do their bubbles burst.

Or are they expected to act as a cohesive group outside of the school environment.

I know that one school has had to ask a bubble to isolate as one of their number tested positive for Covid 19

JRT said:

Bluetit1802 I'm glad that your daughter is safely working from home. I do feel however that this is a perfect example of how inequitable an individual's risk to the virus is. Government departments and council employees are working from home for the foreseeable future. Private sector and many frontline workers are given vague protection but on whole just expected to get on with it. Apart from risk posed by public transport employees are at mercy of employer (and colleagues) as to how safe the working environment is. If it's not Covid Safe you report to HSE( whose numbers have been decimated in past decade). Not only would you have put yourself at risk by being in the environment but what would your position be until it was investigated/made Covid Safe.?

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Whilst I agree that employees such as myself working for central and local government were quickly told to work from home and given equipment to enable us to do so private companies are doing similar. My nephew works for a private company and has been given the choice of only going into the office once a month post Covid. I have saved time and money as I am no longer undertaking an hours commute each day however I do think about the number of support staff in the staff restaurants and various coffee shops who have lost their jobs due to the offices being closed. There is also the cost to those with mental health issues etc who need the face to face interaction with colleagues.

DCUKMod said:

Whilst I have no basis to challenge that number, I would comment that for those who work from home long term, it is really necessary to have an assigned working area.

I have worked from home for many years, and have an office where I work. No "play" happens in there. It is furnished with office furniture and I sit on a decent quality office char.

Weekend before last I met up with a friend who has been working from home, due to the current circumstance. By her own description, her apartment is compact, with no room for a bespoke working area, and indeed she was initially working with her laptop on her lap, on the sofa.

That is not a healthy way to work. She has managed to be a bit creative, in order to be able to "put things away", but I think if this situation was to go on much longer, something would have to give.

Did the additional room in my house cost more than £45 a week? No idea, but the counterside to the saving is the additional spend on other things - whether it be the increase in energy costs, or buying equipment to make working from home workable.

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A lot of my colleagues are working on kitchen or dining tables. I am lucky that I already have an office which I set up a few years ago to do the paperwork for OH’s business.

So here we have the reality next door neighbor has just casually informed us that her son who moved back in with them about a month ago after breaking up with his GF was sent home from work last Friday with Covid 19 symptoms and has been for a test today they are not isolating they are going to the shops though not the one she works in because she has told them she can't work because they are self isolating people that is family and friends are walking in and out of the house at will and they had their three year old grand daughter stay over at the week end. I have been shielding for four months they can't even isolate for a day. If this is the level of social responsibility that is prevalent then I am very pessimistic about our ability to avoid a second wave.

I am so angry.

Edit to add we share a path and gate to the back lane he has been coming and going via that path now I feel all my efforts at shielding will have been for nothing.

Daphne917 said:

Whilst I agree that employees such as myself working for central and local government were quickly told to work from home and given equipment to enable us to do so private companies are doing similar. My nephew works for a private company and has been given the choice of only going into the office once a month post Covid. I have saved time and money as I am no longer undertaking an hours commute each day however I do think about the number of support staff in the staff restaurants and various coffee shops who have lost their jobs due to the offices being closed. There is also the cost to those with mental health issues etc who need the face to face interaction with colleagues.

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Yes my Son in Law works for a large bank in the City . Hes currently working from home and has been told its indefinitely. He has worked from home before and they have a separate office space in the garden which at least gives some semblance of separation from home and work. Many large companies seem to be thinking along the same lines. There are obvious advantages, no commute, save a fortune on train fares,companies not having to pay for premises. Hopefully less pollution. On the down side of course is not everyone has the space to work at home. The line between home and work may become less defined. Some may relish working from home and no longer having to negotiate office politics. We are however social creatures. Many people meet life partners and friends at work. For some it may be the main source of contact outside the home. We thrive on social interaction and sharing ideas that somehow doesnt seem quite the same via Zoom. It may be that smaller work hubs are formed which people attend on a rota. It may be that its initially it was concerns about the virus that has changed working patterns, I also think people may be reevaluating how their life is structured. Time will tell.

JRT said:

Some may relish working from home and no longer having to negotiate office politics.

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Believe me, working from home is no barrier to office politics. My fear is the loss of innovation and creativity from spontaneous interaction alongside all the health issues - increased sedentaryness (if that’s a word), impacts on mental health and rapid economic decline. Are short term financial gains really worth all of that?

JohnEGreen said:

So here we have the reality next door neighbor has just casually informed us that her son who moved back in with them about a month ago after breaking up with his GF was sent home from work last Friday with Covid 19 symptoms and has been for a test today they are not isolating they are going to the shops though not the one she works in because she has told them she can't work because they are self isolating people that is family and friends are walking in and out of the house at will and they had their three year old grand daughter stay over at the week end. I have been shielding for four months they can't even isolate for a day. If this is the level of social responsibility that is prevalent then I am very pessimistic about our ability to avoid a second wave.

I am so angry.

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It does make you despair. Sadly I think ambiguous messages that the virus has all but disappeared etc or only really affects the old and vulnerable isnt helping. Today's developments with a vaccine /treatment are good news. It's quite unnerving how the media seem to emphasize it could be ready by autumn. Even Boris was cautious admitting probably be next year. People make assumptions from snippets -only affects old-mild virus- go out and spend-back to work. They hear what they want to hear. Some just dont care! No, doesnt give you hope!

Goonergal said:

Believe me, working from home is no barrier to office politics. My fear is the loss of innovation and creativity from spontaneous interaction alongside all the health issues - increased sedentaryness (if that’s a word), impacts on mental health and rapid economic decline. Are short term financial gains really worth all of that?

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Yes, the creativity and interaction and teamwork in the genuine sense are vital. Exercise is a concern. Some people cycle to work,others exercise sport or exercise after work. If nothing else a physical change of environment is beneficial physically and mentally. The thought of millions of workers connected virtually but socially isolated is depressing! I think the biggest issue at the moment is uncertainty. We dont know how long this virus will be present or even if a vaccine is possible. Someone very wise once said that the only things that change dramatically change society are war and pandemics. I do feel we are at the beginning of a long journey. Meanwhile people can only negotiate their way through this and hopefully support others.

Max68 said:

Here


Here's hoping because I'm only 5 foot 5!!!

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Im 5 ft 2, best news I've heard today!

I have to my shame been ranting for the last hour but am beginning to calm down or I was till the lad in question just went out in his car I shall endeavor to keep calm but if I get infected with the virus and die I shall never talk to them again.

Problem is no matter how upset or angry you are you cannot change peoples behavior or human nature you just have to cope with it and take precautions.

And the government think they can pick an arbitrary date that we can all stop shielding on and we will all be OK.

JohnEGreen said:

So here we have the reality next door neighbor has just casually informed us that her son who moved back in with them about a month ago after breaking up with his GF was sent home from work last Friday with Covid 19 symptoms and has been for a test today they are not isolating they are going to the shops though not the one she works in because she has told them she can't work because they are self isolating people that is family and friends are walking in and out of the house at will and they had their three year old grand daughter stay over at the week end. I have been shielding for four months they can't even isolate for a day. If this is the level of social responsibility that is prevalent then I am very pessimistic about our ability to avoid a second wave.

I am so angry.

Edit to add we share a path and gate to the back lane he has been coming and going via that path now I feel all my efforts at shielding will have been for nothing.

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I can understand how you feel, John, but try and keep calm and avoid them all as much as possible until the issue is settled.
You'll need to quarantine or treat your shoes in some way.

Pubs are a problem, it has affected three pubs in Carlisle in the last few day after already being in the Infirmary for some time.

I hope the kids will get back to school soon, but I can see the virus coming back and stopping them.
Atb
Derek

JohnEGreen said:

I was just wondering if children in schools are social distancing within schools in bubbles what happens when they exit the school gates do their bubbles burst.

Or are they expected to act as a cohesive group outside of the school environment.

I know that one school has had to ask a bubble to isolate as one of their number tested positive for Covid 19

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The school children in our neighbourhood have been noticeable by their absence for most of this lockdown. Heaven!. But this last week or two they have been playing out on their bikes and scooters, all day and well into the evening. All from different households, various age groups, and no social distancing evident. Why it has suddenly started I won't hazard a guess.

I’ve been working from home for 3 or 4 years now. Love it. Never want to go back.
But one of the reasons I like it is because I am an antisocial git, and find the trials, tribulations, gossip and politics of my co-workers rather tiresome.

I get FAR more work done.
I can garden or walk the dogs, or sit in the hot tub during my lunch breaks.
Most of my interactions are written - which means I have a wonderful audit trail for requests, queries, info supplied, deadlines, etc.
I get more time to deal with queries efficiently, with less pressure.
The dogs have company all day.
My desk setup is 10x better than it would be in the cramped openplan plague pit of the office (I used to sit next to a grandmother who diligently imported every grandchild’s virus, and then infected me by grabbing my mouse 3x a day)
My desk is bigger - but not very big.
My screen is a 50 inch tv we retired from the front room when we went ultra HD. It is much better than the poxy 2nd screen work offered me.
I don’t have to bother with those awful softphone headphones everyone has to use in the office for phonecalls since they removed from the phones
My desk chair is gorgeous. The office ones did terrible things to my back. This one has up down, seat tilt, back tilt and back up/down, is leather and fit for 24 hr use. I could live in this chair. We invested in it rather than import one of those awful ones from work, and I tell you, if I ever have to work in an office again, this chair is coming with me!
My lovely ergonomic keyboard and joystick mouse don’t have to be hidden each evening in case ppl borrow them while hotdesking if I am away.
There’s a widget where I can switch between my own computer setup, and my work computer setup at the flick of a switch, and still use the 50 inch screen.
When I stand and stretch and move, I can do proper yoga moves without someone thinking I’ve gone mad.
I have a Nano cube fish tank on my desk. The shrimp have just had babies! I am a grandma!
I am 8 feet from the kettle and 10 feet from the fridge.
No one else messes in or stinks up my loo.
I am home for all workmen, deliveries and the window cleaner.
I have long, chatty, private convos with selected co-workers and my line manager. No eavesdroppers.
I have a far better relationship with everyone, since they no longer irritate me
My hours are far more flexible.
I can watch the feeder being decimated by hoards of ravening birds, and cat visitors failing to catch them and being chased off by my indignant dogs. That never gets old.
No one gets to judge my Weird food anymore.
I save an hour a day commute time, and parking costs and all that hassle.

Meanwhile, back at the office, they are having to cut occupancy from 250 staff in daily residence down to about 50 and make significant spending to introduce one way systems, screens and airlocks. Some windows now open for the first time in living memory! Which means there will be endless daily whinging from the Window Shut I'm Cold people (You know, the ones who want to wear a cotton teeshirt all year round). And most of those who were sent home for Lockdown are desperate not to have to go back.

I realise I am lucky to have the space to work as I do, but this is not a big house. It is a small Edwardian terrace, 2 up, 2 down, bath and kitch. We use the space carefully. My desk is a medium one. I was just lucky to have an opportunity to work from home long before the Lockdown Stampede, and have learned/evolved to create an environment that works for me - and produces better quality, more productive work output AND a happier employee as a result.

obviously, this post is not in the slightest bit helpful to those of you being forced back into social contact and work without social distancing. I am sorry. I really feel for you. But I do hope that my post helps those of you stuck at home resenting it and finding it difficult to adjust. If that is your situation, there IS hope. There are lots and lots of ways to make homeworking both pleasurable, comfortable and productive. And less stressful than being stuck in the office with people who you would never have chosen to socialise with for 9 hours a day...

this is my little 12 inch cube fishtank and the guy in charge

I am loving lockdown. I have learned that I, too, am naturally an antisocial git and much of my mental health issues have been exacerbated by having to cope with uncongenial humans and forced interaction with them.

My true self has been discovered

JRT said:

That should read nonsensical!

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But the first version was funnier

Brunneria said:

I think you are vastly underestimating the number of employees whose incomes will be decimated by the closure of 'a few sandwich shops' and high street chains. It isn't just a few people. It is a massive network of office, frontline, delivery, and manufacturing staff. I feel for every one of them - especially since none of those jobs are particularly well paying in the first place.

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If we can't buy, say, a replacement washing machine in a shop on the high street we shan't cart our laundry to the banks of the nearest stream and do it by hand. We shall buy the machine online where almost all the jobs involved in designing it, manufacturing it, delivering it and so forth, and all the office jobs connected with these activities will still be there. Only the retail assistant who processes the transaction may not. Even then, someone or something has to be involved in taking the payment. The bank people who process the card transaction, the web designers who set up the payment page and the people who design, produce and maintain all our computers and their systems will still be needed. If more people work from home fewer sandwich shops may be needed but other businesses which, for example, design, manufacture, sell (online probably) and deliver home office equipment will be required. Obviously it will all take some time to settle down after the pandemic, but there will still be jobs, just different ones. People will have to be adaptable and embrace change. Edit to add for example "
"Delivery giant to hire 10,500 amid UK online shopping surge" (BBC news)
This will include 1,500 full-time roles across its delivery network and head office, and 9,000 freelance couriers.

It comes as a raft of companies make job cuts due to the pandemic.

He said the firm had received thousands of applications from pub staff, hairdressers, pilots and others who had been let go at the start of lockdown.

We went birding on the Solway saturday to see a Long-billed Dowitcher.
There was no social distancing amongst the old men on the green as we passed Port Carlisle bowls club. They were sitting in the sun on benches wetting their whistles.or examining their shots together on the green.
As we approach the twitch a birder I knew wanted to chat and came right up to me to the better half's dismay. Youngsters and residents were behaving as if it was all over.
You wouldn't believe that a few miles away in Carlisle they are having real problems with covid 19..Oh and when we had seen the bird one of the bowls persons who I knew from church came across and wanted to chat face to face, I put out my elbow to be sociable.
Boy, it is difficult if you go out, even in the country.
regards
Derek
Ps. No one was wearing a mask.

Tannith said:

If we can't buy, say, a replacement washing machine in a shop on the high street we shan't cart our laundry to the banks of the nearest stream and do it by hand. We shall buy the machine online where almost all the jobs involved in designing it, manufacturing it, delivering it and so forth, and all the office jobs connected with these activities will still be there. Only the retail assistant who processes the transaction may not. Even then, someone or something has to be involved in taking the payment. The bank people who process the card transaction, the web designers who set up the payment page and the people who design, produce and maintain all our computers and their systems will still be needed. If more people work from home fewer sandwich shops may be needed but other businesses which, for example, design, manufacture, sell (online probably) and deliver home office equipment will be required. Obviously it will all take some time to settle down after the pandemic, but there will still be jobs, just different ones. People will have to be adaptable and embrace change. Edit to add for example "
"Delivery giant to hire 10,500 amid UK online shopping surge" (BBC news)
This will include 1,500 full-time roles across its delivery network and head office, and 9,000 freelance couriers.

It comes as a raft of companies make job cuts due to the pandemic.

He said the firm had received thousands of applications from pub staff, hairdressers, pilots and others who had been let go at the start of lockdown.

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You have no need to convince me of the convenience of internet shopping. We have been buying our white goods online for nearly 20 years now (usually better deals than the high street), but I hope you don't think that more of that kind of thing will employ the hundreds of thousands of shop workers whose livelihoods are at risk if the high streets collapse. Plus all the other jobs that will end as a knock on effect.

Zero hour contract delivery drives (aka 'freelance couriers') have a horrible job and a very high turnover, no long term security, and a very variable income. They have to provide their own vehicle and maintain it. It is also very physically demanding, whether in high summer, wet autumn, freezing mid winter or harsh spring. Not something everyone can do.