1. Get the Diabetes Forum App for your phone - available on iOS and Android.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Guest, we'd love to know what you think about the forum! Take the Diabetes Forum Survey 2020 »
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Diabetes Forum should not be used in an emergency and does not replace your healthcare professional relationship. Posts can be seen by the public.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Guest, stay home, stay safe, save the NHS. Stay up to date with information about keeping yourself and people around you safe here and GOV.UK: Coronavirus (COVID-19). Think you have symptoms? NHS 111 service is available here.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
Find support, ask questions and share your experiences. Join the community »

Covid/Coronavirus and diabetes - the numbers

Discussion in 'Diabetes Discussions' started by Lupf, May 15, 2020.

  1. zand

    zand Type 2 · Expert

    Messages:
    9,581
    Likes Received:
    15,750
    Trophy Points:
    198
    Thank you for posting this. If even fit young adults take a while to get over the virus then it gives me some hope that one day, maybe after several months or a year, I will eventually recover too. :)
     
    • Hug Hug x 5
  2. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

    Messages:
    16,640
    Likes Received:
    11,422
    Trophy Points:
    298
    • Informative Informative x 3
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. NicoleC1971

    NicoleC1971 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,452
    Likes Received:
    1,534
    Trophy Points:
    198
    Thanks for sharing BulkBiker!
    If we are willing to be sceptical about the government advice re healthy wholegrains, saturated fat and statins, why are we not more sceptical about the government's spin on the Covid science also?
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  4. HSSS

    HSSS Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,575
    Likes Received:
    2,257
    Trophy Points:
    198
    Oh believe me I am. I don’t trust half the spin and even less of the so called explanations/reasoning/science of which there have been far too little. That doesn’t mean I think it’s just flu either though.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  5. Max68

    Max68 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    531
    Likes Received:
    591
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Spin can work both ways. At the moment it could be less dangerous than what we are being fed, but at the same time it could be more dangerous than what we are being fed. Who knows>?! If the Government is that concerned about the economy and it's just a little flu I would be expecting Boris to be out there without a mask kissing everyone he meets - or maybe he did that before!!!

    Interesting with what's being going on in Florida. They seem in big trouble so that kinda debunks the hot weather will kill the virus off theory! Not a little flu then! Then with all the theme parks opening only a few weeks ago (thousands and thousands of kids in one place all laughing, screaming and with little hands on all the rides) surely if you add the dots up it points to kids as well as adults being able to spread the thing!
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. Bill_St

    Bill_St Type 1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    165
    Likes Received:
    62
    Trophy Points:
    68
    Very glad to see to UK Government taking immediate action over the figures that I posted yesterday on Spanish numbers.
    Next stage must be testing and tracing - people coming back from Spain provide the ideal opportunity as a group that can be tested.
    People may not like it but we can learn a lot from this.
    Action not just spin.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. urbanracer

    urbanracer Type 1 · Moderator
    Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,594
    Likes Received:
    3,405
    Trophy Points:
    198
    Boris had the virus and he understands the illness. He described his own situation as being 'touch and go' after leaving hospital. Whether this was real or (as some seem to believe) an attempt to milk the sympathy vote, we will never know.

    It seems to suit some people's political agenda to discuss the pandemic in terms of a flu by using carefully selected data to justify their stance.

    Usually it amounts to nothing more than a casual look at the headline numbers and some rather blasé acceptance that up to 2% of the populace dying is somehow an acceptable price to pay for not having any restrictions on personal freedoms in place.

    In the news today is a story about 21 workers at steel plant in Mexico dying from Covid-19. In my living memory, there has not been a (seasonal) influenza outbreak that has killed so many working age people.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. Max68

    Max68 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    531
    Likes Received:
    591
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That's my point entirely. My point was all the quotes I see everywhere re spin suggest the virus is less deadly whereas why would restrictions etc be in place if that was the case?! Personally however I don't think Boris does understand the virus, even though it nearly killed him. If he did I suspect he would be more cautious than he is being, especially in his approach with regard to the vulnerable.
     
  9. NicoleC1971

    NicoleC1971 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,452
    Likes Received:
    1,534
    Trophy Points:
    198
    A suggestion to those worried. Why not check local infection rates?
    For example I live in Surrey and as of today there were 8 cases of CoVid and 0 deaths. Consequently I feel confident that I won't catch the virus given the massive decline in cases and deaths seen here.
    Just google your own county to do the same.
    My own personal risk seems to be low as a 49 year old type 1 with no obesity or other issues. Again I have looked at data (Simon On' Neill's analysis shared on Diabetes UK and Prof Kar's NHS study).
    None of this analysis is political though every side has used the virus to try and make their own point following the maxim of not letting a good crisis go to waste!
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  10. urbanracer

    urbanracer Type 1 · Moderator
    Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,594
    Likes Received:
    3,405
    Trophy Points:
    198
    Yes! Pretty good proof that social distancing, hand washing, and face masks are having a powerful affect on transmission rates.

    I hope that people don't get complacent though.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. Andydragon

    Andydragon Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    507
    Likes Received:
    775
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Given that mask wearing seems to have suddenly made people believe social distancing is optional in the shops I’ve been in... yeah, not so sure!

    I am more worried about communal areas in my workplace. All the desk cleansing is fine, what about toilets and kitchens and those who are infected and not showing signs?

    Lockdown pushed me to change my life. Hba1c from 78 to 46. Large weight loss and I’m still young enough but doesn’t stop me being scared :(
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  12. HSSS

    HSSS Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,575
    Likes Received:
    2,257
    Trophy Points:
    198
    Social distancing was seriously lacking before mask wearing in my experiences so at least now there’s some protection. My workplace is woeful in the cleaning of these areas.
    Well done on your achievements. No doubt it has massively increased your ability to fight the virus should you be exposed, as well as many other aspects of your health.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  13. NicoleC1971

    NicoleC1971 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,452
    Likes Received:
    1,534
    Trophy Points:
    198
    Except that none of the data suggests a casual link between lockdowns and mask wearing with lower transmission rates. Hand washing and social distancing may have been enough.
    Since we can't suppress this virus totally and it is now active again in the Southern hemisphere we are going to have to work out a way to live with this. By living with it I mean letting our kids go to school, being sociable and getting to the cinema/theatre and football matches if we want to take whatever risk there is. It is certainly good manners to wash hands when there are bugs around and not to cough or sneeze on others.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  14. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Moderator
    Staff Member

    Messages:
    20,949
    Likes Received:
    34,590
    Trophy Points:
    298
    Like HSSS, I seem to be living in an area where social distancing went out the window weeks ago.
    Good job we are in a v low COVID infection area, eh? :)
    Even on dog walks, the central takeaway that people seem to have absorbed is that if you need masks indoors, then you don't need to bother to distance if you aren't indoors and wearing a mask.
    Bizarre thinking, but apparently widespread.
    We just got back from a dog walk a people were crowding me more today than at any time since the start of social distancing.
    They backed off when I got my mask out. :doctor:
     
    #494 Brunneria, Jul 26, 2020 at 12:42 PM
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2020
  15. HSSS

    HSSS Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,575
    Likes Received:
    2,257
    Trophy Points:
    198
    When I encounter people whilst wearing my visor it does the same thing. Perhaps the more outrageous we look the more distance we’ll be given. Now I have some thoughts on that :p
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  16. urbanracer

    urbanracer Type 1 · Moderator
    Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,594
    Likes Received:
    3,405
    Trophy Points:
    198
    I disagree. We went into lockdown and infection levels rose initially because people were confined in their homes and gave it to family members.

    Then transmission levels fell because people were not moving around and infecting others outside their own homes. I think the data correlates very well.

    What seems to get forgotten is the time lag inherent in the incubation period being up to 14 days, and possibly several weeks between confirmation of covid symptoms and any fatalities.

    The whole face mask discussion is still open but I am willing to accept that it may reduce the risk of me unknowingly passing the virus on to others.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  17. NicoleC1971

    NicoleC1971 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,452
    Likes Received:
    1,534
    Trophy Points:
    198


    IF you have any respect for 'Fat Emperor' Ivor Cummins' work on the root causes of metabolic disease perhaps you would take a few minutes to see his take on the data?
     
  18. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Moderator
    Staff Member

    Messages:
    20,949
    Likes Received:
    34,590
    Trophy Points:
    298
    I watched that back in May when it was topical. But things, the world, and various national and international situations have moved a long way on from then.

    The endless mantra that the R value was dropping before lockdown is a red herring, and I am astonished that so called ‘forward thinkers’ are still being rolled out to spout it. Why? Because vast numbers of the population were already taking great care Long before that date. Covid had been the main news item since Jan/Feb. Anyone following that, with an appreciation of their own vulnerability/mortality were already taking precautions. In addition, UK testing at the time was pitiable. No one has a clue how widespread things were - because there weren’t enough tests being run. Therefore, all R numbers from that period are blind guesses. Spinning theories based on them is folly.

    I ‘locked down’ around the beginning of March. My employer encouraged people to prepare their equipment and switch to home working (if poss) 2 weeks before the uk govt got its act together.I think my only trips out in March were a vet trip (post op and therefore unavoidable) and dog walks. Many people here on the forum and in their wider communities were doing the same. .

    By that time I knew of 2 local care homes with covid deaths, the husband of a colleague was on a respirator (later to die) and my sister in law had been called to a friend’s deathbed (full PPE, 15 min stay) to say her goodbyes. A lot of people had already learned the hard way to implement their own personal common sense precautions

    I’m afraid that Ivor Cummins comments, as at 28th May, are not going to have any impact on me now, 26th July. Especially since he is drawing on figures and testing rates that are way out of date.

    For example, his comments on Israel (previously the poster child of C-19) are now proven completely wrong.
    https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-second-wave-of-covid-hits-israel-like-a-tsunami

    Edited to add: I have always had a lot of time for people like Ivor Cummins, their attitude, their willingness to investigate, etc. etc. But they have jumped on the Rebellion Bandwagon too early this time. They and everyone else are sticking their necks out too far, too soon, and there is plenty of egg ready to fly onto their faces. I love the work on Vit C, D, zinc, the info on spread, the discussion, but 6 months into this? No one knows the outcome. I am sure some of what they say will be right. And some wrong. Time will tell.

    so far, preliminary info seems clear, lockdown served exactly the purpose it was advertised as doing - flattened the curve. It has given people time to study, speculate, hoard PPE, share good practice on treatment, in the hope that when (or if) second waves happen (e.g. Israel and possibly Spain) they will be better able to cope. Of course, countries like Brazil and India had no luxury of an effective preparatory lockdown and adequate prep time. I really feel for them.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    #498 Brunneria, Jul 26, 2020 at 4:09 PM
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2020
  19. lindisfel

    lindisfel · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,794
    Likes Received:
    2,703
    Trophy Points:
    158
    I am perplexed by why they have nailed their colours to this particular mast, when at the very worst some of the evidence is superficially ambiguous. I hope it's not excessive hubris.
    D.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Moderator
    Staff Member

    Messages:
    20,949
    Likes Received:
    34,590
    Trophy Points:
    298
    Mind you, to be fair to Ivor Cummins, I doubt very much whether he ever expected a video he put together back in May to be quoted as the last word on Lockdown, on a forum two months later. I expect his ideas, and the info informing them is under constant evolution. It is just that once someone has nailed their colours to the mast on the internet, there is always someone willing to drag it out of mothballs, isn't there?
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  • Meet the Community

    Find support, connect with others, ask questions and share your experiences with people with diabetes, their carers and family.

    Did you know: 7 out of 10 people improve their understanding of diabetes within 6 months of being a Diabetes Forum member. Get the Diabetes Forum App and stay connected on iOS and Android

    Grab the app!
  • Tweet with us

  • Like us on Facebook