Once again we seem to be focusing merely on deaths from covid. It's important not to forget the long term after effects of having had covid, not just with long covid, but also an increase in conditions such as T1 and T2 diabetes.
@Jim Lahey if you don’t think vaccines have saved lives there really isn’t much point in you and I discussing this any further, stay safe.
That is not what I said. I said there’s no way to ever know if they have made a material difference or by how much. There’s an assumption that they have saved millions lives but I’m yet to see any data that convinces me of this. In fact some data paints a pretty dubious picture overall, but I won’t go into it here. Firstly because I will get censored, but also because this thread isn’t about vaccines.
The 2,000 you mention are people who died shortly after having the vaccine, not surprising as the vaccine was proritised for the very old and vulnerable. The number who died because of a reaction to the vaccine in the whole of the UK is about 10.One aspect of this whole saga that really stings is that the VAERS and Yellow Card data is completely ignored at every turn. Two thousand confirmed kills in the UK alone.
The 2,000 you mention are people who died shortly after having the vaccine, not surprising as the vaccine was proritised for the very old and vulnerable. The number who died because of a reaction to the vaccine in the whole of the UK is about 10.
@Jim Lahey imay be reading you wrong, do you consider yourself to be an anti vaxer ?
where is that rate coming from please? Officially it is less than 1% I’ve read. In which case your numbers are way off. And a false positive is annoying/problematic for one person maybe one family. A false negative (between 40 and 60% in real world usage rather than experts in labs) impacts a huge amount more people that are then exposed to this falsely reassured person.At a ~3% false positive rate,
The CDC recently implied that the RT-PCR cannot actually discriminate between SARS-CoV-2 and influenza. I obviously can’t comment either way, but the almost complete disappearance of flu since winter 2019/20 does raise an eyebrow. The CDC document has of course since been Fact Checked but, to be honest, the official explanation is a right old word salad and seems designed to confuse even further.
where is that rate coming from please? Officially it is less than 1% I’ve read. In which case your numbers are way off. And a false positive is annoying/problematic for one person maybe one family. A false negative (between 40 and 60% in real world usage rather than experts in labs) impacts a huge amount more people that are then exposed to this falsely reassured person.
Somewhat moot now anyway as so few will be testing going forward anyway.
so nothing to do with the measures in place to prevent the spread of the more transmissible covid has also reduced the spread of the less easily caught flu?
Links to these claims please so we can make our own assessment of the claims/fact checks rather than rely on your summary
Source please?
Or is this reported and claimed ‘kills’ yet to be investigated and potentially either confirmed or quite clearly unrelated.
One aspect of this whole saga that really stings is that the VAERS and Yellow Card data is completely ignored at every turn. Two thousand confirmed kills in the UK alone. A small percentage maybe, but never before have we celebrated a vaccine where one of the known side effects is death. Personal choice is one thing, but are we really ok with pressuring, shaming, bullying and bribing people into having an injection that may kill them? It appears that we are.
I’m pro choice and pro informed consent. There is no long term safety data which, for me, means there is no informed consent. Anyone who claims to have safety data also has a time machine. My personal risk assessment points to the injection posing a greater potential risk to me than the virus. I may be wrong but that is my cross to bear and I will live or die with the consequences.
I’m aware that some folk may counter with the ‘but it’s to protect others’ mantra, but never before in history has a medication only worked if someone else takes it, so I roundly reject that idea. I encourage people to make their own choices and I will make mine. If that makes me an “anti-vaxxer” in the minds of some then I won’t lose any sleep over it
ETA: @BrianDoc vis-à-vis your main point that I redacted from the quote - one thing has nothing to do with the other. There are official sources which can be used to analyse vaccine injury and death. Contrarily, if a vaccinated person survives it is simply impossible to claim that they would otherwise have died.
There's a lot of misleading information out there that makes wild claims* similar to the ones you're making, citing VAERS and the Yellow Card System. This has been disproven by doctors and fact checkers. The statistics your citing are probably in this bucket, but if you'd be willing to provide your source we could have more open discussion about the claims you're making.Possibly. But we can never know for sure.
ETA: @HSSS I am not going to get into a game of link tennis. People either agree or they don’t. The information is freely available to everyone.
There's a lot of misleading information out there that makes wild claims* similar to the ones you're making, citing VAERS and the Yellow Card System. This has been disproven by doctors and fact checkers. The statistics your citing are probably in this bucket, but if you'd be willing to provide your source we could have more open discussion about the claims you're making.
*Nutshell sum up of complex analysis a cause and effect relationship was asserted where none in fact could be proven to any satisfactory level.
There's a lot of misleading information out there that makes wild claims* similar to the ones you're making, citing VAERS and the Yellow Card System. This has been disproven by doctors and fact checkers. The statistics your citing are probably in this bucket, but if you'd be willing to provide your source we could have more open discussion about the claims you're making.
*Nutshell sum up of complex analysis a cause and effect relationship was asserted where none in fact could be proven to any satisfactory level.