Creating an 800 cals diet/Newcastle style using meal replacement

[Glyko]

I want your opinions on my idea...

I have found a meal replacement protein powder (whey based) with low carb content and no added sugar, formulated with vitamins. It is to be used as replacement for 2 meals a day maximum.

I was thinking of using 2 shakes a day( each shake is 100 cals, but I up the fat and cals using full fat youghurt, and peanutbutter and/ or mct oil) plus a serving of vegetables - getting 800 cals. Also use vitamin supplement.

What do you think of this? I really need to lose weight and have spoken to a dietician. She said ok using Huel powder for up to 2 months for 800 cals. (But I think Huel is too much carbs and contains tapioca starch).

What do you think of this approach? About 800 cals, 20 - 30 g carbs, 50 g protein, 60 g fats (roughly).

Thankful for your input!

 

[ianf0ster]

Hi @Glyko , if you really think that you need to restrict all the way down to 800 calories, then your plan seems OK.
However there are alternatives that I personally would prefer :

1. still 800 calories, but do it with real foods as per Dr Michael Moseley (from Trust Me I'm a Doctor).

2. Just cut the carbohydrates and the weight will fall off without the danger of worsening your metabolic rate and hence your ability to keep the weight off. Note This is what I did as a Thin Outside Fat Inside (TOFI) T2 Diabetic. In fact I increased my calories by approx 500 per day on a low carb way of eating and still lost around 2lbs per week (a nice sustainable number).Note that I lost this weight despite trying to lose as little weight as possible! I just ate meals that raised my Blood Glucose by less than 2.0 mmol from just before a meal to 2hrs after first bite. Adding more Protein and Fat to make up for the calories in the carbohydrates I had cut, then adding yet more protein and fat in an attempt not to lose too much weight.

Do bear in mind that if you do cut calories, you will still have to fins a long term sustainable way of eating to transition to after the initial 8 or 12 weeks is over. and Low Carb is the obvious choice!- So why not do that from the start?

In my case I found that I needed to eat between 20gms and 40gms of carbs (depending on the type of carb) per day in order to keep my Blood Glucose within range. Overall I lost (at peak) 30lbs which was over 17% of my body weight, though I have since deliberately managed to put on an extra 4lbs since then.

 

[Glyko]

Hi @Glyko , if you really think that you need to restrict all the way down to 800 calories, then your plan seems OK.
However there are alternatives that I personally would prefer :

1. still 800 calories, but do it with real foods as per Dr Michael Moseley (from Trust Me I'm a Doctor).

2. Just cut the carbohydrates and the weight will fall off without the danger of worsening your metabolic rate and hence your ability to keep the weight off. Note This is what I did as a Thin Outside Fat Inside (TOFI) T2 Diabetic. In fact I increased my calories by approx 500 per day on a low carb way of eating and still lost around 2lbs per week (a nice sustainable number).Note that I lost this weight despite trying to lose as little weight as possible! I just ate meals that raised my Blood Glucose by less than 2.0 mmol from just before a meal to 2hrs after first bite. Adding more Protein and Fat to make up for the calories in the carbohydrates I had cut, then adding yet more protein and fat in an attempt not to lose too much weight.

Do bear in mind that if you do cut calories, you will still have to fins a long term sustainable way of eating to transition to after the initial 8 or 12 weeks is over. and Low Carb is the obvious choice!- So why not do that from the start?

In my case I found that I needed to eat between 20gms and 40gms of carbs (depending on the type of carb) per day in order to keep my Blood Glucose within range. Overall I lost (at peak) 30lbs which was over 17% of my body weight, though I have since deliberately managed to put on an extra 4lbs since then.

Thanks for the lengthy reply. Great help, much appreciated.

I eat low carb high fat usually, but have been unsuccessful losing weight.
The best would be to do the Fast 800, but I am a bit depressed right now and need something easy to follow.
My plan is to do 5:2 or 2MAD using low carb diet style after this "modified Newcastle diet".

Thanks for your insight and help!

 

[ultradad]

I agree with everything ianFOster said. I am down 5 stone and actualy trying to put a bit of weight on now. I kept it simple i just have 4 eggs and cheese scrambled eggs in the morning and some protein at 4ish and thats it. Just find what works for you and something that you can do long term

 

[Pipp]

Thanks for the lengthy reply. Great help, much appreciated.

I eat low carb high fat usually, but have been unsuccessful losing weight.
The best would be to do the Fast 800, but I am a bit depressed right now and need something easy to follow.
My plan is to do 5:2 or 2MAD using low carb diet style after this "modified Newcastle diet".

Thanks for your insight and help!

My experience is that I lost a great deal of weight, 49kg, eleven years ago using the Very Low Calorie / Newcastle diet, using Lipotrim. This also brought my BG levels into non-diabetes range. Even though I still had weight to lose.
Since then, have ( for around 8 years) used LCHF. I have regained some of the weight, about 18 kg, and have not been able to shift it, despite trying intermittent fasting, and intense exercise. I think the High Fat in LCHF is, for me, better changed to mean ‘Healthy Fats’. So rather than lots of butter, cream etc, I am using olive oil, and eating oily fish, like salmon, instead.
Not meaning to digress but I am curious as to why you are trying to create your own Very Low Calorie meal replacememts when there are plenty of varieties commercially available, that are, despite being ‘artifical’ , nutritionally complete. They would be much easier to follow than making up your own version.
It is good that you have already considered your follow on diet. Best wishes with your goals, and I hope you feel better soon.

 

[Glyko]

Thanks for the reply.

I live in Sweden and can't find low carb meal replacement. I bought Huel but my skin started itching. There is Nutrilett or similar here...averaging about 50-70 g of carbs per day on 800 cals. I don't know if thats ok ?

Hm...

I

My experience is that I lost a great deal of weight, 49kg, eleven years ago using the Very Low Calorie / Newcastle diet, using Lipotrim. This also brought my BG levels into non-diabetes range. Even though I still had weight to lose.
Since then, have ( for around 8 years) used LCHF. I have regained some of the weight, about 18 kg, and have not been able to shift it, despite trying intermittent fasting, and intense exercise. I think the High Fat in LCHF is, for me, better changed to mean ‘Healthy Fats’. So rather than lots of butter, cream etc, I am using olive oil, and eating oily fish, like salmon, instead.
Not meaning to digress but I am curious as to why you are trying to create your own Very Low Calorie meal replacememts when there are plenty of varieties commercially available, that are, despite being ‘artifical’ , nutritionally complete. They would be much easier to follow than making up your own version.
It is good that you have already considered your follow on diet. Best wishes with your goals, and I hope you feel better soon.

 

[Glyko]

I'm afraid of eggs...haha. Ever since I was told I have gallstones I have avoided eggs...but I think I need to reconsider that ad some of you guys have explained.

I agree with everything ianFOster said. I am down 5 stone and actualy trying to put a bit of weight on now. I kept it simple i just have 4 eggs and cheese scrambled eggs in the morning and some protein at 4ish and thats it. Just find what works for you and something that you can do long term

 

[MrsA2]

I'd suggest you give it a try.
If it doesn't suit you can always stop or change it.
Adding green veg might also help, few calories or carbs but extra vitamins and fibre.
I tried 800 using real food and managed about a month, but I was hungry, a lot.!
In the longer term low carb seems to suit me and I am mostly not hungry, except in normal reasons. For example today I go out fasted to yoga class. Today's was quite strenuous and I was really hungry by the time I got home, so I ate chicken with skin and 97% pork sausages until I was full about 11:30 a.m and am still very full now at 4 p.m

 

[Glyko]

I'd suggest you give it a try.
If it doesn't suit you can always stop or change it.
Adding green veg might also help, few calories or carbs but extra vitamins and fibre.
I tried 800 using real food and managed about a month, but I was hungry, a lot.!
In the longer term low carb seems to suit me and I am mostly not hungry, except in normal reasons. For example today I go out fasted to yoga class. Today's was quite strenuous and I was really hungry by the time I got home, so I ate chicken with skin and 97% pork sausages until I was full about 11:30 a.m and am still very full now at 4 p.m

I tested the regime yesterday and couldnt sleep. I might ditch the idea. As someone said, formulating my own VLCD might be a bad idea. I tried Huel with full fat youghurt and it was ok. But I'm not sure.

I don't want to do VLCD longterm just for a while, so if anyone knows any brand that is relatively low carb and ships to sweden. Let me know...

 

[MrsA2]

I tested the regime yesterday and couldnt sleep. I might ditch the idea. As someone said, formulating my own VLCD might be a bad idea. I tried Huel with full fat youghurt and it was ok. But I'm not sure.

I don't want to do VLCD longterm just for a while, so if anyone knows any brand that is relatively low carb and ships to sweden. Let me know...

No one says the 800 takes will power as you do get hungry!
An alternative is fasting totally a couple of days a week. Also needs will power, but you can tell yourself, "this ends tomorrow "
Any change in regime will cause a reaction in the first few days, as your body throws a tantrum at any change. Even those first few days in low carb can be painful as the body screams out for the sugar it's used to. Sometimes we just have to bite the bullet

 

[NicoleC1971]

I want your opinions on my idea...

I have found a meal replacement protein powder (whey based) with low carb content and no added sugar, formulated with vitamins. It is to be used as replacement for 2 meals a day maximum.

I was thinking of using 2 shakes a day( each shake is 100 cals, but I up the fat and cals using full fat youghurt, and peanutbutter and/ or mct oil) plus a serving of vegetables - getting 800 cals. Also use vitamin supplement.

What do you think of this? I really need to lose weight and have spoken to a dietician. She said ok using Huel powder for up to 2 months for 800 cals. (But I think Huel is too much carbs and contains tapioca starch).

What do you think of this approach? About 800 cals, 20 - 30 g carbs, 50 g protein, 60 g fats (roughly).

Thankful for your input!

Just wondering what the burry to lose weight is about?
Are your blood sugars responding well to your low carb diet? If yes and your appetite mechanisms adjust to using up body fat then in theory you should find you lose body fat eventually but maybe it will not be a linear thing so don't just look down at the number on the scales for a measure of your health.
If it is an urgent thing then I'd hope the regime you propose will turbo charge your metabolic makeover and teach your hunger hormones to settle down so that it doesn't feel like a white knuckle ride.

 

[Oldvatr]

The 800 vlcd is Boot Camp for diabetics. IMO. It is supposed to be a short sharp shock lasting around 8 weeks max. Longer term, and you will notice that it is nutrient deficient even though it may be Fortified, it is not a 'Complete' solution. an LC diet using natural food is generally a complete diet, especially when it incorporates meat and dairy products.

I must point out that the ND diet using shakes is supposed to be run under medical supervision, and the NHS advises that it should only be used by people with BMI above 27kg/m2

The ND diet etc use shakes where the carb content is high enough so that on 3 shakes a day, you are low carb but not in ketosis. Using a lower carb variant such as you are intending will probably put you into ketosis especially on only 2 shakes a day. I would advise you obtain a suitable shake that does not add the ketosis into the equation if you are doing this yourself. The 800 type diets prescribed by the NHS need a daily carb intake of between 70 and 120 g a day..

Or do as suggested, forget the shakes / vlcd, and go lowcarb instead. Yes it will take a bit longer, but is less stress on you and your body.

Suitable shakes are Optifast, Slimfast, and the Cambridge Diet shakes. There are other, but these are the ones that ND used in the trials.Try Amazon?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/cambridge-diet-products/s?k=cambridge+diet+products

 

[Pipp]

https://www.ncl.ac.uk/media/wwwncla.../files/201809 Sample Recipes & meal plans.pdf

This is the info from the Newcastle University team.
My own experience of using the method was during initial research period, but I was not part of the cohort of research participants. I would advise you to proceed with extreme caution, and preferably with support from Health care professionals. I was monitored and supprted by GP, monthly, and by pharmacy weekly, when I collected the diet products. This involved checking weight, blood pressure, blood glucose levels, and urine sample for ketones. I really would not advocate doing it without the monitoring and support.
Most important that a small amount of fat, about a teaspoon at least, of healthy fat / oil is added to prevent gallstones, and some green vegetables, too.
I would imagine pharmacies in Sweden would have appropriate products. Also, the mild ketosis induced by the reduced calorie intake suppresses appetite, I did not feel hungry at all.
What people tend to forget is that ND is two parts. First the reduced calorie part for maximum of 12 weeks. Afterwards you need to have afollow on plan. No use going back to the sort of diet that made you gain weight in the first place.

 

[Daibell]

Forget Calories as they are the wrong measure and don't address the key differences between the three food groups. Just think Low-carb Higher Fat plus Proteins and you will get there.

 

[Glyko]

Thanks for the replies. Appreciated and read them several times.

I tested my sugars after two days of liquid vlcd diet and it was elevated. So I can't risc my health...It's not worth fast weightloss. I will try to do 800-1200 cals LCHF again. The loss was very slow in my experience but I don't have any other choice.

 

[Outlier]

Speaking as someone whohas lost an appreciable amount of weight on LCHF, if you lose it slowly, you don't look as if you need ironing.

 

[Oldvatr]

If reverting to LCHF then forget calories. I do LCHF and I go by the following. If the carbs per 100g is 5 or less, then I can eat without feeling guilty. Between 5 and 10% then i count these as treats for occasional inclusion. Above 20% then it becomes a NoNo except the occasional cheat meal on special occasions. I have never counted calories, and I also do not count carbs except as noted previous.

This seems to work for me. I lost 8 stones on it, but I have plateaued with my BMI of just under 21, and I am happy to remain at this weight (61kg). I did have to renew my wardrobe contents, though. My jeans were 38" waist, but now I need 30" or they fall off me (TOFI) I wear braces (suspenders) just to make sure I do not disgrace myself.

 

[Glyko]

Speaking as someone whohas lost an appreciable amount of weight on LCHF, if you lose it slowly, you don't look as if you need ironing.

Ok haha.

I don't have good charactere, I want quick results. Protein shakes would be a great idea for me as a complement, but now I'm concerned whey would raise my sugars...does anyone know if casein is better for blood sugars?
I have tried OMAD but couldnt keep up, maybe eating a meal plus a protein shake would be more manageable and faster.

?

 

[Glyko]

If reverting to LCHF then forget calories. I do LCHF and I go by the following. If the carbs per 100g is 5 or less, then I can eat without feeling guilty. Between 5 and 10% then i count these as treats for occasional inclusion. Above 20% then it becomes a NoNo except the occasional cheat meal on special occasions. I have never counted calories, and I also do not count carbs except as noted previous.

This seems to work for me. I lost 8 stones on it, but I have plateaued with my BMI of just under 21, and I am happy to remain at this weight (61kg). I did have to renew my wardrobe contents, though. My jeans were 38" waist, but now I need 30" or they fall off me (TOFI) I wear braces (suspenders) just to make sure I do not disgrace myself.

8 stones...wow! That's freaking amazing.

How long did it take? How many meals do you eat a typical day/what do you eat?

My problem is I need patience and consistency. Measurable progress is best...

 

[Oldvatr]

8 stones...wow! That's freaking amazing.

How long did it take? How many meals do you eat a typical day/what do you eat?

My problem is I need patience and consistency. Measurable progress is best...

We each of us need to find what suits us best. My woe may not suit you since you are doing more exercise than me. FWIW I am on TWOMAD and I am using a small amount of diabetic medication (minimum dose) to allow me to eat some carbs. So i can eat a few potatoes and not see major spikes.

Are you testing yourself after meals? I test before the meal, then again at 2 hrs, then again at 4hrs after first bite. This gives good information on how suitable the food I eat is in terms of diabetic control, and it covers the long term falloff when I eat a meal with fat or high protein in it. Note that protein can also lead to blood sugar increase like carbs, but at a slower rate. Increasing fat delays the spikes, but otherwise does not normally affect blood sugar levels, so your need for protein shakes may still affect your sugars due simply to the protein. A rough guide is that protein is approx half the amount of carbs in terms of sugar effect.