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Dare I mention the word carb??????

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oh_dear_me

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Hello,

Firstly can I start this with the fact that I am in awe of so many on here following such a strict LCHF diet and also to say I am type 2 (we think) healthy bmi/weight. But are there any forum members out there who don't follow such a diet regime? Or at least not such a low carb diet?

You see I am struggling at the moment....a lot and am miserable! I read posts on here where people "never cheat" or fast for days (how? That's amazing!) etc etc but back in my little world I have things that crop up like birthday celebrations, weddings and so on. Every time I even slightly indulge I feel terribly guilt ridden and it's horrible.

So my question is do any of you eat healthy food which does include some carb? I try to keep away from pasta, rice, bread (but eat low carb bread/ protein roll). I haven't eaten a banana since April or had a glass of fruit juice/fizzy drink or any breakfast cereal. Those restrictions I can cope with but forever? Never having rice with a curry? Never having the odd slice of pizza? Never eating a bit of cake?

I'm not talking mass carb overload here just the odd spoonful of rice or pasta now and again or the odd potato.

I am so glad i did the 800 cal blood sugar diet and also glad I have been low carb but please can I hear from those of you who aren't so obsessed with carbs like I've become?

I probably wont hear from anyone now as you're all so good! But thank you in advance.
 
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I think it is a matter of what a particular person's tolerance is. We all react differently and our differing personalities mean that some people react to their readings differently. It is such a personal thing. I intend to splurge on my birthday and at Christmas and even though my splurge may be different to other peoples' it will be a choice that I allow myself.
 
I suppose it depends how you define ‘cheat’. I recently said on another thread that I haven’t ‘cheated’ since diagnosis in May, it’s true but that doesn’t mean to say I haven’t eaten potato, chocolate, meringue to name a few seemingly cheats foods. I just mean that every day I have kept within my carb allowance that I’ve set myself (100g/day initially then after 6 weeks dropped to 50-70g/day). I have found for instance as a weekend treat after a low carb salad for dinner I can tolerate a meringue nest with strawberries and double cream. I often have this on a Friday evening and my blood sugar from before the meal to 2 hours after first bite shows a rise of around 0.5mmols/l. With a Sunday roast of mainly meat and veggies, such as cauliflower and broccoli, I can tolerate one small roast potato again showing a rise of around 0.5mmols/l. I have to say that since diagnosis I haven’t been to any eating situation where I didn’t have a degree of control over what I eat though. I have been to restaurants and picked carefully from menus, asking for salad instead of chips for instance. I’ve visited my parents who eat a traditional meat and two veg type diet so that’s been easy. My work place is probably the hardest, with people regularly bringing in cakes and biscuits, although they know I won’t eat them so don’t offer them to me now, I always have sugar free polos in my bag if I feel the urge to munch something while they tuck into cake, luckily I only work two days a week!
 

I've found that since finishing ND recently that I'm able to eat more carbs - although I'm still taking it carefully, one food at a time and testing with my meter before and one and two hours after eating.

Have you experimented with adding a few more carbs since you finished ND?
 
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Lowering carb consumption is a very important tool on managing T2 diabetes, however there is often a blurring of the boundaries between a low(er) carbohydrate high(er) fat diet diet and a very low carb, ketogenic diet
Lower carb covers anything under around 130g carbs a day, ketogenic is sometimes desribed as under 50g carbs but is more frequently described as being under 25g carbs
Whilst reducing the overall carb load is essential for all T2’s, all of us has a level of carbs that our bodies can handle and the only way to find out what it is is to test test test the impact of different foods
For myself, I think its better to establish your individual tolerance and then to stay close to that range rather than having”cheat” days
 
you shouldn't feel bad for loving carbs.....

its limiting the carbs that is the hard part for me.....even as a type one...
 
I started off aiming for lower carbs and ended up on ketogenic. I found that just having a little bit did not work for me. Not because of my bgls, ( although they did rise) but because I just wanted to eat more and more. A little bit just made me want to eat loads and it took ages for the craving to wear off.

Having said that, I do have carbs now and again. I sometimes have a national trust scone as a treat, and try and balance it out with a long walk!.

As everyone else has said, it really is a very personal choice. At the beginning I could not imagine a world where I did not eat carbs. Now I cannot imagine going back to how I was eating before. But that has a lot to do with wanting to escape the complications of t2d, particularly retinopathy.

You say that you think you are t2d. Have you had a test? Why do you think that? It maybe that you limiting yourself without need. Hopefully you will have good news.
 

Never say never @oh_dear_me

I am a low carber (around 30g on typical days - but not all days are typical) Rather than call having a favourite carb a "cheat", call it a "treat". I would never deprive myself at Christmas or other big celebrations, but I would restrict the portion sizes of any major carbs. I do have ice creams on holiday (no cone or flake of course), and I do have the odd small bag of crisps with my salad occasionally. I also have a piece of cake occasionally. I eat potatoes maybe 4 times a week, either chips, new boiled or roasted, but no more than 2 small ones. I am also known to have a piece of garlic bread or crusty roll from time to time when eating out. I've never liked rice, pasta or pizza so didn't need to give those up. I have recently started experimenting with a tablespoon of baked beans and find I can manage these now with a fry up - I couldn't when I first started. Treats can be looked forward to, and are a good thing.

You just need to be sensible, keep portions small, don't do it every day, and use your meter to tell you if you have overdone things. (although my meter gets locked away on Christmas Day and my birthday!) None of us are saints.

I also have no idea how people can fast all day or stick to the Newcastle Diet. I certainly couldn't. I do skip breakfasts other than a coffee with cream, but that is my limit.
 
I stopped lchf and have 100-150g carbs and stick to not high fat. I keep get reminders that my protein levels have to stay healthy. Need more at mo.
I'm still 9stones overweight but have lost 4st since xmas so working on it. But not lchf nor strict dieting. Just watching carbs and some fats. Dairy seems to cause me digestive distress now but didnt before so cheese is only very very rarely on my plate. Nuts too. The fat content was sabotaging my weight loss.
 
When I first started on this way of eating, I couldn't imagine doing this for the rest of my life. In fact, I was mourning the life I lost. Today, after two years plus of low-carbing, I feel very differently.

So, please don't put yourself under so much pressure. In my opinion, one of the most important aspect of this diet is that we can maintain it in the long run -- and if you constantly deny yourself foods you really would like to have, this can be very hard.

For example, when we go out to eat at our favorite tapas place, they serve really crispy baguette with aoili before the other food arrives. Sometimes, when I really miss bread, I take a morsel, just so that I don't feel deprived. Similarly, I might have half a regular cookie, or half a fig. This way, I don't feel I can never have this food again -- however most often I choose not to have it, though I could if I really wanted. Also remember -- it is not only about the number of carbs per 100g, but also about portion size.

You will probably find that the longer you are on a low carb diet, the less you will miss high-carb food. I used to "cheat" way more in the beginning. You will likely also find more and more alternatives to old favorites. For example, I found a way to make chocolate mousse with only about 1 to 2g of carbs per 100g. There are lots of great recipes posted on this forum.

As your body gets used to fat burning and your blood sugars become more level (no pronounced highs or lows), it also becomes much easier to skip meals as you just don't feel as hungry. I have never forced myself not to eat when I was seriously hungry.

So, maybe patience, experimentation and finding out what works best for you might be the way forward.
 

"Live Life Lustily" is my motto. In practise that means - try to do whats the right thing for me, but do it in a way that makes me happy - so now and again I go off the rails and I don't worry about it instead I try to find some activity that will help me offset things. Last night I gave in to some vegetable crisps ( I seem to be doing quite a bit of " giving in" at the moment ) so today I went for a jog and a swim to make up for it. I enjoyed both the crisps and the swim !
 
I eat cake (low carb, which is delicious)
https://www.brit.co/low-carb-cakes/
and you can get/make low carb pastries, brownies, cookies, etc. etc.
https://www.lowcarblab.com/best-low-carb-brownies/
https://healthylivinginbodyandmind.com/24-fathead-cheese-dough-recipes-low-carb-gluten-free/
https://www.ibreatheimhungry.com/2015/12/30-best-low-carb-cookie-recipes-gluten-free.html
There is low carb bread in about 50 different forms too.
https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/recipes/best-low-carb-bread-recipes

Most of them are a darn sight easier to make than the carby varieties.

I think there is a horrible phase that most of us go through when we first move into low carb. It is all about denial and deprivation and we worrit about all the things that we can't have.

But to be honest, that gets old fast. I've never been into martyrdom

My attitude is to trundle around exploring. Trying new things. Experimenting. I have found some AWESOME snacks, treats and daily snaffles that way - and it turns out that I prefer eating LCHigherF than any of the other ways of eating I have tried.

Didn't happen overnight (understatement!) but I now cheerfully embrace it.
It curls my toes in delight to think that I can eat fab cheeses, stupendous good quality breakfasts like scram eggs with smoked salmon, low carb cinnamon crunch muesli (nicer than Crunchy Nut Cornflakes), low carb porridge, coffee with cream... snacks like chorizo crisps or brie puffs (90 secs in microwave, and nicer than doritos any day!) deserts like choc mousse, fresh berries and cream, creme brulee. I think mashed cauliflower with a handful of cheese in it is FAR nicer than mashed potato, I have learned to mix wasabi, or smoked paprika, or garlic herbs into mayonnaise. I could go on all day, but I won't because I don't want to give the impression that I am totally obsessed with the deliciousness of LCHF food

Edited to add: and lets not forget Fathead pizza. That is nicer than the wheat variety too!

And just 2 weeks ago I learned to use one of those weird little autumnal squash things as a DELICIOUS replacement for a jacket potato. I want to eat those regularly.
 
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Have you heard the term "Eat to your Meter"?

That is what I used to determine what I could and couldn't eat; particularly when first diagnosed. If, after testing, the number was too high, I firstly considered how much I had eaten overall, then I'd consider cutting back, or cutting out whatever the carbs were in that meal.

Many T2s find their issues with carbs aren't straight across the board. Some find grains are like blood sugar rocket fuel, whilst others find theirs to be mainly potato based products, or fruit.

Eating to your meter, helps you understand a broad outline of where you are, and then, where necessary, finesse things into what you need to do for you.

People have different risk profiles, and some are quite happy to eat fairly "ordinarily", and have some pharmaceutical support to keep their blood sugars in check.

Who is right? Only the individual can decide how they want to live their lives, and where their amenability is to taking meds.

Of course, some people find themselves, for whatever reason needing, despite their very, very best efforts to take medication, and others find that they are unable or unwilling to manage their lifestyle in a way that could allow them to at least try going meds free.

It's all very complex, and I would urge you to note what people say, but if "their way" isn't for you, then consider your options and give your own way a try.

However, especially whilst adjusting your lifestyle it is important you test, test, test, and take in your personalised feedback.
 

Most of us "cheat" from time to time. Even that is a loaded term. My attitude is that, as long as the cumulative carb level over time is low enough to maintain BG control, then eating extra carbs is perfectly fine. It is not "cheating" at all, it is just part of the meal plan (or, in my case, often the drink plan).

There is even a metric tailored to this approach. It is called the HbA1C!!! Because it measures the average glycated hemoglobin for the past two to three months, it tells me exactly what I want to know.

So (and this is perhaps a bit controversial on this forum) I deliberately shunned "self-testing" and just pop into the clinic every three months for that A1C test.

This approach is not for everyone. It may mean that my instantaneous BG levels tested on a daily basis are "unacceptable" to many on this forum. I have done a lot of reading about T2D and it is still not clear to me whether this matters, i.e., whether big daily spikes put you at risk of diabetes complications even when A1C is totally controlled. (Even non-diabetics have BG spikes.)

Another reason it is not for everyone is that, with the big time lag of three months, anxiety can build up. This happened to me in the initial period after diagnosis but nowadays I am serene. I have my three-monthly A1C next week and I don't even care if it turns out to have increased, as long as it is still a safe level.

Edited to add: Strangely enough, though, I am not often tempted to "cheat." Apparently, the low-carb diet in itself lowers one's appetite for carbs. I am not the only one who has experienced this.

Whatever rocks your boat ... and keeps you healthy.
 
Oh wow so many wonderful replies! Thank you so so much! I will have a good read through them all
I know I can do this but you're all right...have to find my own way....and not get too hung up about the journey along the way. I think I've tried to be so "good" that it's starting to have the opposite effect on me and I am constantly thinking of going off the rails so to speak!
Right onwards and upwards as they say! And thank you for the recipes too! Xx
 
The problem with moderate carbs is that carbs are highly addictive for many of us T2D. And since it would trigger 2-3x the normal amount of insulin...moderation means we should be eating 2-3 times less...so using 75g glucose OGTT as a guide, most of us would be looking at 35g carbs or lower per meal...
 
I do love your posts (and those of the avocado lady!) I feel like you're the cool kids at school and I'm desperate to be in your in-crowd
 
@oh_dear_me carbs aren’t the devil incarnate. The problem lies in stripping away all the benefits of them during the heavy processing. If you ate 100g of broccoli and 100g of white bread and then did a finger prick test after 2 hrs you would see a big difference between the two. Both are carbs.
I was vegetables daily and I have been finding that 2 hours post prandial my blood glucose has been 2 points lower. Yesterday for example, before dinner of a chicken stir fry my bg was 4.4 2 hours later I got 4.2. That said, I have found that “healthy” brown rice raises my bg’s as much as white rice, therefore I avoid both. I can do 1/2 cup mashed potato and my bg rises but not nearly as much as it does with rice. I don’t drink fuzzies and avoid fruit juice as well. I drink water, green tea and coffee with 33% cream and no sweeteners.
I found that with just experimenting, cutting sugar and highly processed foods my numbers stabilized, meaning rarely a spike.
Some people will go cold turkey with carbs and then add according to their meter and some slowly cut them out until their bg’s get into the range they want. Everyone is different and they do what works for them.
I did a 7 day fast last week and I’m now keeping my carbs to under 25%/day I have found I can easily do this as I eat on a 16:8 schedule and never eat breakfast as I’m not hungry in the morning. My latest Hba1c was 6.1 6 months prior it was 6.4. Up until this recent test I watched what I ate to a certain degree but still indulged more than I should have. My Dr at the last visit on the advice of my diabetes dietician has started ordering blood tests every 3 months. I decided to do the fast then eat very low carb/keto high fat just to see how my test will be in December. One other thing, drink plenty of water!!
 
Hi @oh_dear_me
From looking at your profile you have done really well. From HbA1c 109 down to 52 in 4 months is really great. I also was not over weight when diagnosed but my BMI was about 24.8 so close to the line. I worked on diet, weight loss and exercise. I was given a meter and test strips that really helped. I wrote down everything I ate and quantities, weighing everything for about 4 or 5 months.I only cut the carbs that my body couldn't cope with. I aimed at eating 500 less calories than what I was burning (using a fitbit) and that worked for me.With testing I had to cut out breakfast cereal, even the nurse agreed looking at my figures that had to go and she was the one who told me Weetabix was good for me. It took me 6 months to get my HbA1c down to normal and by then my BMI was 19.6. My GP was concerned that I was malnourished and told me to put weight on which I did. I don;t count either cals or carbs now but do test and try to be careful. I don't want to put on any more weight. I do a lot of walking and find that helps me. If I did have a spike after a meal I know a gentle 20 mins walk will get it down.
Best wishes for what you decide as only you can see what will work for you. We are all different.
 
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