Dave Feldman's "CholesterolJoe" experiment

ianf0ster

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Dave says:
Big thanks to @shawnbaker1967 for his mention of our work on
@joerogan
. #LEM/#LMHR/#LMHRstudy It has inspired me to go ahead with my most ambitious experiment yet... Demonstrating realtime LDL changes against a random number generator -- in this case, I'll be using the JRE podcast itself as the source of the randomness. (The #CholesterolJoe Experiment) For details on the experiment, watch this video


However, I’ve long wanted to provide a demonstration of rapid cholesterol changes in realtime.

From my various prior n = 1 experiments over the years, and those of others, I’ve gained insight into how to manipulate my lipids. Now, I want to use what I’ve learned, to perform a first-of-its kind realtime demonstration in which I manipulate my lipids levels – massively – through dietary changes to target numbers through various techniques informed by the LEM.

CholesterolJoeRules-1024x576.jpg

Methodology​

The rules are simple: I will endeavor to manipulate my LDL-C between 75 and 300 mg/dl using a special pseudo-random number generator…

1. Random Number Assignment Phase​

For my “random number generator,” I’ll be using the Joe Rogan Experience podcast, beginning with today’s episode (which isn’t released, as of this writing).

Starting from the beginning of the podcast, once Joe or his guest(s) say a number that is between 75 and 300 and at least 60 mg/dl from my current LDL-C, that will lock in the new “Target LDL-C“.

(*In the unlikely event an episode happens to not have any mention of a number that qualifies, I will hold to the next episode)

2. Target LDL-C Challenge​

Once a Target LDL-C has been established, I have 10 days to change the LDL-C levels in my blood to within 30 mg/dL of the target, as confirmed by external LabCorp lipid testing.

I plan on completing a total of four cycles, back-to-back, to demonstrate these changes.

Social Media Commentary and Hypothesis​

Throughout the experiment, I’ll be giving running commentary across social media in realtime.

I’ll be reacting to the new Target LDL-C, sharing my strategies for achieving it, and giving daily metrics (as determined by at home CardioChek+) to share as the experiment progresses.

You can follow along on X/Twitter, YouTube, and Instagram.
 

jjraak

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Interesting experiment.

My personal lipids looked shot to hell when I got my head around checking out what they were and what each should have been ideally :wideyed:

But that took me 6 months of lchf dieting to do.

To affect any of those measures, AND do so in days, sounds very impressive.
 

SimonP78

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Is there any detail on what approaches he will be taking to achieve this? I note he says he'll be telling followers as the time period progresses, but wondered if there was an overview somewhere?
 

ianf0ster

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He has previously done over 100 'experiments' in changing his LDL, from its naturally (high) level on his LCHF way of Eating to quite a bit lower.
He did this just before several Low Carb conferences in order to show how easy it is to manipulate. The famous 'Dave Feldman Protocol' has also been used for spoofing LDL by many of his online followers.
I tried it once, but it didn't seem to do much for me - I may have made a mistake in it, but have not been concerned/interested enough to try doing it again.

Please note that this is happening in parallel with the Oreo vs Statin n=1 crossover study by Nick Norwitz.
He already has completed the first part - the Oreo par, which is eating 12 Oreo biscuits per day in addition to his normal LCHF diet in order to lower his LDL from what it was (high) at the start of the study. After a wash -through period he will then repeat but using a Statin (rather than carbs) in order to reduce his LDL. In the Low Carb community, they are betting that the biscuits will be more effective than the statin - but we will see!
 

SimonP78

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Interesting, I'd never heard of it. Is the premise that high carbs equals low cholesterol or is it just that some carbs reduces it from what it would be when eating a low carb diet? I'll do some Googling, thanks.
 

ianf0ster

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More from Nick Norwitz on the Oreo cookie vs Statin experiment

The premise is only about those who go on a Low Carb/Keto way of eating (for T2 Diabetes, weight Loss or whatever other reason) and experience a rise in LDL (as well as the usual rise in HDL and drop in Triglycerides). Mostly they are slim athletic or TOFI (Thin Outside Fat Inside) like me.

Note that for overweight T2D's it's normal for a Low Carb way of eating either to reduce LDL or make almost no difference to it.
 

OrsonKartt

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More from Nick Norwitz on the Oreo cookie vs Statin experiment

The premise is only about those who go on a Low Carb/Keto way of eating (for T2 Diabetes, weight Loss or whatever other reason) and experience a rise in LDL (as well as the usual rise in HDL and drop in Triglycerides). Mostly they are slim athletic or TOFI (Thin Outside Fat Inside) like me.

Note that for overweight T2D's it's normal for a Low Carb way of eating either to reduce LDL or make almost no difference to it.

I’m a skinny type 2 with higher cholesterol since going keto. Gotta love this kind of experiment!
 

ianf0ster

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Tweet from Dave Feldman with video explaining his Hypothesis using analogy and layman's terms:


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– A Simple Analogy to Explain High #ApoB/#LDL ...and Why #LMHR May Be Different –
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Please RT
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✅
It's just 8 min, and layperson friendly -- watch it now
✅
It drills into the key mechanism of relevance: successful vs failed delivery
✅
Why modern science may be commonly looking at it backward (and why it's easy to miss)
✅
How the #LMHR could explain this – and why it could potentially change how we see #ApoB & #LDL #Cholesterol in the context of risk
⚠️
It should go without saying this video is intentionally simplified. For the full #LEM paper, see http://doi.org/10.3390/metabo12050460… (and be sure to follow
@nicknorwitz
, ofc)
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I put a tremendous level of work into this one (much more than I intended), but I wanted it ready before this weekend and the coming match analysis from our #LMHRstudy ( https://citizensciencefoundation.org/dr-budoff-to-present-matched-cohort-analysis-at-wcirdcd-conference/… )









7:40




3:16 PM · Dec 6, 2023
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ianf0ster

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Latest video on Cholesterol and Low Carb from Nick Norwitz :

Notes:
1. This meta analysis really is low carb i.e. , 130gms carbs per day.
2. 'Lean' in this case means up to BMI 25 i.e. not overweight. Personally this would put me in the 'lean' category. Previously I had always thought that lean meant lower than normal BNI - say a BMI below 20 or 21.
 
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Antje77

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Latest video on Cholesterol and Low Carb from Nick Norwitz :

Notes:
1. This meta analysis really is low carb i.e. , 130gms carbs per day.
2. 'Lean' in this case means up to BMI 25 i.e. not overweight. Personally this would put me in the 'lean' category. Previously I had always thought that lean meant lower than normal BNI - say a BMI below 20 or 21.
How interesting! Fits right in with my N=1 too. BMI of around 35, LDL decreased.
Linking the study in the video for the ones who do better with the written word: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002916524000091

This is what happened to my LDL since I was first diagnosed and started eating lower carb. Weight has been stable +/- some 4 kg during this time. Ignore the first initial drop, that was a short stint on a statin.

1705512046199.png
 

shelley262

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Latest video on Cholesterol and Low Carb from Nick Norwitz :

Notes:
1. This meta analysis really is low carb i.e. , 130gms carbs per day.
2. 'Lean' in this case means up to BMI 25 i.e. not overweight. Personally this would put me in the 'lean' category. Previously I had always thought that lean meant lower than normal BNI - say a BMI below 20 or 21.
Thank you for this just watched it and it is exactly my experience with a lowish BMI (21) high LdL high hdl and low trigs. Reassuring for me that my response is typical for my bmi and has remained this way for last 7 years with a few minor variations as I am statin intolerant.
 
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Beating-My-Betes

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From one perspective it seems like the Oreo experiment may have proved the power of plant-foods (even hyper-processed ones) in lowering cholesterol. More than that, it may also have provided yet another 'nail in the coffin' for the CIM of obesity (and diabetes)
 

Beating-My-Betes

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One thing I'm curious about when it comes to the war against statins is whether there’s any consideration given to it’s plaque stabilisation qualities. Even if the effects of other protocols could be just as or more effective in lowering cholesterol levels than statins, wouldn't these secondary effects still be an argument for taking them?
 

Outlier

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It depends what the body does with its plaque on its own or with statins or with non-statins. That's a query that gets sidestepped - it's entirely possible that for the sake of avoiding something that may or may not be "bad" for us, we end up with a situation that is worse.

I am very fortunate in that my arteries are clear, yet my GP wants me on statins. I'm not going to be a guinea pig for fixing something that ain't broke. My choice, and others are at liberty to choose differently. Knowledge is power.
 

Beating-My-Betes

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It depends what the body does with its plaque on its own or with statins or with non-statins. That's a query that gets sidestepped - it's entirely possible that for the sake of avoiding something that may or may not be "bad" for us, we end up with a situation that is worse.

I am very fortunate in that my arteries are clear, yet my GP wants me on statins. I'm not going to be a guinea pig for fixing something that ain't broke. My choice, and others are at liberty to choose differently. Knowledge is power.
Knowledge refers to facts i.e truth, yet it seems you are not very sure about the issue of stabilisation.
 

ianf0ster

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Knowledge does not mean certainty, in fact knowledge often means uncertainty. Certainty is often due to ignorance.
Truth in science tends to be transitory. Newtonian Physics was accepted as completely true until Relativity was proved.
Now it's only true under most conditions.
 

Outlier

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I have commented before on yesterday's "scientific truth" being today's "we used to think". And pretty near everyone has come across "science" that goes directly against their own lived experience. Fascinating stuff and well worth discussion and sharing.
 
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