Defatizing with Herbalife by Kenny

How are you doing today? ::reading with interest::

Is it not to keep to low FAT as well :?:
Hence the No dairy products (even full skimmed milk!)

Have you tried mixing it with water ?

I have never used Herbalife I keep thinking Sage & onion milkshake :?

Cant you get hold of some slimfast ? or other replacement

Told if you eat something 40 times you then like it

Bob

Kenny how you doing today ?

Bob

OH MY GOD HERBALIFE KILLED KENNY

Ho, ho.

I see Patch is doing something similar; this sounds very unpleasant and I know Kenny that you are taking this very seriously and really want to sort out your diabetes, but I think with all respect this isn't really the way to do it; the way to do it surely must be to drop as much carbohydrate from your diet as is possible. That then becomes a sustainable diet which this stuff surely isn't - the reasons that this would improve your control has nothing to do with the fat, it is because on 600 calories you are severely restricting all nutrients including the big bad carbs.

Why not just cut to the chase and ditch the carbs and have a manageable, tasty diet?

Best

Dillinger

This is certainly not a sustainable diet - it is temporary, with potential benefits for the diabetic.

I'm hoping to get as much fat out from around my liver and pancreas to enable them to communicate and work better.

That means when I do go back to lo-carbing, my organs aren't pumping out insulin/glucogen and working against me.

One thing that concerns me, is whether the benefit comes from reducing calories, or reducing the actual volume of food one is taking in. 200mlx3 is not a great deal of food...

I wonder if eating 600 - 800 calories of solid food (in varying volumes) would give the same effect?

I wonder if, by shrinking the stomach (because the sttomach will shrink on only 600ml of "food" per day) AND reducing the amount of fat surrounding the organs, we somehow restore our organs abilty to function properly. I also wonder about the hormone response in the stomach when it has shrunk.

Dillinger said:

I think with all respect this isn't really the way to do it; the way to do it surely must be to drop as much carbohydrate from your diet as is possible. That then becomes a sustainable diet which this stuff surely isn't

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I think everyone agrees that it's brave, stupid and bit dangerous, but it's not supposed to be sustainable. It's an 8 week "system reboot" that gets rid of all the fat from your pancreas and liver and (according to the Newcastle study) "cures" your diabetes.

Patch and Kenny are brave warriors / sucidal human guinea pigs. I'm thinking of joining them - I have a weeks worth of Optislim in the post, but I'm worried about spoiling my HbA1C with 20g of carbs per shake.

In the unlikely event that Patch is still alive next week, I'll probably start too.

The stomach does not actually shrink once your an adult it does however kind of reset the your appetite when on such an extreme diet. Hence the reason people think the stomach shrinks.

Yet the Cambridge is even lower at 400kcal

This one as per study is 800Kcal inc the allowed Veg Just need the will power with the bland diet
You can see why a few dropped out of the Org study

bowell said:

You can see why a few dropped out of the Org study

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That's because they weren't:

borofergie said:

brave warriors / sucidal human guinea pigs

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:x

Kenny,
You may have turned the corner. The toxins stored in the fat are just HORRIBLE when they're making their exit. I had 2 days like you did when I first did Atkins a ways back.. Horrible feeling. Good job you pressed through and you were right to move to a little something to pick you back up in the porridge.

But the further you move away from pure liquid and this particular diet the more chance there is that you can't expect the results they got. There is a reason for the 'shakes approach'. It doesn't sound like you're going TOO far out of the zone -- but remember vegetables are carbs. And as soon as you add cheese you're adding back in some fat -- so you're more like doing just a simple 'very low carb diet'. Since the 'fat we eat' doesn't get stored on our bellies as is incorrectly believed my millions -- adding back in some fat for satiety's sake will certainly help you feel fuller. The other thing I'm worried about is protein. As you are very lo carbing or doing any harsh diet -- the body starts to break down muscle in the absence of sufficient protein. In the induction phase of Atkins they require you to up the protein to prevent this from happening. The Herbalife/Optifast shakes are FULL of protein and for good reason. It's the ONLY WAY a liquid diet based on shakes actually can work and not have you 'starve to death'. So the problem with moving away from the shakes is first and foremost a lack of protein which you're not getting much of from the veggie's you mention. A little -- but not enough. If you're going to keep going this route -- and allowing dairy make sure you drink 'soy' which is a good supply of protein. It's also probably why your body was more okay mixing the Herbalife shakes with Soy. You needed even MORE protein and your body was craving it. We 'crave' what our body needs. The problem is we can 'stoke' the body too much toward refined carbs and that's the trap. But your body asking for protein is often muscle aches and fatigue. Low carb can also create fatique.

Hang in there -- sound like your diet is turning into more like a basic Atkins or Bernstein just without the meat. I know several 'very low carbers' that are vegan/vegetarian and they eat just like you are doing now.

I still keep thinking though that the results this study got was only when it was followed to a tee. I hope I'm wrong for your sake. And in ANY event - what you're doing now will make HUUUUGE improvements to your overall health, weight, etc... Just remember that really putting D into remission or 'kicking its butt' and reversing it - requires being 'all the way back' to your normal weight for your size. That's not likely gonna happen in 8 weeks. Even with the pancreas and liver 'defatized' to use my invented word.. the pancreas will still be pumpin' out WAAAY to much insulin to compensate for the fat around your belly and will eventually kill more beta cells and you could right back where you started. So think 'bigger picture' than this 8 weeks. Think about a 'new lifestyle' all together. That's the only thing that worked for me. I had to 'live differently' for the rest of my life - in my thinking or no long term success. Not that I could cheat - and I do several times a week -- but -- my D is in full control.

The only thing in the end -- that matters with D is the balance between getting NO complications and having an 'eating life' you can MAINTAIN for the rest of your life. It's a delicate balance -- but that IS the end game.

NewDestinyX said:

Herbalife/Optifast shakes are FULL of protein and for good reason. It's the ONLY WAY a liquid diet based on shakes actually can work and not have you 'starve to death'.

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Is there a reason that this "Shake Diet" approach wouldn't work using Protein Powder (the kind body builders use)? I've hasd some before that was only 1.2g carbs per serving, compared with Optislims 21g per serving.

If it's the protein that stops th ebody going into starvation mode, could I do the shake diet with 1.2g per serving Protein Powder? (I'd expect to go right into ketosis on 3.6g of carbs per day!!!)

Patch, If you're doing this diet then shouldn't you do it as the study did it?
At least the diet shakes have a complement of vits and minerals. You're already stressing the body by reducing your calories to minimal levels at least try to provide it with some nutrition.
The carb/protein/fat balance of the study was what it was, it worked for those subjects. An optifast shake contains 14g of protein, 20g carb and 3 g fat. ( so proportions 35% protein, 50% carb , 15% fat) If you change it then you're doing your own thing! It maybe the proportions are important*
I noted that you said you weren't having the veggies yet either. Is there a reason for this? I would have thought that you would need them for the roughage alone (and the vits/minerals)
Please take care though,I know that you've read the warnings about medical supervision
*( now this next bit is just personal interpretation and might be controversial : note that in the original after the first week when they rose free fatty acids (NEFA) gradually fell in this study and continued to fall after the diet. There are lots of researchers that think that these fatty acids play a big part in insulin resistance. In contrast there is a study that shows this did not happen on a diet of (< or =20 g/d of carbs)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20107198

I agree with you phoenix - I'm just asking the question. I don't like the idea of eating 60g+ per day of carbs.

But you're right - I'll be replicating the study as closely as I can.

Kenny - you've lost 5kg in 7 days?!?

You da man!!!