"Defatizing............"

[Patch]

Because I'm a big boy. I'll tailor the program to MY needs, and adjust according to MY results. I don't need to be told what to do - I'm taking full responsibility for my disease and it's treatment.

If this doesn't work, I'll try something else. I won't be waiting for my diabetic check up every six months to change my treatment (trial and error) until THEY suggest something that works.

I've taken responsibility for it myself.

 

[borofergie]

So how come then Patch and Kenny aren't following it?

Beacause OptiFast is only sold through clinics. We analysed the ingredients and compared it to OptiSlim (which is a similar, but publically available, meal replacement product), and concluded that the ingredients are very similar.

Bowell has diet sheets from the same Newcastle group that describe a similar 800kcal diet in detail
Patch is following the diet, and so am I, using OptiSlim.

Kenny is taking his own route, but then he's a big boy.

 

[borofergie]

Because I'm a big boy. I'll tailor the program to MY needs, and adjust according to MY results. I don't need to be told what to do - I'm taking full responsibility for my disease and it's treatment.

All of us are Big Boys. That's how we caught the old diabetes in the first place. :wink:

 

[Patch]

Nah - you got it all wrong, mate! Getting the old diabetes is what MADE us big boys in the first place!!! :lol:

 

[Albert]

I know I've not been around here very long, but I thought that Patch at least was an experienced diabetic. As are the ones that follow the low carb and say how good it is and how it's the way to go; and the ones who don't follow low carb and say how good it is and how it's the way to go. Surely that's part of a forum like this, there are opposing views all over the place; views being just what they are. If any noobie came on here and looked at the first thread and thought that was it everyone would be following what Ken and Sue (?) set up in their information for noobies, but I bet that not everyone does.

MTT

Actually Patch is very experienced but not well controlled. I recall he also was a follower of another strange idea - drink diluted TCP! Despite all the evidence from the manufacturers that no one should ever attempt such a thing.

There will always be those who seek a magic bullet to 'cure' diabetes, every forum has them. Basically you need willpower and motivation. Not fads and snake oil! As for Ken & Sues info, that is just two former monitors take on things that is designed to help people. This and the other threads doesn't help anybody but is just a vehicle for some oddball ideas which lower the standards this forum once had.

 

[Kenny]

Actually Patch is very experienced but not well controlled. I recall he also was a follower of another strange idea - drink diluted TCP!

That is hilarious.

 

[borofergie]

Actually Patch is very experienced but not well controlled. I recall he also was a follower of another strange idea - drink diluted TCP! Despite all the evidence from the manufacturers that no one should ever attempt such a thing.

In your judgement perhaps. Although I don't see what that has to do with anything. I have great control, and I'm on the diet. Patch corresponds to the original studies HbA1C critera much better than me.

And frankly, it isn't any of your business:

It is and never has been anyone's business how members control their diabetes, we as members are only here to advise and offer support......nothing more and nothing less, so with this in mind I do hope that the Admin and the Forum Moderators will keep an eye on such tactics and take appropriate action where necessary.

 

[bowell]

jopar
but ignored advise that the product is used to replace 2 meals not all meals in a 24 hour period.

Low Calorie Diet Programme
Its three liquid meal drinks per day plus 200kcal veg


The menu below

(800 calories per day

Meal replacement with Optifast (3 sachets each day) – this provides a total of 600 calories and
the necessary daily vitamins and mineral requirements

Eat up to 3 portions of non-starchy vegetables each day (total of 250g each day) (for fibre
content) – this will provide another 200 calories

Drink - 3 litre of water or calorie-free beverages each day

Menu pdf to down load
http://www.ncl.ac.uk/magres/assets/documents/StudyRecipes.pdf

 

[ClaireG 06]

Can we at least try and keep it friendly please. As i've previously stated different people have different views and ideas and we need to respect those. Thank You.

 

[jopar]

Patch

That's a bit daft... You started the diet because of the results of Dr Taylor research so if you are changing it to suit and you haven't got the bloods etc to determine if you need more of one nutrient than another etc... If it fails how will you know that it didn't work because Dr Taylor is wrong or whether where you faffed around with the diet too much!

Two things that I do know concerning about diabetes, both carbs and calories both count both have the ability to bite you on the backside one way or another..

So every individual got to work out best carb allowance and a total calorie content of their diet to achieve both good diabetic control and mainatin an health weight..

Get these out then you fail in the control stake, also fail to maintain an healthy weight and may need more medication either oral or insulin to achieve poor results..

This is where extreme low carbing can fail, yep you may find it easier to maintain a stable blood glucose, but you fail to either reach or maintain a healthy weight purely because the calories you are consumming still out wiegh's the calories your body burns of in a day.. Excess of 500 calories=1lb of fat..

You've got to get the balance right

 

[bowell]

Thats odd Bob, no mention of big mac and chips a large toberlorone and two large baked potatoes anywhere Image

Like I keep saying quick fixes never work

Dont know i have not started it yet,, But my GP thinks it will help ?
Rid me of the wheelchair belly

I dont like big macs

Im more a fish un chips man

[youtube]dvyDWGF290M[/youtube]

 

[Albert]

Actually Patch is very experienced but not well controlled. I recall he also was a follower of another strange idea - drink diluted TCP! Despite all the evidence from the manufacturers that no one should ever attempt such a thing.

In your judgement perhaps. Although I don't see what that has to do with anything. I have great control, and I'm on the diet. Patch corresponds to the original studies HbA1C critera much better than me.

And frankly, it isn't any of your business:

Oooooh! Flying toys and a pram comes to mind.

If you hadn't noticed, its a discussion forum. I wasn't aware it is a private discussion? I answered a point made by somebody else, do you have a problem with that? I didn't realise I needed your permission to post here! Sounds. Like the thought police to me!

 

[borofergie]

You started the diet because of the results of Dr Taylor research so if you are changing it to suit and you haven't got the bloods etc to determine if you need more of one nutrient than another etc... If it fails how will you know that it didn't work because Dr Taylor is wrong or whether where you faffed around with the diet too much!

Not at all:

At WebMD Dr Taylor is quoted as saying...

"We used the 600-calorie diet to test a hypothesis. What I can tell you definitively is that if people lose substantial weight by normal means, they will lose their diabetes," says study head Roy Taylor,MD, director of the Newcastle Magnetic Resonance Centre at Newcastle University in England.

Source... http://diabetes.webmd.com/news/20110624/very-low-calorie-diet-may-reverse-diabetes

I asked Professor Taylor office and he recommended that if exercising hard every day (eg 1 hour gym, Pliates etc) ...all under supervision, then could increase calorie intake from vegetables from 200 to 600 calories.NB this was general advice..and not tailored to me specifically.
From what I understand it is as important to get direct raw veg fibre (or even cooked from soups etc)....the web site gives some soup suggestions etc.

The shakes are nutritionally complete. That's why we are using them.

This is where extreme low carbing can fail, yep you may find it easier to maintain a stable blood glucose, but you fail to either reach or maintain a healthy weight purely because the calories you are consumming still out wiegh's the calories your body burns of in a day.. Excess of 500 calories=1lb of fat..

Actually, I think the accepted number is 3500 calories, not 500. I don't hear of many people that put on weight on low-carb diets.

 

[borofergie]

Sounds. Like the thought police to me!

Yes. Because me arguing against the request to delete this Thread is "Thought Policing" and "Pro-Censorship".

But like all intelligent discussions, it helps if you stick to the rules of the debate.

 

[benedict]

Sorry, this thread seems to just be bickering now and will be locked to keep things manageable.

If the bickering moves to another thread on the same subject, posts may be deleted.

If you have an issue with this move, please PM and I'll try to answer in due course.

Sorry to do this.