Defining Pre Diabetes

[Captain Glucose]

Hi all,

I’m confused about this blood sugar lark.

In case you don't know, I’m a slim 34 year old guy who has been having some diabetes type symptoms on and off for the last few years. Doctor told me there was no issue. My fasting test was 4.4 and my Hba1c is normal (whatever that means?)

Because I’ve been feeling like cr*p, I took it upon myself to buy a monitor and have found big fluctuations in my blood sugars after breakfast,

Some members on this forum advised me that I should experiment with portion size and I got the following results:


Thursday: Ate 75g oats in water with some nuts and seeds. Went from 4.5 fasting to 10 at hour 1 and 7.7 at hour 2. Some impressive jumps there, like the glucose Olympics.

Friday: Ate a “recommended” on the box serving of 50g Oats with nuts and seeds and went from 4.8 to 9.5, dropping to 6.3 at hour 2.

Saturday: Mixed 30g oats with yoghurt and got a spike of only 6.3 at one hour. Happy days.

Sunday: 2 slices wholemeal toast (50g). Jumped form 4.5 to 8.1, then walked for ½ hour and got to 5.0. Exercise helped a lot. Purchased mister motivator dvd.


Much of what I’ve read, including on the website bloodtest101 recommended by Brunneria, leads me to believe I’m pre diabetic, specifically because it says although non diabetics spike, they don’t go beyond about 7.8mmol (140) and that if you do it suggests a sluggish 1st phase insulin response typical of pre diabetes.

I assume when they quote these figures they are referring to a test subject who was eating a “recommended” serving, such as my 50g oats. It also doesn’t mention whether they walked anywhere after eating their meal, which for me affects my blood sugar a lot.

If a non diabetic shoveled 200g of oats down their neck would their levels still never go over 7.8? Surely anyone, regardless of their metabolism couldn't process large qualities like that back down to fasting levels in 2 hours?

I feel like I’m becoming the carb police.Like an irritating nutritionist forcing friends and family to fill their refrigerators with vegetables and lean cuts of meat. My wife is patient and understanding but I can't shake the feeling of anger that the tests I was given didn't allow me to address this earlier when I started having symptoms.

Surely a glucose tolerance test has far more diagnostic value in detecting the symptoms of early insulin resistance than a spot check or an average??

 

[Squire Fulwood]

Surely a glucose tolerance test has far more diagnostic value in detecting the symptoms of early insulin resistance than a spot check or an average??

Off you go then.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glucose_tolerance_test

 

[Captain Glucose]

Off you go then.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glucose_tolerance_test

Quite right,

And I will too.

I'm realising that sometimes it's pertinent to question the official response you're fed and listen to your body. If I hadn't done that already I'd have no idea that I was rocking high blood sugar levels after meals.

 

[Lamont D]

Some members on this forum advised me that I should experiment with portion size and I got the following results:


Thursday: Ate 75g oats in water with some nuts and seeds. Went from 4.5 fasting to 10 at hour 1 and 7.7 at hour 2. Some impressive jumps there, like the glucose Olympics.

Much of what I’ve read, including on the website bloodtest101 recommended by Brunneria, leads me to believe I’m pre diabetic, specifically because it says although non diabetics spike, they don’t go beyond about 7.8mmol (140) and that if you do it suggests a sluggish 1st phase insulin response typical of pre diabetes.

I assume when they quote these figures they are referring to a test subject who was eating a “recommended” serving, such as my 50g

If a non diabetic shoveled 200g of oats down their neck would their levels still never go over 7.8? Surely anyone, regardless of their metabolism couldn't process large qualities like that back down to fasting levels in 2 hours?


Surely a glucose tolerance test has far more diagnostic value in detecting the symptoms of early insulin resistance than a spot check or an average??[/QUOTE]

Yes you should always have portion size in mind!
Mind you, a treat,should be a part of what you eat!

We are all different and we have to find our own limits!
You are trying to be a part of a group whose symptoms and treatments are unique and we have to muddle through it to get control.

I am non diabetic! If I ate that amount of carbs, I would be ill!
My blood glucoses levels would be through the roof, so would anybody who has an insulin imbalance. A normal blood glucose response, would act 'normal'

As some who has had numerous glucose tests! You would get the finger results but not the plasma glucose or other results that only labs could process and doctors would interpret.
Would it be a two hour test or 5 hours?
Do you want to try all the other tests carried out on patients?
How about a fasting test, to see what happens over a period of time, say 2, 3 or 4 days. To see if you have normal response to fasting?

Yes, keep an eye on your health and if you still have the symptoms, go and see your doctor.

But in my opinion, you may be prediabetic, but only just!

 

[Captain Glucose]

Thanks nosher,

When you say you are non diabetic, are you prediabetic?

I was thinking of paying for a proper 2 hour test, with readings at 1 hour and 2 hours to ascertain the 1st and 2nd phase insulin response. I could do an approximation of this myself at home but would probably balls it up somehow.

Can I ask, what sort of diet you have had success with? There seem to be many advocates of low carbing, whether you're increasing proteins or fats or both. I have been trying this but had trouble getting enough food into me to feel like I'm not flagging a few hours after eating. My blood sugar after lunch is around 6.5 but by teatime its around 3.8. I feel a bit like an addict going cold turkey.

 

[AndBreathe]

Thanks nosher,

When you say you are non diabetic, are you prediabetic?

I was thinking of paying for a proper 2 hour test, with readings at 1 hour and 2 hours to ascertain the 1st and 2nd phase insulin response. I could do an approximation of this myself at home but would probably balls it up somehow.

Can I ask, what sort of diet you have had success with? There seem to be many advocates of low carbing, whether you're increasing proteins or fats or both. I have been trying this but had trouble getting enough food into me to feel like I'm not flagging a few hours after eating. My blood sugar after lunch is around 6.5 but by teatime its around 3.8. I feel a bit like an addict going cold turkey.

Captain Glucose - You seem very keen to be diabetic, which is something the rest of us have been very keen not to be!

One of the things you may or may not have grasped is that the main symptoms of diabetes; i.e. raised blood sugars, are pretty fundamental and clear. Some of the other signs are not necessarily diabetes symptoms. Fatigue, urinary frequency and so on can be signs to many, many conditions, or just to the person being a bit generally off colour, and maybe needing s holiday.

Prudently, your doctor has done some bloods, the results of which not not indicate diabetes. Your testing doesn't appear to being conducted at the most scientific level, then we have your imaginary hypothesis about the short, sharp rise on stress.

Can I suggest you concentrate your mind on living healthily; watching what you eat, keeping trim and exercising if you can, and having some further bloods at a point in the future. Diabetes isn't something that'll eventually happen if you test enough.

I think you should just be happy that at this stage that you aren't diabetic. Just as stress can nudge our sugars up, so can it make us feel tired, more sensitive to our bladder activity and so on. There's more to life than a diabetic diagnosis. Honestly, there is.

 

[Lamont D]

Thanks nosher,

When you say you are non diabetic, are you prediabetic?

I was thinking of paying for a proper 2 hour test, with readings at 1 hour and 2 hours to ascertain the 1st and 2nd phase insulin response. I could do an approximation of this myself at home but would probably balls it up somehow.

Can I ask, what sort of diet you have had success with? There seem to be many advocates of low carbing, whether you're increasing proteins or fats or both. I have been trying this but had trouble getting enough food into me to feel like I'm not flagging a few hours after eating. My blood sugar after lunch is around 6.5 but by teatime its around 3.8. I feel a bit like an addict going cold turkey.

As I said I'm not diabetic, I'm weird! If you read my info, I have a blood glucose insulin imbalance.

No the test you are saying is fine for what you are looking at!
You need to be taking a fasting level. Then make sure you have the right amount of glucose, you need to drink. Then test every half hour, till your satisfaction.
I need a five hour test, to see what is happening, as I said I'm weird!

I am on a very, very, low carb lifestyle. It's not a diet for me, as I have to eat like this for the rest of my life.

You may have the symptoms but your readings are fine!

If you are interested in my condition, read my info, then read my blog, called 'a reactionary'
Then read about RH in the ' Ask a question' forum.

 

[Captain Glucose]

Captain Glucose - You seem very keen to be diabetic, which is something the rest of us have been very keen not to be!

One of the things you may or may not have grasped is that the main symptoms of diabetes; i.e. raised blood sugars, are pretty fundamental and clear. Some of the other signs are not necessarily diabetes symptoms. Fatigue, urinary frequency and so on can be signs to many, many conditions, or just to the person being a bit generally off colour, and maybe needing s holiday.

Prudently, your doctor has done some bloods, the results of which not not indicate diabetes. Your testing doesn't appear to being conducted at the most scientific level, then we have your imaginary hypothesis about the short, sharp rise on stress.

Can I suggest you concentrate your mind on living healthily; watching what you eat, keeping trim and exercising if you can, and having some further bloods at a point in the future. Diabetes isn't something that'll eventually happen if you test enough.

I think you should just be happy that at this stage that you aren't diabetic. Just as stress can nudge our sugars up, so can it make us feel tired, more sensitive to our bladder activity and so on. There's more to life than a diabetic diagnosis. Honestly, there is.

AndBreathe,

Thanks for your candor, I appreciate it.

My anxiety probably stems from an overload of conflicting information that suggests any deviation from the so called normal range of post postprandial levels is cause for concern. From viewing these forums it suggests to me that there are many others in the same boat trying to make some sense of things and avoid unnecessary complications down the line from not having acted early enough.

Until a chance testing of my blood sugar which occurred following a chat with a diabetic neighbour, this had not even crossed my mind. But then, I've read plenty of times that by the time significant symptoms manifest that the condition is well on its way.

If nothing else, it has been a wake up call for me to live more healthily. Far from wanting to be diabetic, I am seeking to utilize the excellent collective knowledge on these forums to best ensure my future health. i feel that once I'm in receipt of the correct knowledge I can put it into practice in a way that becomes a natural part of life rather than an unhealthy preoccupation.

 

[AndBreathe]

AndBreathe,

Thanks for your candor, I appreciate it.

My anxiety probably stems from an overload of conflicting information that suggests any deviation from the so called normal range of post postprandial levels is cause for concern. From viewing these forums it suggests to me that there are many others in the same boat trying to make some sense of things and avoid unnecessary complications down the line from not having acted early enough.

Until a chance testing of my blood sugar which occurred following a chat with a diabetic neighbour, this had not even crossed my mind. But then, I've read plenty of times that by the time significant symptoms manifest that the condition is well on its way.

If nothing else, it has been a wake up call for me to live more healthily. Far from wanting to be diabetic, I am seeking to utilize the excellent collective knowledge on these forums to best ensure my future health. i feel that once I'm in receipt of the correct knowledge I can put it into practice in a way that becomes a natural part of life rather than an unhealthy preoccupation.

A chance testing? What happened; did you fall on a lancet and the test strip was the only thing available to mop up the blood?

I think you're had great information and advice, including from your doctor, who has far more information about you than we will ever have.

 

[Captain Glucose]

A chance testing? What happened; did you fall on a lancet and the test strip was the only thing available to mop up the blood?

I think you're had great information and advice, including from your doctor, who has far more information about you than we will ever have.

During a conversation with my diabetic neighbor, I mentioned that I had been feeling fatigued and having tingling in my feet and hands. On his suggestion he took my blood sugar which registered 10mmol and he advised me to see my to see my doctor about it, which I did.

My hypothesis about stress may be imaginary but you then indicated that there is a clear link, which to me suggests that I may be affecting my readings.This is the kind of information that I'm looking for to alleviate what you've indicated is unnecessary concern, hence why I'm on the forum.

From the tone of your response it seems that you're basically telling me that a 1 hour post meal reading of 10mmol is totally normal and that I should go away and not worry about it. Either that or you're saying go away and come back if I become fully diabetic.

What I'm saying is that this conflicts with what some other users have said and other information I have read.

And I have never been one to blindly accept an opinion, especially given that doctors have not only missed but totally dismissed many conditions in my family including cancer.

 

[AndBreathe]

During a conversation with my diabetic neighbor, I mentioned that I had been feeling fatigued and having tingling in my feet and hands. On his suggestion he took my blood sugar which registered 10mmol and he advised me to see my to see my doctor about it, which I did.

My hypothesis about stress may be imaginary but you then indicated that there is a clear link, which to me suggests that I may be affecting my readings.This is the kind information that I'm looking for to alleviate what you've indicated is unnecessary concern, hence why I'm on the forum.

From the tone of your response it seems that you're basically telling me that a 1 hour post meal reading of 10mmol is totally normal and that I should go away and not worry about it. Either that or you're saying go away and come back if I become fully diabetic.

What I'm saying is that this conflicts with what some other users have said and other information I have read.

And I have never been one to blindly accept an opinion, especially given that doctors have not only missed but totally dismissed many conditions in my family including cancer.

Depending on many many factors, non-diabetics can score 10 a hour after eating, for a brief period. One of the major differences between those with diabetes, and those who do not is the time it takes for high bloods to return to normal. Most non-diabetic people have no idea what their bloods run at, simply because they don't test.

I'm not telling you to go anywhere. You are a grown adult, but what I am suggesting is you apparent level of anxiety over this, bearing in mind you have had some lab based tests, requested and interpreted by someone who knows a lot more about you and your history than a bunch of strangers on the internet.

I think you should maybe just relax and go for a retest at some point, in a couple of months.

Roger, over and out.

 

[Captain Glucose]

Exactly, and my questions are centered on that fact. It's only by testing that one can get a true picture of what is going on with the body.

Depending on many many factors, non-diabetics can score 10 a hour after eating, for a brief period. One of the major differences between those with diabetes, and those who do not is the time it takes for high bloods to return to normal. Most non-diabetic people have no idea what their bloods run at, simply because they don't test.

I'm not telling you to go anywhere. You are a grown adult, but what I am suggesting is you apparent level of anxiety over this, bearing in mind you have had some lab based tests, requested and interpreted by someone who knows a lot more about you and your history than a bunch of strangers on the internet.

I think you should maybe just relax and go for a retest at some point, in a couple of months.

Roger, over and out.

Do you know what? Thinking about it, you're absolutely right.

I've totally over thought this and need to get some perspective.

I'll get some exercise, eat healthy and wait a couple of months to see how I fare

Thank you for your frank reply.

Mike