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Definition of 'Reversed / Cured' Type 2

Living-by-the-beach said:
@kokhongw

This entire forum is very interesting from the point of view of everyone trying to find a fix to their T2DM yet you were the first person to mention Phd Valter Longo and his work. I've listened to some of his work and its very interesting. He's advocating incorporating fasting as a long term goal for better health across the board, reduced numbers of cancers, regeneration of internal organs etc It really improves the longevity of one's health..


Very interesting indeed..

LBB
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You probably meant for this thread. I am sure others have long been aware and following Dr Valter Longs's FMD research way before I was diagnosed and the fish scales of mainstream diabetes misguidance had not yet fallen from my eyes...

But few of us comprehends and appreciate how potentially far reaching Dr Valta Longo fasting/refeeding cycles is. And that he has been testing/validating it under life/death situations for those undergoing chemotherapy. I believe his findings are legit. Of course more needs to be done to understand the optimal cycles and sequence/content of refeeding. Hopefully enough researchers latch on to leverage on his work.
 
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kokhongw said:
You probably meant for this thread. I am sure others have long been aware and following Dr Valter Longs's FMD research way before I was diagnosed and the fish scales of mainstream diabetes misguidance had not yet fallen from my eyes...

But few of us comprehends and appreciate how potentially far reaching Dr Valta Longo fasting/refeeding cycles is. And that he has been testing it under life/death situations undergoing chemotherapy. I believe his findings are legit. Of course more needs to be done to understand the optimal cycles and sequence/content of refeeding. Hopefully enough researchers latch on to leverage on his work.
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@kokhongw

As its Holy week I've decided to do a fast myself. I did one a few days ago but I'll try and push as far as I can go. I will share with you how I get on later on in the week. I've been banging away the miles cycling and I feel very good other than the T2DM. I'll keep you posted with updates..
 
JohnEGreen said:
I'm unsure if that is a good combination fasting and heavy exercise especially road cycling.
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Firstly I didn't want to hijack this thread but as a legit question has been asked I figured I'd answer it.

Hi @JohnEGreen

On this link

Dr Mosely shows his torso via an MRI

Mosely Diabetes.png

This shows what "That white stuff is all fat" said Mosely, we know that visceral fat is what actually causes T2DM. In the above clip Mosely explains that he's a Toffee thin on the outside with fats around his organs on the inside. If you watch the entire video Mosely was a relatively thin diabetic (BMI 26s) to start in the first place. When tested in the US though he had 30% abdominal fat.


Over here https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/fasting-and-exercise-fasting-23/ Dr Jason Fung explains

" For example, this study looked at muscle fibres both before and after training in the fasted state. This means that you fast for a certain period of time, usually around 24 hours and then do your endurance or other training. The combination of low insulin and high adrenalin levels created by the fasted state stimulates adipose tissue lipolysis (breakdown of fat) and peripheral fat oxidation (burning of fat for energy). " I think we can agree that we as T2DM's need to break down our visceral fats..

lebron-skinny.jpg


Fung goes on and in summation gives his best ideas..

"So, what’s my best advice on physical exertion and fasting? Don’t worry about it. Do everything you normally do during fasting. If you normally exercise, or even if you don’t, you can still do it during fasting. Whether you fast for 24 hours or 24 days, you can still exercise." (If its good enough for Lebron its probably okay for a weeks fasting for LBB)

A good deal of current knowledge of reversals of T2DM stem from bariatric surgeries. Professor Roy Taylor 's work tries to mimic surgery with his 2011 studies on 800 kcals/day for 8 weeks for diabetic patients.

Here Dr Jason Fung https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/fasting-cures-diabetes-t2d-4/

shows that within one week of post bariatric surgery blood sugars are normalized even before the benefits of massive weight loss is enjoyed. This is what we T2DM's could be doing, aggressively mimicking a surgery we won't or can't do..

I hope my thinking stands up to peer reviews.. If I've said anything contentious in voicing ideas here please don't start a flame war.. PM me and I'll modify my post..
 
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Really I was actually concerned about ending up under a bus if you come off your bike due to feeling feint.
 
JohnEGreen said:
Really I was actually concerned about ending up under a bus if you come off your bike due to feeling feint.
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@JohnEGreen

That too is a totally valid concern. Most of the time I'm on a dedicated bike path, I minimize the roads I take to be quiet roads, out of a 24+mile ride I'm on roads for about 3-4 miles. It used to be less but we moved a little bit more away from the beach (as shown in the avatar)
 
douglas99 said:
Well, I just tested after having a homemade chocolate cookie, and a banana muffin with a cup of coffee.
4.8
I consider that reversed, and I haven't put the weight back on.
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Hi well done are you still reversed I think I’ve reversed mine it was 54mm in March now in June it was 36mm I’ve lost 1 my stone since June I’m not due another test till December
 
I'd put my own definition in a previous thread but I've revised it based on advice from notable posters @ianf0ster & @lucylocket61

Controlled = A1c < 6.5%
Partial Remission = No BG Meds + A1c < 6.5%
Full Remission = No BG Meds + FBG < 5.6 + A1c < 5.7%
Reversal = No BG Meds + FBG < 5.6 + A1c < 5.7% + OGTT < 7.8 @ 2 Hours
 
Ronancastled said:
Controlled = A1c < 6.5%
Partial Remission = No BG Meds + A1c < 6.5%
Full Remission = No BG Meds + FBG < 5.6 + A1c < 5.7%
Reversal = No BG Meds + FBG < 5.6 + A1c < 5.7% + OGTT < 7.8 @ 2 Hours
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I like that one!
 
MrsA2 said:
I like that one!
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We could include CGM criteria in future definitions.
Or indeed use CGM data solely for a simplified definition.

Reversal = TIR (3.9-7.8) = 95% or >7.8(140) = <5%
Note I pulled those figures out of thin air, just noting that non-diabetics wearing CGMs only exceed 7.8(140) 2-4% of the time.
Depending on which study you read.
 
Jayne1983 said:
Hi well done are you still reversed I think I’ve reversed mine it was 54mm in March now in June it was 36mm I’ve lost 1 my stone since June I’m not due another test till December
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I think the person you are asking has left the forum now, so I doubt you will get a reply.
 
https://www.diabetes.org.uk/about_us/news/remission-new-definition

This is apparently what remission has been agreed to be. I have a different view but if this holds then an A1c under 48 m/mol for three months without glucose-lowering medication is what remission officially looks like. Strikes me there will be an awful lot of scope for juggling with this.
 
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