Diabetes Uk dietary advice

[borofergie]

Not for me if I don't exercise!

So if you are a small sedentary woman then these diets are just at the maximum reasonable limit for carbohydrate (150g):
http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/5/1/9

If you are not small, not sedentary or not a woman then you're stuffed*.

*(in the interests of disclosure I am not small, not sedentary and not a woman)
**(this kind of explains why Grazer get's away with 150g though).

 

[Defren]

Moderator Edit (Pneu): This post is inappropriate and has been removed.

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[Defren]

The total carb figures here, are really scary, and to think this is the recommended diet by the UK's leading diabetes charity. I'm speechless (rare for me!)

 

[xyzzy]

Phoenix, it's great you don't follow that diet. I don't think any diabetic whatever type should go anywhere near it.

Anyway here's what it produces for me a 13st 8lb male, mid 50's, lightly active, wishing to lose weight. I've just quickly underlined the differences to that it gave Defren. Apologies if I've missed anything.

The regime definately says I can have snacks and, as as I do at the momemt on LCHF, I don't see why this HCLF diet should remove those simple pleasures from life.

So even if I agree with all your revised figures and add back the 10g for the Choccie biscuit then we start from 193g

To that we add another slice of wholemeal bread 17.8g
To dinner another 19g for the extra rice
To snax I can can have 2 choccie biscuits so another 10g
Oh and I can eat two pieces of fruit, well I had a banana for pud so lets say two apples, another 38g

Total for me

277.8

Based of your own figures, but correct me if I've got anything too wrong! I rest my case your honour. Come on Phoenix just admit it, you said it yourself, even you wouldn't recommend it :lol:

Your requirements have been estimated from the data you entered. Your sample daily menu is below. Remember that this is only a guide and a starting point to help you with portion sizes. Foods in the menu plan can be interchanged - it is important to eat a varied and balanced diet. Talk to your registered dietitian for specific advice about your diet.

Breakfast
Small glass of fruit juice or a portion of fruit (see below for what's a portion)
4 tablespoons of muesli or 4 tablespoons of porridge oats or 2 weetabix or 2 shredded wheat or 6 tablespoons of other cereal with 200mls semi-skimmed/skimmed milk
or
2 slices of toast or 2 crumpets or 1 bagel or 1 muffin with 2 teaspoons of sunflower or olive oil spread and 2 teaspoons jam/marmalade/honey

Lunch
sandwich made with 3 slices bread or 1 1⁄2 bread rolls or 1 1⁄2 pitta or 1 1⁄2; tortilla/wrap or 6 crispbreads with salad and
2-3 oz (60 - 85g) of cooked meat/poultry or vegetarian alternative or 4 - 5 oz (120 - 140g) tuna/sardines/mackerel or 3 1⁄2 oz (100g) cooked prawns or 2 boiled eggs
2 teaspoons low fat mayonnaise
with 2 teaspoons of sunflower or olive oil spread
Dessert: 1 low fat or diet yogurt

Dinner
9 tablespoons pasta/cous-cous/noodles or 6 tablespoons easy cook rice/basmati rice/bulgar wheat or 6 egg sized potatoes
with 6 tablepsoons vegetables or large portion of salad with low calorie dressing
4 - 6 oz (120 - 175g) of meat/poultry or 8 - 10 oz (240 - 300g) fish or 4 eggs or vegetarian alternative or 6 tablespoons pulses, beans or lentils
Dessert: 1 scoop ice cream and a portion of fruit (see below for what's a portion)
Additional daily milk allowance
1⁄3 pint (200mls) milk

Snacks
2 portions fruit + 2 biscuits. 1 portion = 1 banana, apple, orange, pear, 1 slice of a large fruit like melon or mango, 2 small fruit such as plums or apricots, handful of grapes, cherries or berries. 1 tablespoon of dried fruit

 

[borofergie]

Anyway here's what it produces for me a 13st 8lb male, mid 50's, lightly active, wishing to lose weight. I've just quickly

Isn't a 13st 8lb male technically a woman?

 

[librarising]

borofergie wrote
Isn't a 13st 8lb male technically a woman?

No, it's the "a 13st 8lb male ... wishing to lose weight."

13st 8lb ? So near and yet so far :? (13 st 12lb)

Geoff

 

[xyzzy]

Anyway here's what it produces for me a 13st 8lb male, mid 50's, lightly active, wishing to lose weight. I've just quickly

Isn't a 13st 8lb male technically a woman?

But that's the thing. I am most definitely male the last time I looked. At that weight and my 6ft 2in height my bmi is still 24.5 so only just normal. To get to the sheeps bmi of 22 I need to get down to 11st something and I still trip the DSN fatty tape. To me it really does say a lot about today's perceived norms as opposed to what was seen as normal up to the 1980s when all all this carb fest HCLF nonsense started.

 

[Grazer]

LOVING this diet. Plugged my figures in.
Now, in addition to the normal breakfast I have, I can have:-
EXTRA fruit juice at brekky!
FOUR SLICES OF BREAD FOR LUNCH!! (Instead of one or two burgen)

And on top of a bigger dinner than I have, I can have:-
TWO biscuits, (hob-nobs?) A slice of CAKE! and TWO bananas! (ALL on top of my normal)

I'm getting on this tomorrow! Soon have my diabetes cured.

Seriously, what happened to the 150 grams a day? Four slices of bread is nearly that!

 

[xyzzy]

the selection you chose includes carrots, peas and sweetcorn, all relatively high in carbs. Personally those are the three I almost never eat but agree that others might

What's quite shocking is I was recently told of a case where a dietician told an insulin using diabetic they could ignore sweetcorn as it had no effect on levels. When the diabetic turned round and said "well it effects mine" (mine too btw) they were told well you worry too much in that case just have a rough guess on non starchy veg or just ignore it all.

Yes I agree those are quite high carb veg BUT they are what a lot of people would buy because it's nice and cheap and easily available from the supermarket. Where on the site does it say "don't buy mixed veg as its higher carb" That's exactly what is disturbing about the diet it makes no distinction between what is a healthy diet for a non diabetic and what is healthy for a diabetic.

 

[phoenix]

Sorry Xyyzz,
I'm not doing any more calculations.
I don't know what you want me to admit. I set out what I felt to this type of question earlier.
In this thread I am taking no position . I could certainly adapt the diet as given to include far more carbs from legumes,' (one of the French 'experts' once said that people with diabetes need to learn to love legumes! (actually I don't) veggies, salads , nuts, seeds and real wholegrains and far fewer from industrially produced foods.

On this thread, I wanted to try to be accurate, with the carb counts; no more, no less. If you are going to challenge DUK, and it's them not me that you are concerned with, then you need to use the portion sizes they are using.

I still feel that this is very similar to Franz's starting point as referenced earlier.
You might like to look at the French Diabetes Association's site (not funded by Kellogs!)
http://www.afd.asso.fr/j-ai-le-diabete/ ... limentaire
Here I'm trying to say is that though you think that the UK is being contrary; they are giving similar advice to that given to people elsewhere.

edit there is a difference in the French advice in that you are told to avoid sugary products like cakes and biscuits except occasionally in the context of a meal.
And now I'm going for a swim else I'll be inactive and need even fewer calories.

 

[xyzzy]

I don't know what you want me to admit.

Well I was hoping you'd see your initial calculation was a tad optimistic but never mind like you say it's boring adding numbers up on such a nice day.

Oh and that anyone who truly does do a low carb diet in reality does do LCHF as low carb, low fat, low protein diets are simply figments of some peoples imaginations as they logically cannot exist.

Have a nice swim.

 

[Defren]

LOVING this diet. Plugged my figures in.
Now, in addition to the normal breakfast I have, I can have:-
EXTRA fruit juice at brekky!
FOUR SLICES OF BREAD FOR LUNCH!! (Instead of one or two burgen)

And on top of a bigger dinner than I have, I can have:-
TWO biscuits, (hob-nobs?) A slice of CAKE! and TWO bananas! (ALL on top of my normal)

I'm getting on this tomorrow! Soon have my diabetes cured.

Seriously, what happened to the 150 grams a day? Four slices of bread is nearly that!

I read this, put the leads on the dogs and we went for a 45 minute brisk walk. I need to burn the carbs, and that was just the ones I read about. I really can't believe what I have read in this thread. The dietary advice is crippling, blinding and killing people, yet they carry on pushing it - shocking!!

 

[phoenix]

I don't know what you want me to admit.

Well I was hoping you'd see your initial calculation was a tad optimistic but never mind like you say it's boring adding numbers up on such a nice day.

Oh and that anyone who truly does do a low carb diet in reality does do LCHF as low carb, low fat, low protein diets are simply figments of some peoples imaginations as they logically cannot exist.

Have a nice swim.

Stephen calculated it at 164; the differences would be accounted for by the fruit, the yoghurt etc. (and also hey, I admit I'm used to making every carb count)
I was thinking about the veggies whilst swimming. When we came here we tried to buy frozen peas because they were a staple in the freezer. The supemarket almost never had them so we gave up eating peas. Sweetcorn is also very rarely sold here, they grow a little to feed the ducks and the cows in the middle of winter but they don't eat it and I don't like carrots!
Now my freezer staple veg is spinach (with or without creme fraiche ) comes in little cubes so you can count out portions and microwave. My fresh staples are normally brocolli, cauli,(why are the UK ones now so small and expensive?) asparagus in season, mixed leaves, aubergine,courgettes, leeks, peppers, onions and tomatoes . They are what are cheap and only the last three have significant carbs.
It is possible to have low fat, normal protein and lowish carbs in terms of grams, though obviously not in terms of percentages. Did I ever say not? It is perfectly possible to have a low carb, high protein , low fat diet (Dukan)

I had a lovely swim, lowered my glucose to 3.2mmol/l, water has that effect on my glucose levels. It wasn't quite cold enough to do a Jack Kruse (cold thermogenesis) but at 20c it wasn't hot. Unlike the UK our weather is still not good

 

[Defren]

I don't know what you want me to admit.

Well I was hoping you'd see your initial calculation was a tad optimistic but never mind like you say it's boring adding numbers up on such a nice day.

Oh and that anyone who truly does do a low carb diet in reality does do LCHF as low carb, low fat, low protein diets are simply figments of some peoples imaginations as they logically cannot exist.

Have a nice swim.

Stephen calculated it at 164; the differences would be accounted for by the fruit, the yoghurt etc. (and also hey, I admit I'm used to making every carb count)
I was thinking about the veggies whilst swimming. When we came here we tried to buy frozen peas because they were a staple in the freezer. The supemarket almost never had them so we gave up eating peas. Sweetcorn is also very rarely sold here, they grow a little to feed the ducks and the cows in the middle of winter but they don't eat it and I don't like carrots!
Now my freezer staple veg is spinach (with or without creme fraiche ) comes in little cubes so you can count out portions and microwave. My fresh staples are normally brocolli, cauli,(why are the UK ones now so small and expensive?) asparagus in season, mixed leaves, aubergine,courgettes, leeks, peppers, onions and tomatoes . They are what are cheap and only the last three have significant carbs.
It is possible to have low fat, normal protein and lowish carbs in terms of grams, though obviously not in terms of percentages. Did I ever say not? It is perfectly possible to have a low carb, high protein , low fat diet (Dukan)

I had a lovely swim, lowered my glucose to 3.2mmol/l, water has that effect on my glucose levels. It wasn't quite cold enough to do a Jack Kruse (cold thermogenesis) but at 20c it wasn't hot. Unlike the UK our weather is still not good

Not out to rattle any cages here, but I have just had a thought. Just tagging your post Phoenix, but not aimed at you in particular.

If a person (Mr/Mrs/Ms/Miss Joe/anna blogs reads the DUK dietary information, they won't know about portion size as it's not clearly set out (or if they were a large eater before diagnosis, the amounts may not be enough, but as they are suggested along with this so called healthy diet, persons Blogs, may feel safe eating higher quantities). Sooo, they would likely go for a portion size they are used to. Now, that portion size could be quite larger than is intended on the DUK menu advice. This could lead to even larger carb and calorie intakes. That being the case then Phoenix' calculation at the lower end, and xyzzy' at the higher end could actually both be very low? People following a 'respected' [cough] diet could end up eating what is the recommended daily allowance of carbs for a person without diabetes, or perhaps even more.

 

[borofergie]

Stephen calculated it at 164; the differences would be accounted for by the fruit, the yoghurt etc. (and also hey, I admit I'm used to making every carb count)

164g was American carbs (with the fibre added), it was actually 146g UK carbs (you said 150g) I can forgive you for bumping up your estimate by a whole 4g!

I had a lovely swim, lowered my glucose to 3.2mmol/l, water has that effect on my glucose levels. It wasn't quite cold enough to do a Jack Kruse (cold thermogenesis) but at 20c it wasn't hot. Unlike the UK our weather is still not good

Ouch! I've been doing some 20 degree baths after my long runs, but that only goes up to my waist. I've read around the cold thermogenesis stuff (although unfortunately you can't get it from Jack himself because he writes like someone with learning difficulties). How was your Mammalian Dive Reflex?

 

[borofergie]

Ouch! I've been doing some 20 degree baths after my long runs, but that only goes up to my waist. I've read around the cold thermogenesis stuff (although unfortunately you can't get it from Jack himself because he writes like someone with learning difficulties). How was your Mammalian Dive Reflex?

I meant 15 degree baths. Well, at least they are 15 degrees when you get into them, after 20 mins it's more like 17, even with as much ice as the ice maker can handle.

There is definitely something about it though. It drops your core temperature by enough that you can't get warm again for the next few hours.

 

[Defren]

Ouch! I've been doing some 20 degree baths after my long runs, but that only goes up to my waist. I've read around the cold thermogenesis stuff (although unfortunately you can't get it from Jack himself because he writes like someone with learning difficulties). How was your Mammalian Dive Reflex?

I meant 15 degree baths. Well, at least they are 15 degrees when you get into them, after 20 mins it's more like 17, even with as much ice as the ice maker can handle.

There is definitely something about it though. It drops your core temperature by enough that you can't get warm again for the next few hours.

You need your bumps felt :lol:

 

[borofergie]

You need your bumps felt :lol:

You don't have any bumps worth feeling after 20 mins in a 15 degree bath...

 

[Unbeliever]

Moderator Edit (Pneu): This post is inappropriate and has been removed.

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[Paul1976]

You need your bumps felt :lol:

You don't have any bumps worth feeling after 20 mins in a 15 degree bath...

I tried the 15 degree plunge pool bath at Center Parcs once-It's true,You're lumps try and escape up the staircase if you know what I mean! :shock: :shock: