Diabetic Complications Poll

[Fallenstar]

[post removed: sarcastic comment aimed directly at another member]

 

[viviennem]

I was told by my Diabetic Specialist GP, on registration as a Type 2 diabetic: "you'll eventually go blind, get kidney disease and have to have your feet amputated".

If this is the bald statement that other Newbies have been given, no wonder they are frightened when they come here!

Fortunately for me, I was diagnosed 6 months before I let them register me - a pride thing - and I'd already had plenty of time to do my own research (not on this forum at that time). So she didn't scare me (I don't scare easily), but IMHO that was a much more insensitive statement than any I have seen posted on this forum.

I begin to understand now why part of a post of mine was censored a couple of evenings ago - apparently a minor had been scared by something s/he read? By all means have a 'Learner' zone for Newbies of all types, rather like preventing PMs until a member has made a number of posts. Please remember, however, that some of us no longer navigate via the Board Index - I go straight to My Posts, then if I have time I work through New Posts. I certainly don't have time to go from thread to thread, looking for posts that interest me, or that I may be able to contribute to.

Complications are a fact of diabetes, and should not be blurred round the edges. Is discussion of possible amputation and how to do your best to prevent it actually worse than the thing itself?

I had a Type 1 friend who died just before Christmas last year, at the age of 93, without a single complication. A great example of the benefits of tight control.

Viv 8)

 

[Unbeliever]

As I understand it Viv here was no accual " minor " in he case. It was merely a suggestion that minors and other sensitive persons might have been scared - nay- terrified had hey read abou complications. at any time.

You may remember that a while ago we were advised not o argue lest i upset any children who happened to read the forum.
The latest warning was on he same lines. No actual incident occurred.

It was he sme hypothetical monor who haunts this forum.

 

[borofergie]

Complications are a fact of diabetes, and should not be blurred round the edges. Is discussion of possible amputation and how to do your best to prevent it actually worse than the thing itself?

That'll be the winning argument then.

 

[viviennem]

I have a suspicion that we've been "infiltrated". How our unfriends must be enjoying this!

Viv 8)

 

[Unbeliever]

Complications are a fact of diabetes, and should not be blurred round the edges. Is discussion of possible amputation and how to do your best to prevent it actually worse than the thing itself?

That'll be the winning argument then.[/quote

Perhaps the problem is that "complications" in itself is a misnomer. They are more correctly I think, possible consequences of diabetes.
I can understand why we don't use that expression , but I don't understand why newly diagnosed are shocked and horrified if hey are totally unaware of any consequences of diabetes.

I don't know which planet people must hail from not to be aware of the general perception of diabetes as inevitably leading o amputation and blindness- there were sufficient people who seemed to take a ghoulish delight in these assumptions when I was diagnosed!

Can anyone really believe that such intelligent people such as Viv and Borofergie , who have both helped many new members, want to scare people?

I hope anyone in favour of giving false reassurance will read their postas and think again

Giving them information about these things immediately should have the effect of reassuring them . Knowledge is power.
Fear of the unknown is often the greatest fear.

Surely they are not traumatised entirely by the thought of having to give up sweets?

 

[Unbeliever]

I have a suspicion that we've been "infiltrated". How our unfriends must be enjoying this!

Viv 8)[/quote

Once again I find myself agreeing wih you VIV! I think it is fairly obvious but maybe those whose business it is to notice are otherwise engaged.

 

[viviennem]

I have a suspicion that we've been "infiltrated". How our unfriends must be enjoying this!

Viv 8)[/quote

Once again I find myself agreeing wih you VIV! I think it is fairly obvious but maybe those whose business it is to notice are otherwise engaged.

Very well put, Unbeliever :clap: .

Viv 8)

 

[xyzzy]

Goodness a healer and a comic, the talents of this Woman knows no bounds....Like I say a saviour...Fingers and brain well and truly engaged....and eyes bright with wonderment at all the good you do for every Diabetic Defren...Aahhhhhh, You make us feel all warm and fuzzy and thats not my Neuropathy.

Keep up the Melodramatics,oopps, I meant good work ,obviously fingers not engaged that time

Isn't that one of those ad hominominominominum things?

 

[benedict]

Ooooo the drama of it all.....Don't go out there we are all going to die :lol: I hope you will carry on saving us Jo, the world is a much safer place with peeps like you around, phew Ill sleep soundly tonight.

This comment will be removed as it's not constructive and antagonistic. If you disagree there are better ways of putting things.

Goodness a healer and a comic, the talents of this Woman knows no bounds....Like I say a saviour...Fingers and brain well and truly engaged....and eyes bright with wonderment at all the good you do for every Diabetic Defren...Aahhhhhh, You make us feel all warm and fuzzy and thats not my Neuropathy.

Keep up the Melodramatics,oopps, I meant good work ,obviously fingers not engaged that time

Post removed -yet more sarcasm and obviously antagonistic.

That'll be the winning argument then.

This kind of phrase will usually incite resentment.

Isn't that one of those ad hominominominominum things?

Please use the report button then.

Benedict

 

[angua]

As we are not medically qualified and most probably without medically qualified forum staff, only opinions can be offered and NONE should be taken as fact.

This needs to be made plain before someone holds the forum owner legally responsible for misrepresentation of established medical facts.
In the UK it is impossible to disclaim responsibilities laid down by the law.

If indeed there is a 'minor' trolling through the forum .. and getting frightened - then I applaud their presence of mind and assertion to bring this information to admin, whilst feeling so fragile and vulnerable

However I must doubt that those people who refuse acknowledge reality would have been swayed by whatever may have been said here, or by what perceived tone, either sensitive or insensitive

Symptoms and diagnosis from medical sites are freely available, however anyone who takes information straight from any internet site, be it NHS or forum based without double checking or validating it, is in my opinion foolish.

When I came to this site knowledge of diabetes, complications or otherwise was gleaned from 'safe' sources such as NHS - conversely anything I learned here was information about peoples own experience of living life as a diabetic and complications that they experienced / did not want to experience .. in other words anecdotal.

My overall learning experience was that diabetes was not terminal, unmanageable, nor specifically something I'd done to myself, and after reading the forum for a while (both threads on diet and complications) I began to be both concerned that if I didn't DO SOMETHING then complications would be something I would have to be responsible for myself, yet heartily reassured that a great number of members were able to commit to change and were evidently getting better results

So "Should members be allowed to discuss the causes and reality of diabetic complications"

If other members can post

" All I really want is cake, chocolate, bread - why can't I have it ?

Which personally I find an offensive post and really makes me angry - I can have the above if I want, they can have the above if they want - I don't want the associated bg levels that go with it and I struggle as hard as any of us must, who no longer count these items amongst our daily go to foods - my point here is that I don't read these posts, I don't want to be brought down to the level of feeling denied and hard done by and I don't currently have enough of my own sense of well being to share anything with posters like this - hopefully I'll grow kinder

By that rule nobody HAS to join a conversation regarding complications - but if you start one or join one you MUST expect that people are going to make observations and there is no moderation that will be able to cherry pick only the 'nice' ones that don't offend your sensibilities

I would respectfully suggest if minors are unhappy, they should be restricted to a children's area and that the adults not be prevented from discussing certain topics, because of fear of damaging those minors - just as I have not asked for the self absorbed posters (my opinion) comments to be removed or moderated for fear of my being coerced back into a life of bread intake and high bg

otherwise what is the point of a forum like this ?

 

[Defren]

Defren ... there's a vast difference and even a legal implication between the word 'advice' and 'information'. No-one on this forum to my knowledge is qualified to give anyone else advice. Even professionals are simply giving 'professional opinions'. The reason I'm advocating being careful in this situation is because I was a counsellor of abuse victims for many years and I know the harm that can occur from being over enthusiastic and assuming that people want to know what WE (who know) believe they will also want to know.

Because you needed a kick up the rear doesn't mean another person will need the same thing, that's why personal choice comes into the equation were sensitive information is concerned.

We agree on so many things Defren and I really value your input and the information you've put forward but on this particular issue, I can't agree ... and hope we can agree to differ. :wink:

Firstly, I have worked in law all my life, I am a highly skilled professional in my field and there is no legal implications in advice, good, bad or indifferent.

No, we are never going to agree on this, and other subject in the future I suspect, you have strong views as do I, certainly no hard feelings over the fact.

I'm sure you are a highly skilled professional Defren ... but this forum isn't about professionals giving advice. It's about mutual respect not only for each other's viewpoints but also for each others sensitivities at times of vulnerability.

You seem to have made your mind up based on one instance of disagreement, that we're not going to agree on anything in future. That's a shame.

Grace you're being melodramatic. On any kind of platform where people engage there will be differences of opinion. The simple fact is, I do think we will agree on many, many things, but there is bound to be issues we don't, This is not a bad thing, it makes for discussion and debate, and through those mediums we learn other points of view, that could and often does make us think of something we hadn't previously - that is the nature of the beast.

 

[GraceK]

Grace you're being melodramatic. On any kind of platform where people engage there will be differences of opinion. The simple fact is, I do think we will agree on many, many things, but there is bound to be issues we don't, This is not a bad thing, it makes for discussion and debate, and through those mediums we learn other points of view, that could and often does make us think of something we hadn't previously - that is the nature of the beast.[/quote]


I'm being melodramatic? That's a very personal character judgement to make, Defren. And you seem to be preaching at me about things I already accept without reservation and have no problem with and have actually promoted before.

I'm stating my personal opinions on this topic and they're not being received very well because they're being interpreted as a directive, which they aren't. They're my personal opinions. I don't really know how many times I need to express that. It's also in BLOCK CAPITALS in my signature. I don't give advice, I don't give directives, I give MY OPINIONS which I certainly don't expect everyone to agree with and I also don't make personal character judgements about other people because their opinions differ from mine.

I don't expect to have my every word agreed with and nor would I want that and I also don't expect that as a newbie, my opinions will be well received by all. But I'm not a newbie to Planet Earth, I've been here quite a while now and like anyone else, I am entitled to my opinions aren't I, without fear of being accused of being melodramatic? If you would prefer me to stop putting my opinions forward, just say so or I think there's a facility within the User Control Panel where we can block certain members posts from being visible to us.

 

[benedict]

Hold on here -there's character analysis going on from both sides from what I see

You seem to have made your mind up based on one instance of disagreement, that we're not going to agree on anything in future. That's a shame.

Grace you're being melodramatic.

May I suggest there's an agreement to disagree here?

Benedict

 

[Defren]

Hold on here -there's character analysis going on from both sides from what I see

You seem to have made your mind up based on one instance of disagreement, that we're not going to agree on anything in future. That's a shame.

Grace you're being melodramatic.

May I suggest there's an agreement to disagree here?

Benedict

+1 Although I would like to say, my melodramatic statement was about Grace's post, not her as a person. I apologize for not making that clearer.

 

[GraceK]

[/quote]

Firstly, I have worked in law all my life, I am a highly skilled professional in my field and there is no legal implications in advice, good, bad or indifferent.

No, we are never going to agree on this, and other subject in the future I suspect, you have strong views as do I, certainly no hard feelings over the fact.[/quote]

Benedict ... I took the above first sentence to mean that Defren is telling me she has a legal background, is a highly skilled professional in that field and therefore, knows everything about the legalities of using the word 'advice' on a public forum and that I know nothing about it. Which is quite incorrect. I know a lot about it and the legal implications of 'advice giving' and the use of words and their interpretations and misinterpretations in cyber.

The second paragraph tells me in no uncertain terms that she's feels it highly unlikely we'll ever agree on anything ever again. Hence my response. I'm not intimidated or impressed by 'highly skilled professionals' of any kind.

 

[Administrator]

I took the above first sentence to mean that Defren is telling me she has a legal background, is a highly skilled professional in that field and therefore, knows everything about the legalities of using the word 'advice' on a public forum and that I know nothing about it.

Personally, I didn't read it this way.

No, we are never going to agree on this, and other subject in the future I suspect

It comes across to me as on the negative side and I must say I can see why 'melodramatic' was used now, but if Defren feels that way then so be it.

I think (hope) we can call this closed.

Benedict

 

[Unbeliever]

Angua , Great post - mainly becaiuse I agreed with every word! The pont you make about being offended by certain posts is interesting and valid.

I m sure tthat at sme ime we have all been offended by certain posts even when I not personally involved. I am often offended by
posts making assumptions about T2s in general and assuming they are responsible for their own condition.

I don't take it personally but find it exasperaing/. Fortunately I can post my own opinion unless someone else does so first and we hope that we have "educated "someone and made others who are upset also feel better.

None of us can help projectinng our own feelings onto others -its natural but I hope that those responsible for moderation will seriously consider the opposing views expressed by many posters to the policy of over -protection of newcomers ..

As you say, if we are not homnest with hem then what is the pint of a forum like thi

 

[waldo65]

I would personally want to know of any complications and how to avoid them.
Prior, preparation and planning is far better than being thrown in at the deep end and not being prepared
In my humble opinion

 

[Johnboy59]

As a newly diagnosed T2 I feel being told the truth rather than brush the unpleasant possible complications of the illness under the carpet ESSENTIAL. Reason: I am already realising that controlling this illness is 90% down to me and my commitment and 10% down to drugs and the medics. Grisly reality focusses the mind somewhat :shock: