Diagnosed T2 a week ago.

bulkbiker

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Cutting back drastically on saturated fats has improved my cardiac performance by a large margin. There's a good chance I wouldn't be alive today if I hadn't. If you have any credible evidence that this caused my diabetes I'd love to see it.

Have you been eating lots of healthy fruit?
The high fructose that leads to fatty liver disease and Type 2 through an increase in insulin resistance.
I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "cardiac performance" either. Has it improved after cutting back on sat fat? How measured.. I am genuinely interested although somewhat sceptical.
 

NewTD2

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Low-Carb, High Fat diet is not the same and should not be confused with Zero-Carb, High Protein Highly Saturated Fat diet.

The Low-Carb diet recommended by nutritionists is composed of:

- A quarter plate lean meat (ideally chicken breast, oily fish like salmon, lean beef). Absolutely no fatty cuts of beef, pork, lamb, chicken or canned, dried, processed meats like canned sausages, salami etc.

- A quarter plate carbohydrate (ideally stoned baked brown bread, brown rice - and no potatoes, white pasta, white noodles or white rice). We need carbs for energy but the right portion / type of carbs!

- Half plate vegetables (non-starchy, low glycemic ie broccoli, spinach, brussel sprouts, red peppers etc and all other above ground vegetables).

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/diet/low-carb-diabetes-diet.html
 
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Alexandra100

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Low-Carb, High Fat diet is not the same and should not be confused with Zero-Carb, High Protein Highly Saturated Fat diet.

The Low-Carb diet recommended by nutritionists is composed of:

- A quarter plate lean meat (ideally chicken breast, oily fish like salmon, lean beef). Absolutely no fatty cuts of beef, pork, lamb, chicken or canned, dried, processed meats like canned sausages, salami etc.

- A quarter plate carbohydrate (ideally stoned baked brown bread, brown rice - and no potatoes, white pasta, white noodles or white rice). We need carbs for energy but the right portion / type of carbs!

- Half plate vegetables (non-starchy, low glycemic ie broccoli, spinach, brussel sprouts, red peppers etc and all other above ground vegetables).

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/diet/low-carb-diabetes-diet.html
It is my belief that no-one eats or advocates a zero carb diet. This would mean eating only meat and fish - no eggs, cream, cheese, nuts, vegetables. I would love to be able to eat the kind of "healthy" diet you seem to prefer, though I would not call it low carb. Sadly, when I was eating more or less that way it was making my blood glucose rise and fluctuate in a way that I, and people I consider authorities (Jenny Ruhl, Dr Bernstein) believe to be harmful. Not everyone has the same tolerance for carbs. You may be fine with a quarter plate of them, lucky you! but I struggle to keep my bg down on 20g a day. The NHS nutritionist I saw recently advised me to give up eating low carb, allow myself to become diabetic and trust to medicine to sort me out. At least he did not pretend that eating as you outline above would save me from high bg.
 

NewTD2

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It is my belief that no-one eats or advocates a zero carb diet. This would mean eating only meat and fish - no eggs, cream, cheese, nuts, vegetables. I would love to be able to eat the kind of "healthy" diet you seem to prefer, though I would not call it low carb. Sadly, when I was eating more or less that way it was making my blood glucose rise and fluctuate in a way that I, and people I consider authorities (Jenny Ruhl, Dr Bernstein) believe to be harmful. Not everyone has the same tolerance for carbs. You may be fine with a quarter plate of them, lucky you! but I struggle to keep my bg down on 20g a day. The NHS nutritionist I saw recently advised me to give up eating low carb, allow myself to become diabetic and trust to medicine to sort me out. At least he did not pretend that eating as you outline above would save me from high bg.

Yes I can tolerate a quarter plate carb and half plate vegetables and my bg reads between 5s and 6s after 2 hours or so.

However if I don’t eat carbs at all it would read between the 4s and 5s but that would leave me without energy!

I tried Ketogenic diet and I almost died.

We are all different I suppose. However if I eat a small potato or even a slice of whole meal bread it would shoot my bg levels up!
 

bulkbiker

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Messages
19,575
Type of diabetes
Type 2
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Diet only
Low-Carb, High Fat diet is not the same and should not be confused with Zero-Carb, High Protein Highly Saturated Fat diet.

The Low-Carb diet recommended by nutritionists is composed of:

- A quarter plate lean meat (ideally chicken breast, oily fish like salmon, lean beef). Absolutely no fatty cuts of beef, pork, lamb, chicken or canned, dried, processed meats like canned sausages, salami etc.

- A quarter plate carbohydrate (ideally stoned baked brown bread, brown rice - and no potatoes, white pasta, white noodles or white rice). We need carbs for energy but the right portion / type of carbs!

- Half plate vegetables (non-starchy, low glycemic ie broccoli, spinach, brussel sprouts, red peppers etc and all other above ground vegetables).

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/diet/low-carb-diabetes-diet.html

I am well aware of what a low carb diet is and the difference between that and a ketogenic diet (which by the way is not necessarily high protein) as well as a zero carb diet.

You are happy to quote the low carb page from this site
but seem to want to ignore this bit

"It is advisable to ensure the fat content of your diet comes from natural sources, such as:

  • Meat
  • Fish
  • Dairy
  • Eggs
  • Nuts
  • Avocado
  • Olives
  • Olive oil
Natural sources of fat, such as the above, will provide a balance of monounsaturated, polyunsaturated and saturated fat."

No idea why butter was missed off that list...

A quarter plate of carbs of whatever hue would be way too many for a lot of people here (me included). We do not need carbs for energy so I'm afraid your "nutritionist" is incorrect there. If you wish to eat chicken breast and fish only feel free but please don't make claims that are not supported by current science.
 

NewTD2

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I am well aware of what a low carb diet is and the difference between that and a ketogenic diet (which by the way is not necessarily high protein) as well as a zero carb diet.

You are happy to quote the low carb page from this site
but seem to want to ignore this bit

"It is advisable to ensure the fat content of your diet comes from natural sources, such as:

  • Meat
  • Fish
  • Dairy
  • Eggs
  • Nuts
  • Avocado
  • Olives
  • Olive oil
Natural sources of fat, such as the above, will provide a balance of monounsaturated, polyunsaturated and saturated fat."

No idea why butter was missed off that list...

A quarter plate of carbs of whatever hue would be way too many for a lot of people here (me included). We do not need carbs for energy so I'm afraid your "nutritionist" is incorrect there. If you wish to eat chicken breast and fish only feel free but please don't make claims that are not supported by current science.


This is the plate method provided by nutritionists
http://www.diabetesforecast.org/2015/adm/diabetes-plate-method/how-to-create-your-plate.html
 

Alexandra100

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,742
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Yes I can tolerate a quarter plate carb and half plate vegetables and my bg reads between 5s and 6s after 2 hours or so.

However if I don’t eat carbs at all it would read between the 4s and 5s but that would leave me without energy!

I tried Ketogenic diet and I almost died.

We are all different I suppose. However if I eat a small potato or even a slice of whole meal bread it would shoot my bg levels up!
Interesting! Sadly (for me!) I think being a man helps.
 

NewTD2

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I tried Ketogenic diet but it didn’t work for me sadly!

I was on ketosis and upped my fat intake but my body wouldn’t switch.

After 5-6 weeks, I could hardly walk and lost so much energy I ended up in the A & E!!!

Shame coz I believed and admired Dr Jason Fung!
 

bulkbiker

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19,575
Type of diabetes
Type 2
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Diet only
I tried Ketogenic diet but it didn’t work for me sadly!

I was on ketosis and upped my fat intake but my body wouldn’t switch.

After 5-6 weeks, I could hardly walk and lost so much energy I ended up in the A & E!!!

Shame coz I believed and admired Dr Jason Fung!
Interested to know what you were eating on your keto diet that led to such a dramatic hospitalisation.
 

NewTD2

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Type of diabetes
Treatment type
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Interested to know what you were eating on your keto diet that led to such a dramatic hospitalisation.

Keto diet didn’t work out for me I’m afraid

I tried though because as I said I admire Dr J Fung
 

NewTD2

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1,563
Type of diabetes
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Doesn't actually answer my question but hey your prerogative..

If I could get my energy from fats instead of carbs that would be fantastic but I’m afraid my body wouldn’t switch and adapt.

I tried though.
 

mgwoolgar

Newbie
Messages
4
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Hi Roy - T2 is a shock, but certainly not the end of the world. I have had T2 for about 15 years, and have found that diet control is essential - basically cutting out almost all carbohydrates (bread, pasta, rice, and especially anything with sugars - the carbs break down to sugar in your blood-stream). I presently follow the LCHF regime (somewhere around 50 gm of carbs/day) which seems to keep me in pretty good condition, at a constant healthy weight, without enormous sacrifice. Some exercise is also recommended, but walking is about all my ancient legs are up to. I also take Metformin twice a day. I highly recommend checking the www.dietdoctor.com website which provides a lot of medically supported explanations and background on the LCHF theory diet, as well as connections with many thousands of kindred diabetic people. It also provides MANY recipes for great dishes as well as complete meal plans. I eat lots of natural fats and butter, meats, eggs, vegetables, etc., with no negative effects on my cholesterol, and enjoy a glass of red wine at night, as well as my whiskey (or vodka) and water (or soda) on the weekends (no more rum and coke though). I had low-carb banana pancakes for breakfast this morning which were delicious! You can live with T2 and still enjoy a great life with just a few modifications. Check out the website that I mentioned for all sorts of great suggestions and support.
 
P

pollensa

Guest
Hi all, as the thread title says, I was diagnosed type2 a week ago today as a result of tests conducted for a different ailment. To say I was stunned by the diagnosis is a gross understatement! I only went to my GP with chronic heartburn! Along with the T2 I was also diagnosed with a stomach infection and an as yet unknown liver problem, for which I am having further tests done to clarify.

Having joined the forum a few days ago, I've spent my spare time browsing the various threads and picking up lots of information about T2 and would just like to say this forum is the bees knees! No doubt I'll have lots of questions in the near future so please be patient with me! :)
Hello Roy dont panic, and sorry to hear the diagnosis, it stuns us all, even myself pre diabetic, well pre diabetic due to cut offs in New Zealand but viewed Diabetic in Spain, so try and work that one out, its all a big business you see. The diabetic system cannot even get the cut offs the same they are all arbitrary set, with no medical or clinical support backup for the cut off, but well thats another story.

On positive side, you have been informed you have type 2 look at it, you have now the change to do something about it!! you are LUCKY, its not the chronic progressive unable to reverse and you will be on medication for life as normally informed, with lifestyle change, it can be reversed I am living proof of that and speak only from myself.

What to do.....

I did not take metformin I decided to change my lifestyle even though healthy and surfing daily I went further down the line and changed to be MORE healthy lets say.

What did I do to reduce my A1C by 23% in just four months NO MEDICATION SIMPLY. You asked for any guideance so here is one from Mallorca,

1.
Dont eat potatoes, pasta, bread or rice.
Substitute potatoes for pumpkin in moderatin, pasta get a spiralizer from lakeland, best pressie to yourself in the world, and make pasta with courgette/zuchinni, rice, substitute for grated caulifour, bread, make easy seed crackers, all yummie. Go to www.dietdoctor.com an amazing website that includes keto eating plan low carb recipes all yummie and with ingredients one normally have in their home without going to any expense.


2.
Eat low carb 20, 30 or 50 grams a day, dont count, just have general idea or you go crazy, bascially eat real food but do not include in the carbs you eat, potatoes, bread, rice or pasta simple!

3.
Walk walk walk, if tread at home life saver, save up get a small one, simply walk 10 mins after each meal. if no tread, walk approx 5 to 8lm a day if you can, a brisk 5 min walk can make the difference, so walk walk walk, park car furthest away from where you are going. to exercise after a meal is great, as it burns off all or any carbs that may have been eaten during that meal.

finally

4.
Intermittent fast, it works wonders, I do 2 days no breakfast, 1 day no breakfast or lunch simple. Have evening meal at 8pm breakfast next day comprises only black tea or coffee, next meal lunch. You dont feel hungry well I dont, cant speak for others, but you dont feel you have not eaten for 18 hour fast, why, you sleep for approx 8 hours in between. The 24 hour fast, is same format, even meal, with difference, no breakfast, just coffee or tea, lunch tea, and finally next meal dinner 8pm. Your body is eating its own fat, which is the problem of diabetes.

I have not only reduced my A1C 23% but lost in 11 months 21 kilos! feeling great, and still surfing daily here in Mallorca at 68 years.

the four simple lifestyle change have kept my finger testing levels in the 80 mg/dl for random, 2 hr after eat and fasting!!! on a continuous level, I only test them every 4 months and shows not just a good day the levels each 4 months of testing, are more or less one or two points up or down...... all due to the system above.

Hope the change of lifestyle as above works for you too if you try......go one you can do it, its fun, and really by my being told pre diabetes, it gave me a better life, at the end of the day I am 21 kilos less and feel the best I have for 30 years to be honest.

You have the ball in your court, you know your body best, listen to yourself first and foremost and if you wish to follow medical advices or take medication as prescribed, so be it, but my suggestion is get a second and third opinion!!!!!!!!
and in between just change your lifestyle.

Good Luck and hope the within is helpful?

Mallorca
 
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pollensa

Guest
Hi Roy - T2 is a shock, but certainly not the end of the world. I have had T2 for about 15 years, and have found that diet control is essential - basically cutting out almost all carbohydrates (bread, pasta, rice, and especially anything with sugars - the carbs break down to sugar in your blood-stream). I presently follow the LCHF regime (somewhere around 50 gm of carbs/day) which seems to keep me in pretty good condition, at a constant healthy weight, without enormous sacrifice. Some exercise is also recommended, but walking is about all my ancient legs are up to. I also take Metformin twice a day. I highly recommend checking the www.dietdoctor.com website which provides a lot of medically supported explanations and background on the LCHF theory diet, as well as connections with many thousands of kindred diabetic people. It also provides MANY recipes for great dishes as well as complete meal plans. I eat lots of natural fats and butter, meats, eggs, vegetables, etc., with no negative effects on my cholesterol, and enjoy a glass of red wine at night, as well as my whiskey (or vodka) and water (or soda) on the weekends (no more rum and coke though). I had low-carb banana pancakes for breakfast this morning which were delicious! You can live with T2 and still enjoy a great life with just a few modifications. Check out the website that I mentioned for all sorts of great suggestions and support.
TOTALLY AGREE, and how wonderful to see someone has remarked the words MEDICALLY SUPPORTED EXPLANATIONS, CONSIDERING, the cut off numbers worldwide are all ARBITRARY SET, by the so called committee members, who acknowledge and agree the numbers set lowered are at whim, random and are not medically or clinically supported, its just a case, they decide to lower!!! excuse being to capture the disease earlier, well that seems sense, but what happens when those who were not pre diabetic or diabetic, suddenly overnight, WHEN THE CUT OFF LEVELS TO DIAGNOSE DIABETES drops from 140mg/dl to 100 then 100, who does this benefit? how many people overnight become pre or diabetic, and perhaps wrongly prescribed medications??????

The importance is the world diabetic should only set cut offs for finger testing results and A1C which are 100% set by medical and clincial supported reasons that all medical world complies and follows the criteria of one set number, instead of different numbers worldwide. I am pre if I resided in NZ why their A1C cut off is 6.7% whereas spain is 6.5% so its a case frightening to say the least it depends where you are in the world when diagnosed, i.e. in spain I am viewed diabetic, if I jump on the plane back home to New Zealand, I am viewed Pre Diabetic with pragmatic approach, caution, change of life style, recheck in 12 months, rather than put the label to a person for life as diabetic, the world diabetic should follow this approach too........

I agree the diet Doctor Website gives what I feel personally, sound, backed advice which makes the difference than a number set which is admitted to be Arbitrary by the system who even set that rule criteria and number, for goodness sake, one number makes or breaks a person to be pre or diabetic, the system should be ashamed of itself, one number means thousands become clients to the pharmas and they continue to make millions, so really Diabetes is here to say, they dont want us to get well, there is too much business to be lost....so medically supported information and rules are vitally important and not just set numbers at whim and random as currently in place. 1998 one could be normal non diabetic, as their testing would not be over 140mg/dl
now 2017, because the numbers lowered to 100mg/dl they are diabetic, think about this................????

Mallorca
 
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Pinkorchid

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Cutting back drastically on saturated fats has improved my cardiac performance by a large margin. There's a good chance I wouldn't be alive today if I hadn't. If you have any credible evidence that this caused my diabetes I'd love to see it.
If it works for you there is nothing wrong with it. We are all different and can only speak for our self when it comes to what suits us
 
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Pinkorchid

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Have you been eating lots of healthy fruit?
The high fructose that leads to fatty liver disease and Type 2 through an increase in insulin resistance.
I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "cardiac performance" either. Has it improved after cutting back on sat fat? How measured.. I am genuinely interested although somewhat sceptical.
Why are you sceptical about it the member has said it works for him and that is all that is important
 
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bulkbiker

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Why are you sceptical about it the member has said it works for him and that is all that is important

Because I'm naturally curious about measuring "cardiac performance" ?
And I'm being honest about being sceptical of the diet heart hypothesis.
Trying to educate myself is one of the reasons I come here and I prefer to use real life scenarios to do that rather than reading a study that some random scientist has put together to suit their theory.
Sorry if you have a problem with that.