Difference between Keto and Low Carb - members’ experiences

samcham

Active Member
Messages
35
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
Hello I’ve been sticking to keto for 3 months and although BS readings have been okay I have not felt good. Extremely tired in the mornings and so lacking in energy.
Was trying to keep under 20g of carbs a day. I find it quite restrictive. Then I start to feel miserable and the old need to binge pops into my head.
I use Carb Manager app and i just looked and saw I can change my macros to Low Carb High Fat which will allow 50g of carbs which I think will be much more doable.
I haven’t lost any weight on keto either - I am eating about 1800 cals a day and am satiated
But it just feels a bit miserable and draining.
Anyone got same experiences or any advice?
Newly diagnosed PD even though I prob have been PD for a long time.
Wearing a CGM for next month so am noting all the foods and how I react!
Thanks x
 
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Deleted member 475901

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If you test before then 2 hours after meals you can work out how many carbs your body tolerates.

In my case that was 85g a day but no more than 30g in a meal.
 
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samcham

Active Member
Messages
35
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
If you test before then 2 hours after meals you can work out how many carbs your body tolerates.

In my case that was 85g a day but no more than 30g in a meal.
Thank you this is really helpful. I am also not sure of how high is too high. So a lot of my meals I go up to 6.2 but they are low carb ones. I am still getting the hang of all this. Also just wary that I suffer from disordered eating from being on diets all my life and STILL being overweight and I find losing weight really hard so then I start to do silly things like cut out carbs entirely,, feel miserable, snap and binge. I find this with Keto, I can do it for 3 months then I just snap and binge. So hoping low carb is a bit more gentle but also mindful of my readings. Some weird things I noticed is that sweet potato is a no no for me, yet I can eat one of those Fulfil protein bars and bloods were fine! I guess it is about mining all of this info and taking it from there!
 

Antje77

Oracle
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19,578
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Some weird things I noticed is that sweet potato is a no no for me, yet I can eat one of those Fulfil protein bars and bloods were fine!
Makes sense.
Such a bar has 3 grams of carbs (you need to subtract the polyols, they're not absorbed), sweet potato has some 20 grams of carbs per 100 grams.
 

filly

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1,900
Type of diabetes
Type 2
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Spicy food which is too hot. Nasty people who have no idea on your life journey but feel the need to comment and be cruel.
I have Keto days and carnivore days.

Sounds crazy but also have to keep an eye on calories as well. Between 800-1200 a day.
I am pretty inactive right now so towards 800 better.
Even if carbs low, if I over eat a bit don't lose.
I guess if you are active you have much more lee way.
Best of luck
 

Oldvatr

Expert
Messages
8,470
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Hello I’ve been sticking to keto for 3 months and although BS readings have been okay I have not felt good. Extremely tired in the mornings and so lacking in energy.
Was trying to keep under 20g of carbs a day. I find it quite restrictive. Then I start to feel miserable and the old need to binge pops into my head.
I use Carb Manager app and i just looked and saw I can change my macros to Low Carb High Fat which will allow 50g of carbs which I think will be much more doable.
I haven’t lost any weight on keto either - I am eating about 1800 cals a day and am satiated
But it just feels a bit miserable and draining.
Anyone got same experiences or any advice?
Newly diagnosed PD even though I prob have been PD for a long time.
Wearing a CGM for next month so am noting all the foods and how I react!
Thanks x
First advice. If you are doing Low carb (either LCHF or Keto) then forget the calories. They are a distraction. Concentrate on the carbs and the fat. I have neither carb counted or calorie counted in my life. and that makes low carb much simpler. I go by the 5% rule. If the carbs per 100g is 5 or less then its good for both keto or LCHF. If it is less than 20% then its ok for LCHF but may need portion control. Above 20% then it becomes more problematic and becomes treats and special occasions.

Second advice is that LC diets need good hydration and also extra salt because if you lose weight then you excrete salt in your wee much more. cutting out veg may increase constipation unless you have other sources of fibre. It is usual to get 'keto flu' in the early days of the diet while your body adjusts to being fat adapted (i.e. switches fuel to lipid energy) If you hover on the borderline between keto and non keto then this will prolong the agony. You can buy ketostix at the pharmacy to see if you are actually in ketosis. I got to the stage where if I had a slice of toast with my breakfast I stopped the keto, and if I left out the toast I went keto. This trick enabled me to control the rate of weight loss so I was not uncomfortable (I lost 8 stone and 8" off my waistband on this plan)

If you are logging 1800 cal but only 20g carbs, then I suspect you are high protein, and this will maintain weight. Use fat as the alternative macro. Believe it or not Fat does not make you fat.
 

Oldvatr

Expert
Messages
8,470
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
One last thought. If you are being athletic and not sedentary, then use fat to supply the energy especially if doing keto. Our bodies have a natural tendency to cannibalism in that if glucose is low, and fat is in short supply, then our bodies scavenge muscle protein to create glucose by gluconeogenesis. This is more a problem for later on since n the early days you will be using up your stored excess in the liver and adipocytes.
 

Lobsang Tsultim

Well-Known Member
Messages
526
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
When I switched to a low-carb diet, I often found it hard to eat more than about 1000 kcal a day, frequently quite a bit less. In fact, I would skip meals because I simply wasn't hungry. The only time I felt lethargic and tired was after eating two steaks on the same day. Eating 1800 kcals a day on only 20kg of carbs sounds like it would be impossible for me.
 
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Deleted member 475901

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These are the values, I aim for the non diabetic ranges now.

I did count carbs very carefully at first but now judge by eye for most meals as I'm only aiming to keep below 135g
 
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KennyA

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Staff Member
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3,007
Type of diabetes
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Hi, I pay no attention to calories whatsoever. I don't count every gram of carb, but as I eat no "carby" foods at all this really means that I'm adding up relatively small amounts - 3+4+5 gms over the day, total intake aimed for is around 20 or so. I've been in ketosis (ie using bodyfat for energy) for almost all of three and a half years now, resulting in a total ~25kg fatloss. latest A1c is 34.

Never had the feelings you describe - if anything I've had increased energy and alertness. Never hungry either.

Overall weight loss has stalled in the last few months - because I'm eating a lot of protein and doing much more exercise I suspect I'm building muscle while still losing bodyfat. Always been a big unit.
 

samcham

Active Member
Messages
35
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
Makes sense.
Such a bar has 3 grams of carbs (you need to subtract the polyols, they're not absorbed), sweet potato has some 20 grams of carbs per 100 grams.
Yes just felt a bit counter intuitive but yes slowly it is all sinking in!! And I do love those Fulfil bars!
 

samcham

Active Member
Messages
35
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
I have Keto days and carnivore days.

Sounds crazy but also have to keep an eye on calories as well. Between 800-1200 a day.
I am pretty inactive right now so towards 800 better.
Even if carbs low, if I over eat a bit don't lose.
I guess if you are active you have much more lee way.
Best of luck
Thank you, I was active, walk 10000 steps a day most days and go to the gym 3 times a week plus sea swimming but had to stop all that the last few weeks due to no energy.
 
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samcham

Active Member
Messages
35
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
First advice. If you are doing Low carb (either LCHF or Keto) then forget the calories. They are a distraction. Concentrate on the carbs and the fat. I have neither carb counted or calorie counted in my life. and that makes low carb much simpler. I go by the 5% rule. If the carbs per 100g is 5 or less then its good for both keto or LCHF. If it is less than 20% then its ok for LCHF but may need portion control. Above 20% then it becomes more problematic and becomes treats and special occasions.

Second advice is that LC diets need good hydration and also extra salt because if you lose weight then you excrete salt in your wee much more. cutting out veg may increase constipation unless you have other sources of fibre. It is usual to get 'keto flu' in the early days of the diet while your body adjusts to being fat adapted (i.e. switches fuel to lipid energy) If you hover on the borderline between keto and non keto then this will prolong the agony. You can buy ketostix at the pharmacy to see if you are actually in ketosis. I got to the stage where if I had a slice of toast with my breakfast I stopped the keto, and if I left out the toast I went keto. This trick enabled me to control the rate of weight loss so I was not uncomfortable (I lost 8 stone and 8" off my waistband on this plan)

If you are logging 1800 cal but only 20g carbs, then I suspect you are high protein, and this will maintain weight. Use fat as the alternative macro. Believe it or not Fat does not make you fat.
Thank you, I hve been tracking myself on carb manager and I am eating 75% of my calories from fat so I dont eat that much protein, I do not eat meat but my protein comes from fish and tofu, and cheese! Maybe I need to forget about the calories for now and just eat a bit more intuitively within that framework you have said re the carbs. I did wonder about whether I keep straddling the keto, low carb thing which is making me feel terrible. Thing is I dont think I can keep up keto and I dont care so much about being in ketosis, I just want to control my blood sugar and potentially lose weight. But also have that balance of enjoying food and not being too punitive (ie triggering disordered eating habits re binging).
 

samcham

Active Member
Messages
35
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
When I switched to a low-carb diet, I often found it hard to eat more than about 1000 kcal a day, frequently quite a bit less. In fact, I would skip meals because I simply wasn't hungry. The only time I felt lethargic and tired was after eating two steaks on the same day. Eating 1800 kcals a day on only 20kg of carbs sounds like it would be impossible for me.
I actually sometimes eat up to 2000 cals a day, olive oil and cheese plays a big part in that! I am quite active also
 

samcham

Active Member
Messages
35
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
These are the values, I aim for the non diabetic ranges now.

I did count carbs very carefully at first but now judge by eye for most meals as I'm only aiming to keep below 135g
Thanks this is helpful. I think I am slowly understanding it all!
 

samcham

Active Member
Messages
35
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
Hi, I pay no attention to calories whatsoever. I don't count every gram of carb, but as I eat no "carby" foods at all this really means that I'm adding up relatively small amounts - 3+4+5 gms over the day, total intake aimed for is around 20 or so. I've been in ketosis (ie using bodyfat for energy) for almost all of three and a half years now, resulting in a total ~25kg fatloss. latest A1c is 34.

Never had the feelings you describe - if anything I've had increased energy and alertness. Never hungry either.

Overall weight loss has stalled in the last few months - because I'm eating a lot of protein and doing much more exercise I suspect I'm building muscle while still losing bodyfat. Always been a big unit.
I think I will stop counting the calories, and just eat the fat and keep carbs as low as possible or at least just get carbs from my green veggies and some nuts. I dont eat meat, but do eat fish, cheese and tofu. I lost 2kg in the first month (so slow which is fine) but then this is month 3 and all of a sudden it has been like my energy just switched off. still eating the same as I was when I started this new way of eating. I have had to stop my gym and swimming just cause I have felt so weak. Re the weight I find it very difficult to lose weight anyway, but I do often lose inches and the weight stays the same. Maybe I need to chuck the scales away as well as it can be very disheartening.
I will keep on keeping on!
 
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AndBreathe

Master
Retired Moderator
Messages
11,375
Type of diabetes
I reversed my Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
I actually sometimes eat up to 2000 cals a day, olive oil and cheese plays a big part in that! I am quite active also
Sam, your name doesn’t help me out, understanding much about you. Are you a chap, or a female personage, and how tall are you roughly?

I am a lady (others may disagree , and 160cm tall. I weigh under 50kg, but still consume 2000-2500 calories a day (haven’t totted up for a while), to maintain weight. Less and I lose.

I know you say you have trouble losing weight, but the calories in versus calories out argument is flawed at best, in my view, and experience.
 
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samcham

Active Member
Messages
35
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
Sam, your name doesn’t help me out, understanding much about you. Are you a chap, or a female personage, and how tall are you roughly?

I am a lady (others may disagree , and 160cm tall. I weigh under 50kg, but still consume 2000-2500 calories a day (haven’t totted up for a while), to maintain weight. Less and I lose.

I know you say you have trouble losing weight, but the calories in versus calories out argument is flawed at best, in my view, and experience.
Hello I need to add my profile pic which will show I am indeed a lady! Hmm this is so interesting, I think I am so trapped in diet culture mindset of CICO all my life. I am 47 perimenopausal, overweight (am 100kg) and 165cm - however I have always been very dense muscle wise / genetically and so I often surprise people when I tell them I am that heavy as I am a size 16 in clothes. I am active generally, walk everywhere, yoga, swim, weights once a week, sea swimming, cycling, dancing. So I think from this I am deffo not eating enough perhaps and it might be an idea to just start to eat more fat?
 

MrsA2

Expert
Messages
5,771
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Forget the scales for a while. Find (or buy) a good strong belt. Note which hole you need. Then eat as low carb as you can, maybe miss the odd meal when you don't feel hungry, walk daily, and watch the holes move. The scales may not move, but your belt will.
 

AndBreathe

Master
Retired Moderator
Messages
11,375
Type of diabetes
I reversed my Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Hello I need to add my profile pic which will show I am indeed a lady! Hmm this is so interesting, I think I am so trapped in diet culture mindset of CICO all my life. I am 47 perimenopausal, overweight (am 100kg) and 165cm - however I have always been very dense muscle wise / genetically and so I often surprise people when I tell them I am that heavy as I am a size 16 in clothes. I am active generally, walk everywhere, yoga, swim, weights once a week, sea swimming, cycling, dancing. So I think from this I am deffo not eating enough perhaps and it might be an idea to just start to eat more fat?
As a matter if interest, does your gym (assuming you use one for weights?) have body composition scales? If they do, that could be really interesting for you.

Weve had a set at.home for several years now and I love them. They measure the various metrics by your feet on the scale plate, but also tiny electrical passage through your hands, via hand grasps. They measure weight, body fat, muscle and visceral fat (around the organs). Those could help you understand if indeed you do carry goodly levels of muscle, but also how much visceral fat we have. For those of us with T2, that can be an important metric.

In the meantime, my steer would be to keep the carbs low, then have good portions of protein (on the proviso your kidneys are fine), rather than going mainline on fats.

A well known GP once said to me, when talking diets, that those with T2 should moderate the carbs to satisfy their blood sugar readings (from finger prick tests), and moderate their fats to satisfy the bathroom scales.

to be clear, I’m absolutely not advocating a low fat diet, or even any low fat products, but really to ensure you are having adequate protein to maintain your muscle mass when trimming up. When we lose weight, it is easier for our bodies to metabolise muscle than fat, so we need to be mindful of maintaining it.

I hope that hasn’t confused you too much but it’s early morning here, before what could be a busy day, but I wanted to respond Before cracking on.