Disappointing Evening

DavidGrahamJones

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An endocrinologist from a local hospital gave a talk at a local village hall entitled "A diabetes overview". I was interested in what he might say and I'm always learning things from different sources.

I learned that 1 in 3 type II diabetics take insulin, something I hadn't realised and I'm still surprised at the number. He also added that between 10 and 20 years all type 2 diabetics will be on insulin, it is a progressive disease. As I've just passed my 21st anniversary I must be doing something right. At the end of his talk the one word he hadn't mentioned was "carbohydrate". Sugar, obesity, exercise, diet, they were all there, but not a word about carbs. I held my tongue and let others (50 people in audience) ask questions. Interestingly there were several people who were pre diabetic and all were wanting to know how not to progress to type 2, after all, he had made a point of saying that it was a progressive disease. His answer was to lose weight, not such a bad idea, except several of the questioners were quite obviously not carrying too much in the way of excess fat.

I thought now was a good time to ask what I thought was a carefully worded question, I didn't want to be a smart **** and offend him. I said "If NICE guidelines suggest that 1/3 of our calories come from carbs, which convert to glucose, and type II diabetics aren't producing enough insulin or are insulin resistant, why don't we tell type II diabetics to eat less carbs". He just said "It's a contentious issue because there hasn't been enough research". So you can see why I was disappointed, but what did I expect.

The interesting thing was that my suggestion to lower carbs, even after I explained what a difference it had made to me, didn't raise an eyelid, even those who were quite obviously aware of the progress of the disease and wanted to know how to slow things down.

Perhaps I should have used another tactic. It's very obvious that members of this forum have a more open approach to caring for themselves.
 

mike@work

Well-Known Member
Messages
296
Type of diabetes
Type 1
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Insulin
An endocrinologist from a local hospital gave a talk at a local village hall entitled "A diabetes overview". I was interested in what he might say and I'm always learning things from different sources.

I learned that 1 in 3 type II diabetics take insulin, something I hadn't realised and I'm still surprised at the number. He also added that between 10 and 20 years all type 2 diabetics will be on insulin, it is a progressive disease. As I've just passed my 21st anniversary I must be doing something right. At the end of his talk the one word he hadn't mentioned was "carbohydrate". Sugar, obesity, exercise, diet, they were all there, but not a word about carbs. I held my tongue and let others (50 people in audience) ask questions. Interestingly there were several people who were pre diabetic and all were wanting to know how not to progress to type 2, after all, he had made a point of saying that it was a progressive disease. His answer was to lose weight, not such a bad idea, except several of the questioners were quite obviously not carrying too much in the way of excess fat.

I thought now was a good time to ask what I thought was a carefully worded question, I didn't want to be a smart **** and offend him. I said "If NICE guidelines suggest that 1/3 of our calories come from carbs, which convert to glucose, and type II diabetics aren't producing enough insulin or are insulin resistant, why don't we tell type II diabetics to eat less carbs". He just said "It's a contentious issue because there hasn't been enough research". So you can see why I was disappointed, but what did I expect.

The interesting thing was that my suggestion to lower carbs, even after I explained what a difference it had made to me, didn't raise an eyelid, even those who were quite obviously aware of the progress of the disease and wanted to know how to slow things down.

Perhaps I should have used another tactic. It's very obvious that members of this forum have a more open approach to caring for themselves.

Sorry to say, but ingratitude is the world's reward...:(
But nice to see, you are thinking about us in a case like this :)
 

shelley262

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Unbelievable how a specialist can sweep away any alternatives with a not enough evidence comment! Low carb clearly still has to grow mainly from bottom up - with all of us providing the evidence by not progressing and in many cases going in to remission by following a LCHF way of eating. Hug though for you having a dispiriting evening.
 

Emile_the_rat

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Type 1.5
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Insulin
Well there isn’t any secret that reducing carbs help to stale the progression of type 2. You’re absolutily right. Many 2 type diabetics have to start on insulin, but it does not mean that all of them do.

Good to hear you take care, and sad to hear a specialist be that biased and closed minded.
 
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PenguinMum

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Sadly it isnt just Endocs who wont entertain it. A couple of people we know recently mentioned they were T2. I said I manage mine by not eating sugar or starches since diagnosed. Raised eyebrows and superiority I was shot down with comments such as the doctor never said anything about that, wasnt that the Atkins diet that was so bad for everyone, its not sustainable to have meals without bread or potatoes (rice or pasta).
I think its a hard sell off the forum because people think they know better.
 
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Emma_369

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874
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As only recently diagnosed I’ve found the lack of solid advise from the medical profession quite alarming. Without this forum I would be doing it all wrong and at 33 it’s a scary thought (for me) at the prospect of insulin any time soon. I haven’t had my first Hba1c test yet but my meter shows low carb works. So I also hope the endo was incorrect in his 10-20 years all type 2’s need insulin as I would love to think I can control this illness without insulin for longer than that
 

DavidGrahamJones

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Type 2
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But nice to see, you are thinking about us in a case like this

The title of his talk was lacking in detail. That being it was specifically for type II.

It's quite strange that the likes of Jamie Oliver and Hugh Fearnley Whittingstall can campaign against sugar and everybody is on board with that. Even last night people were interested in whether they should be looking at sugar content, not even considering carbs.
 
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JohnEGreen

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I think that Endos and other medical professionals are as prone to cognitive dissonance as any of us. That is holding two or more contradictory beliefs at one time that is T2 is a disease of life style and that it is progressive and there is nothing we can do about it so we all will eventually be on insulin.
 

mike@work

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296
Type of diabetes
Type 1
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The title of his talk was lacking in detail. That being it was specifically for type II.

Yup - understood that already from the content of your writing... I see "us" as the whole forum...

The title of his talk was lacking in detail. That being it was specifically for type II.

It's quite strange that the likes of Jamie Oliver and Hugh Fearnley Whittingstall can campaign against sugar and everybody is on board with that. Even last night people were interested in whether they should be looking at sugar content, not even considering carbs.

The sad truth is, that not too many people understand the similarity between sugar and carbs, unfortunately. Some doesn't even know that there are sugars instead of only sugar.
I sadly don't think it would matter, even if you try to get the message through with some help from Oliver. This way of thinking, that you are taking carbs into account, is not yet "in" - we can only hope it will soon be. But for that to happen, we are also obliged to try to get the message heard, and there we DO have had some success lately. I think and hope times will change...
And I don't underestimate your good but maybe a bit cautious try to get your voice heard. You did surely sow some seed, and that's what counts.
 
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lucylocket61

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If I had a £1 every time i had to explain to someone what carbs are, I would be rich by now : (

even my DN didnt understand until i told her, after printing off stuff off here to give her to read. Previously she insisted that carbs were not sugars and didnt affect blood levels. Fortunately, partly helped by my results, she is now a keen advocate of low carbing, and explaining what carbs are. But she said, last time i saw her, that nearly all her patients still wont listen.
 

Guzzler

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The Endocrinologist was right. Follow his advice and step onto the NHS Pathway and in twenty years you may very well be on strong antidiabetes drugs and/or insulin.

The man has stripped away hope, wasted an opportunity and probably convinced some people that insulin therapy is a fait accompli. No wonder it was a disappointing evening for you.
 
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Bluetit1802

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I am an educated intelligent woman, yet I reached the age of 65 before I learned (from this forum) that carbohydrate converts to glucose. Of course I knew about sugar, cakes, biscuits, chocolate and so on, but really had little knowledge of what carbs were. Had I never found this forum I would still be eating starchy stuff. I didn't even know that T2 and obesity are linked as the media hadn't cottoned on to this at that time. We on this forum are but a tiny minority of T2s out there, so it is not surprising that a third of T2s are on insulin.
 

Krystyna23040

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I am an educated intelligent woman, yet I reached the age of 65 before I learned (from this forum) that carbohydrate converts to glucose. Of course I knew about sugar, cakes, biscuits, chocolate and so on, but really had little knowledge of what carbs were. Had I never found this forum I would still be eating starchy stuff. I didn't even know that T2 and obesity are linked as the media hadn't cottoned on to this at that time. We on this forum are but a tiny minority of T2s out there, so it is not surprising that a third of T2s are on insulin.
You have just described me. It has been a revelation that carbs convert to sugars. I was a T2 on insulin and was told by a doctor at our regional hospital that I was deluding myself if I thought that by cutting carbs I could halt the progression of my diabetes or even reverse some of the horrible stuff that was happening to my eyes and feet. In fact he said that things would just get worse and worse.

How wrong can someone be. Thank goodness for this forum.
 

kokhongw

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2,394
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I reversed my Type 2
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Diet only
I thought now was a good time to ask what I thought was a carefully worded question, I didn't want to be a smart **** and offend him

Yes...often we do not want to come across as offensive...unfortunately...T2D itself is not so forgiving to those who are not carbs aware. That is why we are saddled with this global pandemic.
 

Mr_Pot

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,573
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Yup - understood that already from the content of your writing... I see "us" as the whole forum...



The sad truth is, that not too many people understand the similarity between sugar and carbs, unfortunately. Some doesn't even know that there are sugars instead of only sugar.
I sadly don't think it would matter, even if you try to get the message through with some help from Oliver. This way of thinking, that you are taking carbs into account, is not yet "in" - we can only hope it will soon be. But for that to happen, we are also obliged to try to get the message heard, and there we DO have had some success lately. I think and hope times will change...
And I don't underestimate your good but maybe a bit cautious try to get your voice heard. You did surely sow some seed, and that's what counts.
Jamie Oliver talks the talk, but it doesn't seem to affect his recipes.
https://www.jamieoliver.com/christmas/collection/christmas-desserts/
 

Flora123

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Messages
1,078
Type of diabetes
Type 2
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Tablets (oral)
its not sustainable to have meals without bread or potatoes (rice or pasta).

. What is the obsession with potatoes, rice, bread and pasta?! So incredible that they think that and a bit sad ..

Edited to add sorry Pengimum. I’ve made a mess of copying the quote and realise it wasn’t you who said that.
 
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KK123

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3,967
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Type 1
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. What is the obsession with potatoes, rice, bread and pasta?! So incredible that they think that and a bit sad ..

Edited to add sorry Pengimum. I’ve made a mess of copying the quote and realise it wasn’t you who said that.

Whoever said it, it is strange isn't it? I love bread (I'm an addict I know) but potatoes, bread and pasta used to be used simply to pad out what else was available I think. Only ever used as an accompaniment like rice. Now it appears to be the main attraction.