Disappointing Evening

Smallbrit · Nov 29, 2018

I'm really confused by all this, as so far, I haven't met anyone in real life who has not been supportive of me following a low carb way of eating as a way to combat this. Friends have been happy to accept what I'm doing and generally know the relationship between carbs/sugar or just don't query it. My (US-based) midwives/nutritionists/ob-gyns/people involved with one hospital gestational diabetes birth/one birth centre, all-natural birth were all vehemently pro carb counting and eating to a meter.

My diabetic nurse here in Wales was completely indifferent to anything other than eating 'healthily' but only really stated that this meant less cake.

My GP, who took over, has been all for it "as long as it is sustainable" for me (the implication that you can't keep on this forever).

Have I just been living under a rock?

I've met exactly one person who has queried what I am doing: I was at a party and my father kept offering me biscuits (he knows better, but his hospitality gene wins out) and I refused, saying I was diabetic. Another lady, mid-40s maybe, said that her father was diabetic. "But he's type 2." (So obviously, biscuits were just fine for him...). She looked a bit puzzled when I said I was also type 2.

Mr_Pot · Nov 29, 2018

Flora123 said:
What is the obsession with potatoes, rice, bread and pasta?!

Those foods are called "staples" for a reason. They have no doubt been the main part of most people's meals since childhood. I don't eat them myself but I can understand that being told to give them up is seen as too radical a step for many, especially those on a very limited budget. Giving up sweets, desserts, cakes etc is more acceptable as those things have always been considered a luxury rather than a necessity.

Resurgam · Nov 29, 2018

Detecting that starch is converted to glucose was the first experiment the class did in Biology - we were 11 years old .
That Atkins is bad seems to be something which some people are desperate to teach - but they cannot do an experiment to prove that one.

Yai · Nov 29, 2018

Emma_369 said:
That’s brilliant! And the sort of diabetic journey that makes me believe it’s achievable!

25 years for me since diagnosis. Take metformin but no other medication, and since I discovered these helpful people on this forum, I have lost weight and hugely reduced HbA1c through low-carb. Anyone who tells me type 2 is progressive will be told something back!

PenguinMum · Nov 29, 2018

Just come back from lunch with an old friend who had a recent hospital stay. The next ward was full of people in wheelchairs missing various lower limbs. When she asked the nurse why there were so many bad accident cases the nurse said they were all Diabetics. My friend was stunned. I expect they were badly advised and told it was progressive so carried on eating wrongly in the face of the inevitible. It is just so tragic.

Boo1979 · Nov 29, 2018

22 years for me. Apart from the first 3 months (when I was on insulin) I have taken Gliclazide throughout, the only Medication ‘progression” being the halving of my dose to the minimum level. I have effectvley low carbed throughout but brought the level of carbs down further rather than accept any new medication on the 3 occasions when things have “progressed” (i.e when control has become harder to achieve)

JAT1 · Nov 29, 2018

This forum has helped me immensely, more than any other source of information on diabetes. It has given me the courage to follow the diet that is right for me. I'm type 1 and my endo recommends that half of what I eat should be starch. I'm not low carb - about 150 to 200 per day but no starch. She considers me on a very low dose and wonders why I don't take more. She actually wanted to give me meds to increase my blood sugar ! My hba1c was 4.5% at the end of August. I insisted "no meds absolutely". She asked me what I eat for breakfast in a suspicious way. So I started to tell her and I noticed her face was stern so at the end of my list I lied and said "and toast". She looked so relieved. Pretty pathetic if you are obliged to lie to your doctor, but she's the one who gives me my prescription for insulin so I'll keep her happy.

Emma_369 · Nov 29, 2018

@ianpspurs theres been 3 comments on this thread with people successfully managing diabetes for over 20yrs with diet seeming to play the main part - just thought I’d tag you in it as know that’s something you were looking for on another thread

shelley262 · Nov 29, 2018

PenguinMum said:
Just come back from lunch with an old friend who had a recent hospital stay. The next ward was full of people in wheelchairs missing various lower limbs. When she asked the nurse why there were so many bad accident cases the nurse said they were all Diabetics. My friend was stunned. I expect they were badly advised and told it was progressive so carried on eating wrongly in the face of the inevitible. It is just so tragic.

Hug for the horrific thought of all those, I would think mainly avoidable, amputations it’s shocking.

shelley262 · Nov 29, 2018

JAT1 said:
This forum has helped me immensely, more than any other source of information on diabetes. It has given me the courage to follow the diet that is right for me. I'm type 1 and my endo recommends that half of what I eat should be starch. I'm not low carb - about 150 to 200 per day but no starch. She considers me on a very low dose and wonders why I don't take more. She actually wanted to give me meds to increase my blood sugar ! My hba1c was 4.5% at the end of August. I insisted "no meds absolutely". She asked me what I eat for breakfast in a suspicious way. So I started to tell her and I noticed her face was stern so at the end of my list I lied and said "and toast". She looked so relieved. Pretty pathetic if you are obliged to lie to your doctor, but she's the one who gives me my prescription for insulin so I'll keep her happy.

Hug for shock that she wanted to give you meds to increase your blood sugars so presumably you could then need to take more insulin!

shelley262 · Nov 29, 2018

My mum is also an inspirational story even though she has developed some complications over the last 28 years. Diagnosed at 60 she managed her diabetes through diet for about 10 years - not low carb but she dosent eat large amounts so just ate a lot less which inevitably reduced her carbs and has remained relatively trim. She then moved on to Metformin 2 a day and successfully kept her hbaca1 in the 40s for her 70s and early 80s. However, her hbaca1 crept up about three years ago to mid 50s and clearly her little carb binges - crumpets and m and s trifles! - were damaging as her kidney function got worse and was causing concern. However since following me on the LCHF way of eating in recent months her hbaca1 last month was an amazing 35 down from 55 and guess what her kidney deterioration has stopped! Shows that even at 88 and with some complications you can stop that progression to insulin. Gives me the faith and incentive to keep going. Not that I need it as feel so well and love this way of eating.

PenguinMum · Nov 29, 2018

@shelley262 she gives me faith and incentive to carry on too. My own late mother was coeliac from middle age so had to have different starches (bread and wheat products). When she was dx Diabetic I sent her a book (I think it was Dr David Cavan?) explainin* the effect of all starches. She read it and got angry about it because she had already changed her main starch to gluten free and felt she couldnt cope with any more restrictions. She reduced her potato intake. So @Mr_Pot I agree about people not being able to get their head around not eating the staples especially bread and potatoes. If the doctor had told my mother she was allergic to all starches she would have stopped them.
She died from sepsis after a simple gum infection but her BG was through the roof.

kokhongw · Nov 29, 2018

shelley262 said:
Hug for the horrific thought of all those, I would think mainly avoidable, amputations it’s shocking.

Yes. It was a year long struggle to save my father's leg from amputation as his foot turn gangrenous. A couple of toe amputation, and vascular surgery...it was too much for him in the end as his liver, kidney and heart gave way...

As Dr Jason Fung aptly puts it. "Our low carb knowledge is hard won."

I find it truly tragic that many of those who could make a difference chose to disregard and simply dismiss it.

ianpspurs · Nov 29, 2018

Emma_369 said:
@ianpspurs theres been 3 comments on this thread with people successfully managing diabetes for over 20yrs with diet seeming to play the main part - just thought I’d tag you in it as know that’s something you were looking for on another thread

Thanks @Emma_369 That is just what I wanted to hear - love it.

ianpspurs · Nov 29, 2018

Yai said:
25 years for me since diagnosis. Take metformin but no other medication, and since I discovered these helpful people on this forum, I have lost weight and hugely reduced HbA1c through low-carb. Anyone who tells me type 2 is progressive will be told something back!

Hallelujah - that is all I needed to know in a different thread. Thanks so much @Yai

JohnEGreen · Nov 29, 2018

I'm a Catholic I just extended lent a little bit well by 320 days to be exact.

Lowcarb 2 · Nov 29, 2018

DavidGrahamJones said:
An endocrinologist from a local hospital gave a talk at a local village hall entitled "A diabetes overview". I was interested in what he might say and I'm always learning things from different sources.

I learned that 1 in 3 type II diabetics take insulin, something I hadn't realised and I'm still surprised at the number. He also added that between 10 and 20 years all type 2 diabetics will be on insulin, it is a progressive disease. As I've just passed my 21st anniversary I must be doing something right. At the end of his talk the one word he hadn't mentioned was "carbohydrate". Sugar, obesity, exercise, diet, they were all there, but not a word about carbs. I held my tongue and let others (50 people in audience) ask questions. Interestingly there were several people who were pre diabetic and all were wanting to know how not to progress to type 2, after all, he had made a point of saying that it was a progressive disease. His answer was to lose weight, not such a bad idea, except several of the questioners were quite obviously not carrying too much in the way of excess fat.

I thought now was a good time to ask what I thought was a carefully worded question, I didn't want to be a smart **** and offend him. I said "If NICE guidelines suggest that 1/3 of our calories come from carbs, which convert to glucose, and type II diabetics aren't producing enough insulin or are insulin resistant, why don't we tell type II diabetics to eat less carbs". He just said "It's a contentious issue because there hasn't been enough research". So you can see why I was disappointed, but what did I expect.

The interesting thing was that my suggestion to lower carbs, even after I explained what a difference it had made to me, didn't raise an eyelid, even those who were quite obviously aware of the progress of the disease and wanted to know how to slow things down.

Perhaps I should have used another tactic. It's very obvious that members of this forum have a more open approach to caring for themselves.

I believe he is right in saying it's a progressive disease as I have been type two for just two years a little overweight at the start but have followed a low-carb diet from the outset and in the past 10 weeks have been unable to stabilize my sugars through no fault of my own - my Dr upped my medication every two weeks to no avail and as of last Friday am now insulin dependant

Boo1979 · Nov 29, 2018

Mr_Pot said:
Jamie Oliver talks the talk, but it doesn't seem to affect his recipes.
https://www.jamieoliver.com/christmas/collection/christmas-desserts/

His nutritional info is flawed too the recipe below says it contains 0 carbs and 0.3g sugar per serving ( not sure that combination is even possible ) also the cornflour adds 5.5g carbs into the whole dish (so 1.4g per serving ) all on its own
https://www.jamieoliver.com/recipes/turkey-recipes/food-allergy-mums-gravy/

briped · Nov 29, 2018

JAT1 said:
So I started to tell her and I noticed her face was stern so at the end of my list I lied and said "and toast". She looked so relieved.

masonap · Nov 30, 2018

DavidGrahamJones said:
An endocrinologist from a local hospital gave a talk at a local village hall entitled "A diabetes overview". I was interested in what he might say and I'm always learning things from different sources.

I learned that 1 in 3 type II diabetics take insulin, something I hadn't realised and I'm still surprised at the number. He also added that between 10 and 20 years all type 2 diabetics will be on insulin, it is a progressive disease. As I've just passed my 21st anniversary I must be doing something right. At the end of his talk the one word he hadn't mentioned was "carbohydrate". Sugar, obesity, exercise, diet, they were all there, but not a word about carbs. I held my tongue and let others (50 people in audience) ask questions. Interestingly there were several people who were pre diabetic and all were wanting to know how not to progress to type 2, after all, he had made a point of saying that it was a progressive disease. His answer was to lose weight, not such a bad idea, except several of the questioners were quite obviously not carrying too much in the way of excess fat.

I thought now was a good time to ask what I thought was a carefully worded question, I didn't want to be a smart **** and offend him. I said "If NICE guidelines suggest that 1/3 of our calories come from carbs, which convert to glucose, and type II diabetics aren't producing enough insulin or are insulin resistant, why don't we tell type II diabetics to eat less carbs". He just said "It's a contentious issue because there hasn't been enough research". So you can see why I was disappointed, but what did I expect.

The interesting thing was that my suggestion to lower carbs, even after I explained what a difference it had made to me, didn't raise an eyelid, even those who were quite obviously aware of the progress of the disease and wanted to know how to slow things down.

Perhaps I should have used another tactic. It's very obvious that members of this forum have a more open approach to caring for themselves.

I'm type 2, have been for about 20 years, and I started using insulin almost 3 years ago. I stopped my metformin recently, I never understood what it was doing for me anyway (and I never had any of the side effects that a lot of people report).
For me insulin is great, yes its a pain sometimes to test and inject, often it isn't 'convenient' either but I just get on with it. I changed my diet at the same time I started injecting by going 'low carb'. I've never tried actually counting my carbs but it was easy(ish) cutting out bread, rice, potatoes, pasta, and anything that is obviously made from flour and/or sugar. I have lost 3 stone in weight and I've raised my activity levels, and so as a result I've also cut down dramatically on the number of units of insulin that I now inject. I'm happy injecting insulin, I wish I didn't have to buts hey that's life!

Disappointing Evening

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