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Do you think that pre-diabetes is not diabetes

HICHAM_T2

HICHAM_T2

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,447
Location
Morocco
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
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hi there
I have already asked a similar question, but I did not find a convincing answer
Do you not think there is a mistake in this label pre diabetes


I think that there is no pre-diabetes, either you are not sick or you are a patient may be determined by the doctor by how many carbs your body can manage
When you have a problem managing glucose, it means you are not a healthy person
Do you think that pre-diabetes is not diabetes
I wish I could find someone here who tells me you're wrong and that I have the opposite of what I'm saying
 
Last edited:
HICHAM_T2 said:
hi there
I have already asked a similar question, but I did not find a convincing answer
Do you not think there is a mistake in this label pre diabetes


I think that there is no pre-diabetes, either you are not sick or you are a patient may be determined by the doctor by how many carbs your body can manage
Do you think that pre-diabetes is not diabetes
Click to expand...
I say it's a middle zone for lab tests that include those slightly higher results than expected in a non-diabetic and slightly lower results than expected in a diabetic.
The final diagnosis of DM or not should then be based on other tests and symptoms of the patient in front of the clinician.
Maybe CGM would be a good way to determine if someone is or isn't.
After all fasting glucose tests are only that moment in time, and results can depend on what to had to eat the previous day.
A1c can be altered over just a few days or weeks not the 3 months that the medics like to state.
From a laboratory perspective (I've worked in one doing these tests for many years) it's a buffer zone to see if altering diet, getting over an illness etc (you can name endless variables) will change the results.
It's why we have normal/abnormal 'ranges' rather than 1 figure.
 
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HICHAM_T2 said:
I wish I could find someone here who tells me you're wrong and that I have the opposite of what I'm saying
Click to expand...
My GP at the time marked me down as having borderline diabetes and to control it by diet. I had glucose tests every three months until I was upgraded to T2 four and a bit years ago.

So "I think" pre diabetes is just a politically correct version of borderline diabetes.
 
Tipetoo said:
My GP at the time marked me down as having borderline diabetes and to control it by diet. I had glucose tests every three months until I was upgraded to T2 four and a bit years ago.

So "I think" pre diabetes is just a politically correct version of borderline diabetes.
Click to expand...
The rate of diabetes should be determined by a percentage of glucose according to the body's tolerance to glucose
 
HICHAM_T2 said:
may be determined by the doctor by how many carbs your body can manage
Click to expand...
There is no doctor in the world with enough time to do all the testing to determine how many carbs someone can manage. Especially if you take into account that amount is differerent depending on time of day, time of month (at least in women), amount of sleep, stress, amount of exercise and a hundred other things.
How would you expect a doctor to tell you how many carbs you can handle?
 
The way I see it,
Type 2 diabetes is a disease marked by Disordered metabolism of carbs, (which spans a wide spectrum from mildly to massively disordered) and higher than optimal levels of sugar in the blood as a consequence. The high level of sugar causes a whole lot of organ, tissue and wider system damage, generally speaking the higher the level of blood sugar, the greater damage.
For many medical problems its easy to have “ youve got it” or “you havnt got it” categories with objective criteria - broken legs, a specific bacterial infection etc - but with many others like diabetes it isnt
The higher the level of sugar in your blood the greater the risk of damage, so medics create a category of diabetes as a way of saying “with blood sugars that routinely exceeds this level, the risk of developing problems ( complications etc) is unacceptably high. By the same token, the category of prediabetes is created to say “ with blood sugars in this range, the risk is moderate” and the non diabetic category is created as a way of saying “ with blood sugars in this range, the risk is low/ absent
 
HICHAM_T2 said:
hi there
I have already asked a similar question, but I did not find a convincing answer
Do you not think there is a mistake in this label pre diabetes


I think that there is no pre-diabetes, either you are not sick or you are a patient may be determined by the doctor by how many carbs your body can manage
When you have a problem managing glucose, it means you are not a healthy person
Do you think that pre-diabetes is not diabetes
I wish I could find someone here who tells me you're wrong and that I have the opposite of what I'm saying
Click to expand...
I have come to the conclusion that the term 'Pre-Diabetes' is akin to saying "A woman is slightly pregnant"
My position is predicated on the fact that, Too much Insulin is the genesis of the problem of T2DM, and it is the resistance to this high insulin levels that the body has had to resort to, in order to protect itself from damage, which means the insulin effectively is not doing its normal function, of driving glucose away from the blood, that then causes the high blood sugar.

This condition is due to metabolic dysregulation, Insulin is no longer doing its normal work and as a result more and more insulin is called upon to do its normal function.(hyperinsulinemia)
After a while this increased insulin will not even work to drive the glucose into the liver, It is then that, should the glucose value in the blood reach a diagnostic threshold, a definitive diagnosis of T2DM is then made.

So the term pre-diabetes is a misnomer, since the problem is the Insulin that is no longer doing its work, whether in the disease condition of so called Pre-diabetes or T2DM.
 
Antje77 said:
There is no doctor in the world with enough time to do all the testing to determine how many carbs someone can manage. Especially if you take into account that amount is differerent depending on time of day, time of month (at least in women), amount of sleep, stress, amount of exercise and a hundred other things.
How would you expect a doctor to tell you how many carbs you can handle?
Click to expand...
how about OTTG testing This can not it
 
Boo1979 said:
The way I see it,
Type 2 diabetes is a disease marked by Disordered metabolism of carbs, (which spans a wide spectrum from mildly to massively disordered) and higher than optimal levels of sugar in the blood as a consequence. The high level of sugar causes a whole lot of organ, tissue and wider system damage, generally speaking the higher the level of blood sugar, the greater damage.
For many medical problems its easy to have “ youve got it” or “you havnt got it” categories with objective criteria - broken legs, a specific bacterial infection etc - but with many others like diabetes it isnt
The higher the level of sugar in your blood the greater the risk of damage, so medics create a category of diabetes as a way of saying “with blood sugars that routinely exceeds this level, the risk of developing problems ( complications etc) is unacceptably high. By the same token, the category of prediabetes is created to say “ with blood sugars in this range, the risk is moderate” and the non diabetic category is created as a way of saying “ with blood sugars in this range, the risk is low/ absent
Click to expand...
Your words seem logical and reasonable But where does the problem start from? I can not believe the word insulin resistance Why Resists Insulin If the cause is obesity, I'm not fat
 
HICHAM_T2 said:
hi there
I have already asked a similar question, but I did not find a convincing answer
Do you not think there is a mistake in this label pre diabetes


I think that there is no pre-diabetes, either you are not sick or you are a patient may be determined by the doctor by how many carbs your body can manage
When you have a problem managing glucose, it means you are not a healthy person
Do you think that pre-diabetes is not diabetes
I wish I could find someone here who tells me you're wrong and that I have the opposite of what I'm saying
Click to expand...
Far as I understand it, prediabetes means you're not handling carbs as well as you should be able to, but not yet to an extent that it causes complications/damage/symptoms. Once a full-blown diabetic though....
 
JoKalsbeek said:
Far as I understand it, prediabetes means you're not handling carbs as well as you should be able to, but not yet to an extent that it causes complications/damage/symptoms. Once a full-blown diabetic though....
Click to expand...
Well we do not disagree so he considered a diabetic with a slight difference
But the disease soon develops
I think when the body fails to manage glucose it means that the cause has appeared to appear For this I suggest diagnosis for per-cent
 
HICHAM_T2 said:
Well we do not disagree so he considered a diabetic with a slight difference
But the disease soon develops
I think when the body fails to manage glucose it means that the cause has appeared to appear For this I suggest diagnosis for per-cent
Click to expand...
I think that pre diabetes is essentially diabetes and we ought to call a spade a spade.
There is a test that would pick it up even sooner which is a Kraft assay named after pathologist called Joseph Kraft who was able to test patients for hyper insulinemia and fairly accurately predict the development of diabetes 10-15 years later. High insulin levels caused by an intolerance of a certain level of carbs leads to insulin resistance and this can lead to the diagnosis of diabetes by the time your body cannot produce enough insulin to keep your HBA1c under 7%. BY this time you could have accumulated some damage.
The insulin test (fasting) isn't as reliable as a blood test and the assay mentioned above is a 5 hour procedure but it seems to me that the focus in type 2 should be on insulin rather than blood glucose and a root cause of the problems.
Perhaps it would be good to know a) that you had a risk of insulin resistance of which diabetes and visceral obesity are only 2 symptoms and b) you could head off the problem at the pass by diet and the right kind of exercise?
 
NicoleC1971 said:
I think that pre diabetes is essentially diabetes and we ought to call a spade a spade.
There is a test that would pick it up even sooner which is a Kraft assay named after pathologist called Joseph Kraft who was able to test patients for hyper insulinemia and fairly accurately predict the development of diabetes 10-15 years later. High insulin levels caused by an intolerance of a certain level of carbs leads to insulin resistance and this can lead to the diagnosis of diabetes by the time your body cannot produce enough insulin to keep your HBA1c under 7%. BY this time you could have accumulated some damage.
The insulin test (fasting) isn't as reliable as a blood test and the assay mentioned above is a 5 hour procedure but it seems to me that the focus in type 2 should be on insulin rather than blood glucose and a root cause of the problems.
Perhaps it would be good to know a) that you had a risk of insulin resistance of which diabetes and visceral obesity are only 2 symptoms and b) you could head off the problem at the pass by diet and the right kind of exercise?
Click to expand...

Kraft's term 'Diabetes in situ' is as you say calling a spade a spade. Pre Diabetes diagnosis marks you as already having a measure of insulin resistance.
 
HICHAM_T2 said:
Your words seem logical and reasonable But where does the problem start from? I can not believe the word insulin resistance Why Resists Insulin If the cause is obesity, I'm not fat
Click to expand...
The cause isn't obesity.
I have had a problem with weight for decades, from my early 20s I was protesting that eating cabs caused problems but my doctors derided the idea and gave me low calorie high carb diets to follow as I was very muscular and so considered overweight when I had a 24 inch waist.
I was dieted into losing muscle mass and gaining fat until eventually I was diagnosed as diabetic, but only after years of being told that all my problems were from overeating.
When I eat low carb I see my waist shrinking even if my weight is not reducing - I have good muscle strength even at 67 years old.
 
Resurgam said:
The cause isn't obesity.
I have had a problem with weight for decades, from my early 20s I was protesting that eating cabs caused problems but my doctors derided the idea and gave me low calorie high carb diets to follow as I was very muscular and so considered overweight when I had a 24 inch waist.
I was dieted into losing muscle mass and gaining fat until eventually I was diagnosed as diabetic, but only after years of being told that all my problems were from overeating.
When I eat low carb I see my waist shrinking even if my weight is not reducing - I have good muscle strength even at 67 years old.
Click to expand...
So far I can not really know whether obesity is the cause of diabetes or whether diabetes is the cause of obesity
 
Since the disease is not determined according to the glucose tolerance
The patient must be given a quantity of carbohydrates should be a combination of different carbohydrates
As an example
If the highest measure of glucose was reached 141.7mg/dl that mean Diabetes 1% if 157mg/dl that mean Diabetes 10% every 1mg/dl = 1.7%
But the experiment must be repeated more than once
 
HICHAM_T2 said:
So far I can not really know whether obesity is the cause of diabetes or whether diabetes is the cause of obesity
Click to expand...

I think you will find that it starts with high insulin caused by intolerance to too many carbs. This eventually causes insulin resistance, fat round the liver and in many people (but not all) obesity. Not everyone is prone to obesity as it depends on how big or small or how many fat cells they have. That is a whole new topic. Later on, the insulin resistance gets worse, which in turn leads to diabetes. This whole process can take many years. The intolerance to too many carbs may well be genetic. Who knows!
 
HICHAM_T2 said:
hi there
I have already asked a similar question, but I did not find a convincing answer
Do you not think there is a mistake in this label pre diabetes


I think that there is no pre-diabetes, either you are not sick or you are a patient may be determined by the doctor by how many carbs your body can manage
When you have a problem managing glucose, it means you are not a healthy person
Do you think that pre-diabetes is not diabetes
I wish I could find someone here who tells me you're wrong and that I have the opposite of what I'm saying
Click to expand...


I think that if you are diagnosed as pre-diabetic, you are at risk of developing the disease and all the negative drawbacks that comes with it. So, I don't believe you have diabetes until your A1C is 7 or higher on 2 or more blood tests taken. I believe that pre-diabetes is a medical warning to change your lifestyle habits and begin taking notice of how much sugar is going into your body and it's time to start monitoring with your doctor on how efficient your insulin is working naturally in your body without the use of medication or prescribed insulin. Once your doctor is able to see through blood testing how well your own insulin is being produced in your body. A preventative plan of action can be put in place before the A1C number gets any higher. I truly believe that following a healthy diet and exercise can reverse pre-diabetic symptoms as well as reversing diabetes even if the disease has progressed for many years.
 
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