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Does LCHF 'clear out' pancreatic fat ?

Discussion in 'Diabetes Discussions' started by Begonia, Dec 9, 2017.

  1. Begonia

    Begonia Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    Prof Roy Taylor's in his twin cycle hypothesis suggests that getting rid of pancreatic fat is key to remission for T2D. This theory also appears to be supported by Dr Jason Fung
    https://idmprogram.com/fatty-pancreas-t2d-9//

    So what is the best way of clearing out the pancreatic fat ?

    LCHF is undoubtedly very effective at keeping blood sugar levels under control (few carbs ingested so little blood sugar response). It is also an eating regime that helps many to lose weight and maintain the weight loss.

    My questions are:

    1. Does eating LCHF help in reducing fat in the pancreas ? (apart from any effect of losing weight)
    2. Does intermittent fasting help in reducing fat in the pancreas ?

    (I'm just trying to understand... not trying to be controversial)


    .
     
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  2. Art Of Flowers

    Art Of Flowers I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Both LCHF and intermittent fasting help the body burn fat and lose weight and is very effective in bringing down high blood sugar levels. Fat around the liver is first to go and eventually fat around the pancreas is removed. I have lost 16 Kg using LCHF and intermittent fasting. Fasting help repair the body using a process called autophagy.
     
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    #2 Art Of Flowers, Dec 9, 2017 at 8:54 AM
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2017
  3. Mbaker

    Mbaker Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    If you lose weight on LCHF or IF then the answer is yes, internal visceral fat goes before the on top layer subcutaneous fat. I love both and combine them. I also like Dr Fung and his directness, suits me to a T.
     
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    #3 Mbaker, Dec 9, 2017 at 9:36 AM
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2017
  4. paulus1

    paulus1 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    a protean sparing fast is used to shrink the liver before bariatric surgery this in reality is lchf. it should do what you want it to do. if he is eight the numbr of type 2s that are remission because of it provesit must.
     
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  5. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Moderator
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  6. paulus1

    paulus1 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    its there as a regulator so i suspect trying to lose it all is perhaps not wise.
     
  7. BrianTheElder

    BrianTheElder Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I find that reducing carbs with LCHF lowers my fasting blood glucose, which is typically around 4.5. But, after a decrease when I first started, I find that my weight has more or less plateaued above where I would want it to be. I am not really sure that weight targets are meaningful if they are based on BMI. I don't know how anyone would be able to tell whether they had liver or pancreatic fat without an MRI scan
     
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  8. Kentoldlady1

    Kentoldlady1 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    This is my conundrum at the moment. I am now in healthy weight ( was very obese) but my bgl has not really changed. I was dx at hbalc 53, my last was 39. But a small amount of extra carbs will send my bgl rocketing.

    My mum, also t2d is thin. And has never been overweight in her life. So I suspect that we have fatty insides that are stubborn to shift! I maybe one of those who would be t2d when thin. A tofi, like mum. Only I was obese as well, so have to lose more for the same effect.

    I am going to keep at the lchf with lower cals for a while longer. I am hoping that as I get down to a lower weight my bgl will improve.

    As most of us have no access to.superscans we can only try it and see.
     
  9. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

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    You may wish to edit your comment regard the words about increased fat around the pancreas.
     
  10. lucylocket61

    lucylocket61 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    or maybe there are other things going on that we dont yet know about. I dont think weight is the only consideration. Perhaps we can get rid of our visceral fat, but still have issues as our pancreas is faulty or damaged in some way. I dont know, just thinking aloud here.
     
  11. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

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    I think this is a matter of Insulin Resistance and of Carbohydrate Intolerance in an individual. This rings true for me when I read of people whose bg levels will spike horribly at 50g of carbs but are at much better levels at 35g (those numbers are just used as an example, I am not advocating a particular number of carbs to set out with).
     
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  12. Biggles2

    Biggles2 · Well-Known Member

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    The other abbreviation in the literature for this is MONW (Metabolically Obese, Normal Weight). You will find a lot of good articles using this search term too.
     
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  13. Mr_Pot

    Mr_Pot Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    For some of us it could just be age related.
     
  14. Daibell

    Daibell LADA · Master

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    Why does Prof Taylor focus so much on visceral fat in the pancreas and liver? All visceral fat can contribute to insulin resistance and the Low-carb diet will help reduce all of it.
     
  15. Bluetit1802

    Bluetit1802 Type 2 (in remission!) · Guru

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    I don't know what his thinking is, but the pancreas and liver work in tandem to keep our blood glucose levels low and stable. If either is clogged with fat, the process won't work.
     
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  16. Daibell

    Daibell LADA · Master

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    I'm sure that's true but is the problem limited to the pancreas and liver? I thought fat deposited in muscle cells was also a problem. He needs to explain why he focuses on just these two organs and whether he should just be focussing on all visceral fat. It gives me little confidence in the ND research.
     
  17. DavidGrahamJones

    DavidGrahamJones Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    BMI and weight may not always reflect the internal fat as demonstrated in a program I saw about 3 brothers, 2 "normal" size, the other one was very obese despite eating pretty much what his brothers did. MRI scans showed that their internal fat was very similar.
     
  18. Begonia

    Begonia Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for all your responses. Just to clarify further what I'm getting at. Suppose an experiment were done in which four cohorts of comparable subjects all lost 15kg of weight but by different diets:

    1. Newcastle diet with shakes
    2. Michael Mosley blood sugar diet (low calorie with real food)
    3. Low Carb High Fat
    4. Intermittent Fasting as well as LCHF

    Would they all be likely to lose the same amount of fat from the pancreas ?

    Just wonder whether there is any science that says one or other diet is more effective at clearing pancreatic fat or is it just a question of the weight loss ?
     
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  19. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Moderator
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    I have seen people take various views on this, but then people always seem to want to promote their chosen way of eating over others.

    Having just has a bit of a rummage, I found this article, which I thought was interesting
    https://www.docsopinion.com/2015/12/08/low-carb-diet-to-treat-non-alcoholic-fatty-liver-disease/

    This is the section that deals with NAFLD. I hope the reference links work. If not, just use the link above to go to the article where the links are live.

    Low-Carb Diet to Treat Non-Alcoholic Fatty Liver Disease – Does It Make Sense?

    Low-carb diets have been in and out of fashion for more than a century. The basis of such a diet is that sugar and carbohydrates should be restricted. The approach usually involves more consumption of fats than is usually recommended.

    Most patients with NAFLD are already insulin resistant. This implies that carbohydrate metabolism is already abnormal, a situation that has been described as carbohydrate intolerance.

    The insulin released after a high carbohydrate meal is necessary to both inhibit glucose output from the liver and to promote glucose uptake by skeletal muscle. The failure of insulin to perform these tasks, as occurs in patients with insulin resistance, will lead to elevated blood sugar.

    If the liver glycogen stores are full, further excess dietary glucose is likely to increase triglyceride accumulation in the liver as liver cells will convert glucose to free fatty acids. Conversely, restricting carbohydrate intake may offload an already broken system, reduce blood sugar spikes and triglyceride accumulation in the liver.

    The Scientific Data

    Most studies addressing the role of dietary intervention for NAFLD have studied the effects of different diets on weight loss, liver biochemistry (transaminases), liver fat content, and insulin resistance.

    Few studies have directly compared different diets for the treatment of NAFLD. Some of them show similar results with calorie restricted low-carb and low-fat diets while other suggest that low-carb diets are more effective.

    One randomized trial, with 170 overweight adults showed equal reductions in liver fat, liver transaminases, visceral fat, body weight and insulin resistance after 6 months of calorie restricted, low-fat or low-carbohydrate diets respectively (20). Another 3-month study found that low-carbohydrate and low-fat diets reduced liver transaminases and insulin resistance to a similar degree (21).

    A small study showed that calorie restricted low-carb and low-fat diets both decreased body weight by approximately 7%. The low-carb diet decreased liver fat significantly more after 48 hours, but the diets led to equal decreases in liver fat after 11 weeks and both diets similarly reduced insulin resistance following weight loss (22).

    A prospective study of patients with insulin resistance showed that a hypocaloric low-carb diet improved liver biochemistry more than a hypocaloric low-fat diet (23).

    Another prospective study followed three groups of patients with type 2 diabetes over 12 months, on one of three diets: American Diabetes Association (60% carbohydrate, 20% fat); low glycemic index (50–55% carbohydrates, 30% fat); or modified Mediterranean diet (35% carbohydrates, 45% high monounsaturated fat). Liver transaminases decreased in all three groups, with the greatest decrease in those on the low-carbohydrate modified Mediterranean diet (24).

    A recently published study showed that implementing a low-carb diet in the primary health care setting led to significant weight loss and improved liver biochemistry and glucose metabolism in patients with metabolic syndrome and abnormal glucose metabolism or raised liver transaminases. Interestingly, improvements in liver biochemistry did not correlate with weight loss. The authors suggest that the improvement in liver biochemistry occurs parallel to weight loss and not necessarily because of it (25).
     
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  20. ickihun

    ickihun Type 2 · Master

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    I only speak from experience low carbing keeps my liver enzymes in check which prevents fatty liver becoming cirrhosis and further permanent damage.

    I personally think type2 is about the liver not pancreas. Just my long standing opinion.
    My liver is constantly packing out glucose and my pancreas cannot keep up.
    Even gliclizide couldnt do It. As it got progressively worse.
    A liver detox which is strict lchf is ideal for say a set period, say 8wk period, for me.

    If I can reduce the fatty liver I believe not as bad on my diabetes.
    I really cannot do severe diets long term without help.

    Maybe bariatric surgery will help with this too. Maybe, if I watch the amounts of carbs in my liquid food, then lumpy food then solid food.
    Lets see!
     
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