DOES LOW CARB HI FAT cause blood sugar spikes

[hooha]

Has anyone expertise on this please? I read that LCHF diet can cause some type 2 persons to react to a Kraft style insulin test with a very low insulin response, type V curve, mimicking the type 1 diabetic response.
Is it that the low carb diet puts the insulin response to sleep, and then if a lot of 'fast ' carbs are eaten, perhaps in a moment or two of weakness, there is a rather hight post prandial blood sugar reading ?
I know that the recommendation before an OGTT is for the person to make sure they eat plenty of carbs for a couple of weeks before the test, to '' reset '' the body reactions.
I wonder if the LCHF is reducing the body's insulin response, and if this is reversible?. ie Going back on a normal carb diet might stop the sugar spikes, but at the price of being generally higher most of the time and having a higher HbA1c .

 

[Zilsniggy]

I wonder if the LCHF is reducing the body's insulin response, and if this is reversible?. ie Going back on a normal carb diet might stop the sugar spikes, but at the price of being generally higher most of the time and having a higher HbA1c .

I'd say the LCHF diet does exactly the opposite, after a while. It should increase insulin sensitivity as weight is lost. Although everyone's carb tolerance is different, just like we all react to our diabetes differently. I'd say it would be a completely normal reaction to spike like mad if you suddenly overload on carbs. And why would you go back on a normal diet at the price of generally higher sugars and A1c? Seems a bit like cutting off your nose to spite your face..........counterproductive, in fact.

 

[Mbaker]

Some with an agenda will pretend that LCHF causes insulin resistance rather than reducing it in the vast majority of cases.

Fast acting carbs will cause most diabetics and non diabetics to spike; it's just that a non diabetic returns to normal readings withing a short time (effectively, hiding the spike).

Some do suffer a phenomenon with dairy causing insulin resistance.

A "normal" diet is anything but, as it is extremely high sugar and over processed.

 

[Mr_Pot]

I think @hooha is probably correct in that having some fast acting carbs whilst on a low carb diet causes more of a spike than it would otherwise. That is why it is recommended to carb up for a few days before an OGTT. However I don't see that in any way diminishes the benefits of a low carb diet, since it is better to have a low BG with an occasional spike due to overindulgence than a constant high level. Just make sure the overindulgences are rare.

 

[Spl@]

Well from that I can say I don't ever want an OGTT.
Eating carbs at normal levels makes me feel like garbage. Just a ham sandwich will have me feeling weird.
No way I'm going back to the old ways.
Anything over 50 a day is a lot. Get into single figures from time to time. Less I have the better I feel.

 

[Circuspony]

I am 54 kg and was given 70g carbs before OGTT. My levels climbed to 19 by the end and I was feeling rough .

You only need one though if your doctors are trying to get an idea as to how well your pancreas is working. Like most things it's a bit of short term discomfort for longer term benefit.

 

[Resurgam]

For a type two, that is the whole point, the pancreas has been hysterical and pumping out insulin when eating a 'normal healthy diet' - it needs to calm down and rest whilst the metabolism sorts itself out, and the body loses some excess fat, if necessary.
Just because it is possible to see the response to a huge dose of sugardoesn't make it advisable, or pleasant to be on the receiving end.

 

[Bluetit1802]

The rule of thumb for an OGTT is to eat at least 130g carbs for 3 days prior. Many of us on this forum have done our own OGTT at home using Rapilose. Some of us did not carb up beforehand. I didn't, except the evening before I had a Sunday roast and ate a few more carbs than normal, but that was it.

 

[hooha]

I think @hooha is probably correct in that having some fast acting carbs whilst on a low carb diet causes more of a spike than it would otherwise. That is why it is recommended to carb up for a few days before an OGTT. However I don't see that in any way diminishes the benefits of a low carb diet, since it is better to have a low BG with an occasional spike due to overindulgence than a constant high level. Just make sure the overindulgences are rare.

Thank you @Mr_Pot you have put the problem very succinctly. Whether to do LCHF and occasional carb splurges and sugar spikes or to to go 'normal diet ' and have generally higher blood sugars with a ' normal ' diet and fewer spikes or less severe spikes when carb indulging

 

[hooha]

I'd say the LCHF diet does exactly the opposite, after a while. It should increase insulin sensitivity as weight is lost. Although everyone's carb tolerance is different, just like we all react to our diabetes differently. I'd say it would be a completely normal reaction to spike like mad if you suddenly overload on carbs. And why would you go back on a normal diet at the price of generally higher sugars and A1c? Seems a bit like cutting off your nose to spite your face..........counterproductive, in fact.

@Zilsniggy hello I am not thinking in terms of sensitivity as such. I am imagining, after seeing the Kraft type V curve of flat insulin response, that the lack of insulin is a result of no carb stimulus. The system rests. Hyperinsulinaemia is no more . Then suddenly carbs come along , when one overindulges, and then there is not enough insulin produced quickly, as it has ' gone to sleep ' - so I am thinking more in terms of a delayed response rather than impaired 'sensitivity ' .

 

[Guzzler]

This, I think, is called carb cycling. Not a great idea for the long term as per the aging process itself will affect metabolism.

 

[Mr_Pot]

Thank you @Mr_Pot you have put the problem very succinctly. Whether to do LCHF and occasional carb splurges and sugar spikes or to to go 'normal diet ' and have generally higher blood sugars with a ' normal ' diet and fewer spikes or less severe spikes when carb indulging

If you were to go with a "normal" diet then there is a danger that you would still occasionally have something high carb as a treat. Treats are something much higher carb than you normally have, so you could end up with the worst of all worlds, a generally higher BG with spikes on top.

 

[hooha]

The rule of thumb for an OGTT is to eat at least 130g carbs for 3 days prior. Many of us on this forum have done our own OGTT at home using Rapilose. Some of us did not carb up beforehand. I didn't, except the evening before I had a Sunday roast and ate a few more carbs than normal, but that was it.

@Bluetit1802 Hi - how did your OGTT come out ? Do you have the numbers, for what one hour, two hours , three? info welcome , as you seem to be similar to me, type 2 in remission;very interesting to see your results as you did not carb up.

 

[bulkbiker]

Hi @hooha
This was what my OGTT looked like without carbing up beforehand...

 

[Bluetit1802]

@Bluetit1802 Hi - how did your OGTT come out ? Do you have the numbers, for what one hour, two hours , three? info welcome , as you seem to be similar to me, type 2 in remission;very interesting to see your results as you did not carb up.

I did my test in September 2017.

It was a bit unfortunate when I did my test because my hormones ran amok between getting up and doing the test. (only 10 minutes at most but I was a nervous wreck!) and my fasting level was 5.9, which is significantly higher than my normal 5.2 average, but had to count as the starting level or it would have been cheating.

15 mins 9.3
30 mins 11.3
45 mins 12.8
60 mins 13.6
75 mins 13.3
90 mins 11.8
105 mins 11.2
120 mins 11.0
135 mins 9.3
150 mins 7.0
165 mins 5.8
180 mins 4.4
ate lunch
lunch + 2 hours 4.8

That appears to have put me in the impaired glucose tolerance range (pre-diabetic)

 

[hooha]

@Bluetit1802 @bulkbiker Thanks for those lists of readings. Lots of finger pricking there, every 15 minutes for 3 to 4 hours. Bluetit1802 your two hour after lunch looks very normal.

 

[Bluetit1802]

@Bluetit1802 @bulkbiker Thanks for those lists of readings. Lots of finger pricking there, every 15 minutes for 3 to 4 hours. Bluetit1802 your two hour after lunch looks very normal.

Yes, you need a lot of strips at the ready.

I reckon it took me longer than 2 hours to get down to normal. What do you call normal?

 

[hooha]

@Bluetit1802 @bulkbiker Thanks for those lists of readings. Lots of finger pricking there, every 15 minutes for 3 to 4 hours. Bluetit1802 your two hour after lunch looks very normal.

@Bluetit1802 @bulkbiker @Brunneria HELLO again. I got lost in these forums, but about half an hour ago or more i came across a similar thread to this, can anyone help me find it ? The members were discussing blood sugar spike after being on low carb and there were some interesting comments about how the pancreas may be used to low carb, even 15-30 grams per day, then if more carbs were taken the pancreas '' took some time '' to catch up. They were discussing their blood spikes and how to wathc it over several days to see if it settled down after introducing ' new food' The main poster said she was monitoring her blood with a freestyle libra. Most interesting for me as I was worried about spikes and diet - sorry can't remember the name of the thread and as I didn't post anything - maybe it's lost for ever. Think the posters were about a year ago . Help if you can . Is there a way to go and check which forums I visited ? I know on my profile / content I can see a list of where I did post a comment , but this time I just surfed on. writing this at 08.26 GMT 0n16 FEB. 19, so i visited my unknown thread about 07.30 to 08.00

 

[Brunneria]

@Bluetit1802 @bulkbiker @Brunneria HELLO again. I got lost in these forums, but about half an hour ago or more i came across a similar thread to this, can anyone help me find it ? The members were discussing blood sugar spike after being on low carb and there were some interesting comments about how the pancreas may be used to low carb, even 15-30 grams per day, then if more carbs were taken the pancreas '' took some time '' to catch up. They were discussing their blood spikes and how to wathc it over several days to see if it settled down after introducing ' new food' The main poster said she was monitoring her blood with a freestyle libra. Most interesting for me as I was worried about spikes and diet - sorry can't remember the name of the thread and as I didn't post anything - maybe it's lost for ever. Think the posters were about a year ago . Help if you can . Is there a way to go and check which forums I visited ? I know on my profile / content I can see a list of where I did post a comment , but this time I just surfed on. writing this at 08.26 GMT 0n16 FEB. 19, so i visited my unknown thread about 07.30 to 08.00

Hi Hooha,
That is information that I cannot access for you.
As an alternative, I suggest that you look through your own browsing history on your computer (or phone, or tablet) and check which pages you have viewed. Since each web browser is slightly different, you could do a Google search for instructions. It isn't a tool I use often myself, so can't give you any guidance.

Alternatively, you could do a Search using the search box on the top right hand corner of the diabetes.co.uk forum pages. The subject is one that comes up quite often, so you may get a few hits, though I don't know if you will rediscover the thread you are looking for. I always find these searches very interesting, since they usually throw up all sorts of nuggets I didn't know to expect. Just keep entering search criteria and follow your nose - that is what I do. The forum is a mine of useful information on soooo many subjects.

 

[bulkbiker]

@Bluetit1802 @bulkbiker @Brunneria HELLO again. I got lost in these forums, but about half an hour ago or more i came across a similar thread to this, can anyone help me find it ? The members were discussing blood sugar spike after being on low carb and there were some interesting comments about how the pancreas may be used to low carb, even 15-30 grams per day, then if more carbs were taken the pancreas '' took some time '' to catch up. They were discussing their blood spikes and how to wathc it over several days to see if it settled down after introducing ' new food' The main poster said she was monitoring her blood with a freestyle libra. Most interesting for me as I was worried about spikes and diet - sorry can't remember the name of the thread and as I didn't post anything - maybe it's lost for ever. Think the posters were about a year ago . Help if you can . Is there a way to go and check which forums I visited ? I know on my profile / content I can see a list of where I did post a comment , but this time I just surfed on. writing this at 08.26 GMT 0n16 FEB. 19, so i visited my unknown thread about 07.30 to 08.00

It was probably a thread about physiological insulin resistance (PIR) maybe try the search box? That at least is what you are describing in excessive reactions to carbs after following a LCHF way of eating.