Does someone want to explain it to a ten year old?

Margarettt

Well-Known Member
Messages
367
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
My diagnosis is almost exactly six months old today and I still don't really know what's going on. It strikes me that I don't really know what diabetes is or what has happened and is happening in my body. I love my keto diet but really don't know how it works or what ketones are. I'm pleased that the numbers on my meter are coming down but to be honest I don't actually know what I am measuring or what they represent. I go back and read old posts to try and learn but get all caught up in terms like visceral fat or synthesising glucose and just end up in a muddle. I know that I'm not stupid just a bit ignorant. I failed biology at school and dropped chemistry so all the science is a bit scary.
If you want to talk about pre-raphaelite symbolism I'm your girl but has anyone got a link that makes diabetes easy to understand?
 

lovinglife

Moderator
Staff Member
Moderator
Messages
5,279
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
My diagnosis is almost exactly six months old today and I still don't really know what's going on. It strikes me that I don't really know what diabetes is or what has happened and is happening in my body. I love my keto diet but really don't know how it works or what ketones are. I'm pleased that the numbers on my meter are coming down but to be honest I don't actually know what I am measuring or what they represent. I go back and read old posts to try and learn but get all caught up in terms like visceral fat or synthesising glucose and just end up in a muddle. I know that I'm not stupid just a bit ignorant. I failed biology at school and dropped chemistry so all the science is a bit scary.
If you want to talk about pre-raphaelite symbolism I'm your girl but has anyone got a link that makes diabetes easy to understand?
To be honest I don’t think you really need to know the science if it’s not your bag - it isn’t mine either, what you are becoming an expert in is YOU! I think in the simplest of terms all you really need to know is what a food does to your BG and if your personally happy with the result - having knowledge in that is the power you don’t always need to know the mechanism.

Think about it, I use loads of stuff everyday- the internet- how that works I’ve no idea but I’ve enough knowledge to be able to use to satisfactorily. No idea of the mechanics of my washer but I know if I don’t put any detergent in the clothes won’t clean too much and my machine foams over, just right amount and I get lovely clean smelling clothes - see where I’m going with this ;)
 

mouseee

Well-Known Member
Messages
739
I like to think of it that our bodies can't process glucose. The glucose wants to get into cells to be used for energy, insulin makes that happen. If our bodies can't use the insulin we make (most T2s still make it) then the glucose can't be used and instead floats around our blood making the the blood sugar go high. Eventually the extra glucose gets stored as fat.

Low carb works because we are reducing the amount of potential glucose needing to be processed. That means less glucose floating round unable to be used and lower bg.

If you take metformin, it acts to help the glucose get into the cells and be used.

This is not a scientific way of describing it, but I think that's how it works! If I'm way off, someone will correct me!
 

KennyA

Moderator
Staff Member
Moderator
Messages
3,482
Type of diabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
My diagnosis is almost exactly six months old today and I still don't really know what's going on. It strikes me that I don't really know what diabetes is or what has happened and is happening in my body. I love my keto diet but really don't know how it works or what ketones are. I'm pleased that the numbers on my meter are coming down but to be honest I don't actually know what I am measuring or what they represent. I go back and read old posts to try and learn but get all caught up in terms like visceral fat or synthesising glucose and just end up in a muddle. I know that I'm not stupid just a bit ignorant. I failed biology at school and dropped chemistry so all the science is a bit scary.
If you want to talk about pre-raphaelite symbolism I'm your girl but has anyone got a link that makes diabetes easy to understand?
Pre-raphaelite symbolism is much more interesting.

I don't know of any simple guide to diabetes, apart from the untruths in 98% of media stories about T2.

I think one of the problems is that the disease is named after one of its symptoms. So the disease is "sugar in the urine/sweet siphon" and the symptom is also ...er.... sugar in the urine. It doesn't help that the medical view is that there are a number of hypotheses about what might cause the problem in the first place. These are described in the current (5th) edition of Bilous and Donnelly. talks about "insulin resistance, (or more correctly diminished insulin sensitivity) precedes the onset of diabetes".

However they also list genetics, impaired beta cell function, the thrifty phenotype syndrome, hormones and cytokines, inflammation, and metabolic syndrome as things that varoous researchers have at various times claimed to be associated with the development of T2. In short - they don't know what causes it, but have some ideas about what might. The conclusion to this section says:

Both insulin resistance and β cell dysfunction are early features of glucose intolerance and type 2 diabetes. There has been much debate as to whether one is the primary defect that precedes the other. In practice, the contribution of insulin resistance and β cell dysfunction varies considerably between patients, as well as during the course of the disease. Usually, there is a decline in both insulin sensitivity and insulin secretion in patients who progress from IGT to type 2 diabetes and undoubtedly environmental and genetic factors contribute to this process.

So don't worry that you don't know exactly what T2 is and is caused by. The docs don't know either. But everybody knows what the symptoms are.

The ketones thing is a bit like being able to heat your house with a combination of electricity, and gas, and a wood-burning stove. Some people never light the woodburner, some people use it all the time and wouldn't consider using an electric heater. By being in ketosis you're switching from using one fuel (glucose) to using another (ketones). Glucose comes either from food (carbs) or from the body making its own (gluconeogenesis, or making new glucose). Ketones come from body fat being used as fuel.

What you're testing for - things that affect the concentration of the glucose in your blood. I have seen somewhere an estimate that there's only 4g of glucose in the average person's bloodstream at any point. Your liver is usually busy topping this up with stored or manufactured glucose and making sure that you have what it thinks is the right amount of glucose available. The liver can and does get this calculation wrong.

Eat carbs, and glucose will pass into the bloodstream on its way to muscle cells etc. If there is impaired insulin sensitivity, the glucose will hang around in the blood for a lot longer, so the meter reading will stay higher for longer. High blood glucose over time is what does damage to nerves and capillaries, and leads to things like neuropathy.

Is that any use, or are we back to Burne-Jones?
 

Antje77

Guru
Retired Moderator
Messages
20,289
Type of diabetes
LADA
Treatment type
Insulin
Pre-raphaelite symbolism is much more interesting.
Well, dang, I read your first line and saw the lengthy post, and was fully prepared for a treaty on Pre-raphaelite symbolism!
To be honest I don’t think you really need to know the science if it’s not your bag
I agree, it's not necessary. But we still may want to know more!

@Margarettt , I've picked up a few bits and bobs along the way in the past 7 years. But you're asking a lot at the same time:
I don't really know what diabetes is
what has happened and is happening in my body.
I love my keto diet but really don't know how it works or what ketones are.
I'm pleased that the numbers on my meter are coming down but to be honest I don't actually know what I am measuring or what they represent.
Four different questions, none of them with straight forward answers.
 

Paul_

Well-Known Member
Messages
501
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
At the start, I obsessively read everything I could on the topics of diabetes and keto. It was a bit exhausting to be honest. I found I increasingly turned to this forum, rather than other resources, because it deals very well with the practicalities of managing T2 rather than endless speculation and opinions as to what causes T2. The low carb and keto advice here is also very practical/sustainable, as opposed to some of the barking mad keto cult stuff you get out on the wider internet. Anyway, I reached my limit when it came to research and trying to answer the questions you've posed, and I've settled on the following:

1) My cells are resistant to insulin and don't absorb it efficiently. Therefore, the glucose being carried by that insulin remains in my bloodstream longer. With more carbs, comes more glucose produced from digesting them. More glucose means more insulin, which as said previously, can't be absorbed efficiently by my cells, so more of it sits there in my blood. A fingerprick test shows how much glucose is sitting in your blood at that precise moment. The longer my red blood cells spend splashing around in that glucose, the more they absorb, and the hba1c shows an average of how much glucose your red blood cells have absorbed over the past 3 months (ish). By eating lower carb, it reduces every one of the previously mentioned factors, but it specifically reduces the amount of insulin my cells need to absorb, reduces the amount of time my red blood cells spend splashing around in the glucose that insulin carries, and therefore my fingerprick test results are lower and my hba1c is lower.

2) Keto is a multi-purpose tool. It pushes carb intake very low and therefore allows better management of all the previously mentioned factors above, e.g. insulin response, glucose. In the context of T2, pushing carb intake very low results in very low glucose levels when digesting food (leaving just the other million or so factors that can influence BG levels to contend with :)). For me, keto also reduces appetite significantly and reduces food cravings, which has enabled me to lose a significant amount of weigh, so it's not all just about T2 management for me. Keto works by switching your body's primary energy source from carbs to fat, or more specifically from glucose (produced when carbs are digested) to ketones (produced when fat is processed in the liver). Ketones can then be used by tissues and organs for energy, in the absence of glucose. And how does your body switch between glucose and ketones for energy, I hear you ask? I don't really know, but I'd venture "the magic of evolution for an omnivorous species, who did their evolving in a world without supermarkets and fast food joints".
 

ravensmitten

Well-Known Member
Messages
418
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
If you want to talk about pre-raphaelite symbolism I'm your girl

What was all the red hair about when red hair is pretty uncommon, has to be symbolism right?

Think you are covered for explanations about diabetes on here so I wont add anything even if I could.

Wish I could explain it in art terms, which might make it easier to digest but its beyond me too
 

HairySmurf

Well-Known Member
Messages
174
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
I know of no single resource that that can help you gain a very good understanding of diabetes and what to do about it. No matter how comfortable a person is with science-speak it's a nightmare trying to learn the ideal course of action after being diagnosed T2. The reality is nobody knows the ideal approach.

I do recommend these two books:
'Life Without Diabetes' by Prof. Roy Taylor
'How to Reverse Type 2 Diabetes and Prediabetes' by Dr. David Cavan

Both are written with the non-scientist in mind. Both books are written by diabetes experts. Each book has a somewhat different explanation for how diabetes occurs. Both explanations are communicated in simple terms. Each book focusses on a different approach to lowering blood glucose levels. I have done all I can with the kind of information that Taylor provides, which is mostly about rapid weight loss and its effects on the liver and pancreas, and I'm now moving on to the low-carb approach advocated by Cavan.

I didn't actually start with books but by reading around on the internet for months. I bought the books to be sure there was nothing important that I had missed. Taken together they provide a balanced body of information that is complete enough to get the job done, whatever your chosen approach to tackling your T2.
 

JoKalsbeek

Expert
Messages
6,278
Type of diabetes
I reversed my Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
What was all the red hair about when red hair is pretty uncommon, has to be symbolism right?

Think you are covered for explanations about diabetes on here so I wont add anything even if I could.

Wish I could explain it in art terms, which might make it easier to digest but its beyond me too
I thought it mainly was to do with having the hots for Lizzy Siddal, (model, muse, artist/poet, tragic figure), but if there's more to the red thing, I'd love to hear it! :)
 

JoKalsbeek

Expert
Messages
6,278
Type of diabetes
I reversed my Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
My diagnosis is almost exactly six months old today and I still don't really know what's going on. It strikes me that I don't really know what diabetes is or what has happened and is happening in my body. I love my keto diet but really don't know how it works or what ketones are. I'm pleased that the numbers on my meter are coming down but to be honest I don't actually know what I am measuring or what they represent. I go back and read old posts to try and learn but get all caught up in terms like visceral fat or synthesising glucose and just end up in a muddle. I know that I'm not stupid just a bit ignorant. I failed biology at school and dropped chemistry so all the science is a bit scary.
If you want to talk about pre-raphaelite symbolism I'm your girl but has anyone got a link that makes diabetes easy to understand?
I always just figure it this way: I can't effectively use carbs/glucose to burn for energy. Plenty of insulin floating around to help get it into my cells, but I'm insensitive to it, so that doesn't work. If I don't burn sugars, they end up either stored as fats, or just doing damage everywhere in my organs, floating around in tears, pee and whatnot.

When I eat very low carb, my body needs something to burn that's not glucose, and that's usually fats. When fats are used for fuel, they turn into ketones. I run on ketones. Yay, ketones. :)

The numbers on your meter tell you whether your blood sugars are high, low or just right. If they're just right, you're all good, if they're high, sugars are doing damage to your insides, which you don't want. (Imagine the sugar in a bowl running through your veins, and how the crystals have sharp angles and edges. You don't want that sanding away inside your organs, eyes, veins. Not exactly what happens mind you, but close enough, and a decent visual.) If you check around meals and keep to a certain standard (being having less than 2.0 mmol/l of a rise two hours after eating), then your body could process everything you put in it, and it also means your over all blood sugars are coming down, so your HbA1c improves.

...I dropped the sciences the second I could. ;)
 

Margarettt

Well-Known Member
Messages
367
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
To be honest I don’t think you really need to know the science if it’s not your bag
@lovinglife as ever thank you. There is an element of "I should know" and your response gives me permission not to. Equally I still crave a basic understanding.
I also have ulcerative colitis. Noone knows what causes it but mine was probably triggered 20 years ago by suddenly stopping a heavy smoking habit.
The colitis causes imflammation and ulcers in my colon. The daily meds keep this at bay. If a flair starts I have to double the meds within a couple of days or things get interesting. This is usually enough because the meds target the ?proteins? that cause the inflammation.
Thats all I know and all I'll ever want to know about colitis
I could type a similiar thing about my new knees and cartilage and what the exercises do. I know enough that I don't have to think about it.
The diabetes though I don't even have a basic understanding of and hence think about way too much.
see where I’m going with this
Yes. My family of men find it entertaining that I don't know how to open the bonnet or what all the wee lights on the dashboard mean.
Thank you for once again helping me feel less dense.
 

Margarettt

Well-Known Member
Messages
367
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
like to think of it that our bodies can't process glucose. The glucose wants to get into cells to be used for energy, insulin makes that happen. If our bodies can't use the insulin we make (most T2s still make it) then the glucose can't be used and instead floats around our blood making the the blood sugar go high. Eventually the extra glucose gets stored as fat.

Low carb works because we are reducing the amount of potential glucose needing to be processed. That means less glucose floating round unable to be used and lower bg.

If you take metformin, it acts to help the glucose get into the cells and be used.

This is not a scientific way of describing it, but I think that's how it works! If I'm way off, someone will correct me!
Thank you @mouseee Really. really straightforward and helpful (bookmarked for thinking about)
 

Margarettt

Well-Known Member
Messages
367
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
However they also list genetics, impaired beta cell function, the thrifty phenotype syndrome, hormones and cytokines, inflammation, and metabolic syndrome
See thats exactly what I mean. I have no idea how to decipher this sort of stuff but this.....
So don't worry that you don't know exactly what T2 is and is caused by. The docs don't know either. But everybody knows what the symptoms are.
...makes it all okay. Thank you @KennyA that helps more than you know.
I loved the ketosis "switching fuel" analogy and just about understand it
and this
Is that any use, or are we back to Burne-Jones?
was unexpected and made me laugh out loud and make my husband look over my shoulder.
Thank you
 
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Margarettt

Well-Known Member
Messages
367
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
At the start, I obsessively read everything I could on the topics of diabetes and keto. It was a bit exhausting to be honest. I found I increasingly turned to this forum, rather than other resources, because it deals very well with the practicalities of managing T2 rather than endless speculation and opinions as to what causes T2. The low carb and keto advice here is also very practical/sustainable, as opposed to some of the barking mad keto cult stuff you get out on the wider internet. Anyway, I reached my limit when it came to research and trying to answer the questions you've posed, and I've settled on the following:

1) My cells are resistant to insulin and don't absorb it efficiently. Therefore, the glucose being carried by that insulin remains in my bloodstream longer. With more carbs, comes more glucose produced from digesting them. More glucose means more insulin, which as said previously, can't be absorbed efficiently by my cells, so more of it sits there in my blood. A fingerprick test shows how much glucose is sitting in your blood at that precise moment. The longer my red blood cells spend splashing around in that glucose, the more they absorb, and the hba1c shows an average of how much glucose your red blood cells have absorbed over the past 3 months (ish). By eating lower carb, it reduces every one of the previously mentioned factors, but it specifically reduces the amount of insulin my cells need to absorb, reduces the amount of time my red blood cells spend splashing around in the glucose that insulin carries, and therefore my fingerprick test results are lower and my hba1c is lower.

2) Keto is a multi-purpose tool. It pushes carb intake very low and therefore allows better management of all the previously mentioned factors above, e.g. insulin response, glucose. In the context of T2, pushing carb intake very low results in very low glucose levels when digesting food (leaving just the other million or so factors that can influence BG levels to contend with :)). For me, keto also reduces appetite significantly and reduces food cravings, which has enabled me to lose a significant amount of weigh, so it's not all just about T2 management for me. Keto works by switching your body's primary energy source from carbs to fat, or more specifically from glucose (produced when carbs are digested) to ketones (produced when fat is processed in the liver). Ketones can then be used by tissues and organs for energy, in the absence of glucose. And how does your body switch between glucose and ketones for energy, I hear you ask? I don't really know, but I'd venture "the magic of evolution for an omnivorous species, who did their evolving in a world without supermarkets and fast food joints".
As ever thanks @Paul_ I nearly understand what you are telling me and have bookmarked this to come back to. Thank you for taking the time.
 
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Margarettt

Well-Known Member
Messages
367
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
What was all the red hair about when red hair is pretty uncommon, has to be symbolism right?
@ravensmitten You have no idea how this throw away line made me feel. "ha...I know this" puffed up pride. I have no idea if you were just being funny but red hair was rare and a bit scarey so came to symbolise angels and demons and then just mystical magical stuff. The preraphaelites used it to make the work edgey compounded by the fact that( as @JoKalsbeek said in another post) Lizzy Siddel was a red headed model and muse they used a lot,
It ended up with masses of mid victorian women trying to dye their hair red and so the whole thing snowballed.
That has (in a show off type of way) made me feel better. Thank you
 

Margarettt

Well-Known Member
Messages
367
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
I thought it mainly was to do with having the hots for Lizzy Siddal, (model, muse, artist/poet, tragic figure), but if there's more to the red thing, I'd love to hear it! :)
On the off chance you are being serious I think it comes from this

Throughout history, red hair has been associated with evil; vampires, witches and outsiders were traditionally always portrayed with red hair. There are numerous reasons for this, one being that actually having red hair is incredibly rare (less than 2%, remember?), and society is generally suspicious about anything ‘different’, particularly when it is so very noticeable and eye-catching. Some scholars also trace this fear/dislike of red hair back to the belief that Judas, who betrayed Jesus in the Bible, had red hair. Culturally, anyone with red hair has often been assumed to have a hot temper and tempestuous personality.
 

Margarettt

Well-Known Member
Messages
367
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
I always just figure it this way: I can't effectively use carbs/glucose to burn for energy. Plenty of insulin floating around to help get it into my cells, but I'm insensitive to it, so that doesn't work. If I don't burn sugars, they end up either stored as fats, or just doing damage everywhere in my organs, floating around in tears, pee and whatnot.

When I eat very low carb, my body needs something to burn that's not glucose, and that's usually fats. When fats are used for fuel, they turn into ketones. I run on ketones. Yay, ketones. :)

The numbers on your meter tell you whether your blood sugars are high, low or just right. If they're just right, you're all good, if they're high, sugars are doing damage to your insides, which you don't want. (Imagine the sugar in a bowl running through your veins, and how the crystals have sharp angles and edges. You don't want that sanding away inside your organs, eyes, veins. Not exactly what happens mind you, but close enough, and a decent visual.) If you check around meals and keep to a certain standard (being having less than 2.0 mmol/l of a rise two hours after eating), then your body could process everything you put in it, and it also means your over all blood sugars are coming down, so your HbA1c improves.
Oh @JoKalsbeek as ever you understood the assignment, This is really helpful Thank you. Sharp sugar sanding I can understand!
 

JoKalsbeek

Expert
Messages
6,278
Type of diabetes
I reversed my Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
On the off chance you are being serious I think it comes from this

Throughout history, red hair has been associated with evil; vampires, witches and outsiders were traditionally always portrayed with red hair. There are numerous reasons for this, one being that actually having red hair is incredibly rare (less than 2%, remember?), and society is generally suspicious about anything ‘different’, particularly when it is so very noticeable and eye-catching. Some scholars also trace this fear/dislike of red hair back to the belief that Judas, who betrayed Jesus in the Bible, had red hair. Culturally, anyone with red hair has often been assumed to have a hot temper and tempestuous personality.
I was serious, actually! (I mean, I read Siddals biography, especially fascinating reading right after seeing a pre-raphaelite exposition in Amsterdam 20-odd years ago!) :) Married to a redhead, though he's becoming ever more white... And if there ever was a man more even-tempered, I'm yet to meet him. Thanks, this was fun! And completely off-topic, for which I apologise and hope the mods won't give me severe beating. :)