Dr Neil Barnard

elmer_dinkley said:

Anyone else doing his system.
Now finished 13 days of very low fat vegan diet. No matter what I did my levels didn't change. my dailys reading averaged 11, very rarely did they go into single figures. 3 days in I showed a 7.3m this has been steadily dropping . this mornings first reading was 5.2. My next appointment is September I want to be clear by then.

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I don't think you'll find a lot of people here who have succesfully done it, as the problem for diabetics isn't fats, it's carbs... (We actually thrive on fats, believe it or not). And a lot of vegan diets are carb-heavy by nature.

https://josekalsbeek.blogspot.com/2019/11/the-nutritional-thingy.html <-- this is in broad strokes what a lot of us do. Some go even farther and go for carnivore (the exact opposite of what you're doing) and getting stunning results. So if you're okay with eating foods with faces, bacon can be your new best friend.

elmer_dinkley said:

Anyone else doing his system.
Now finished 13 days of very low fat vegan diet. No matter what I did my levels didn't change. my dailys reading averaged 11, very rarely did they go into single figures. 3 days in I showed a 7.3m this has been steadily dropping . this mornings first reading was 5.2. My next appointment is September I want to be clear by then.

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Congratulations on the drop and testing to see what is happening. Managing T2 seems to be very individual so we often need to try a variety of different approaches and hybrid systems. There are some very censorious posters about, which is not at all helpful, but good for you trying to make improvements. Hope all goes well until September.

I agree that many of us would not advise a low fat diet but rather low carbs. We are glucose intolerant not fat intolerant. If it works for you then fine.

elmer_dinkley said:

Anyone else doing his system.
Now finished 13 days of very low fat vegan diet. No matter what I did my levels didn't change. my dailys reading averaged 11, very rarely did they go into single figures. 3 days in I showed a 7.3m this has been steadily dropping . this mornings first reading was 5.2. My next appointment is September I want to be clear by then.

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(Mind you, if you're perfectly happy with this, yay you. Just keep in mind that you shouldn't experience permanent hunger, which upping the fats slightly could solve, like olives/olive oil or coconut oil. Or become deficient in vitamins and minerals, where supplements might be an answer. )

elmer_dinkley said:

Anyone else doing his system.
Now finished 13 days of very low fat vegan diet. No matter what I did my levels didn't change. my dailys reading averaged 11, very rarely did they go into single figures. 3 days in I showed a 7.3m this has been steadily dropping . this mornings first reading was 5.2. My next appointment is September I want to be clear by then.

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Good luck with that. Hope it goes well for you.. his study didn't seem to help particularly though.


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2677007/

Be very interested to see how you get on over time.

From what I can see it's a low calorie high fibre diet. These have been shown to lose weight initially, which will assist with blood sugar levels, but body eventually reverts back to where it started as basal metabolic rate slows. Does not really address insulin resistance for the long term.
You are only just beginning, let us know how you are 6-12 months down the track.

elmer_dinkley said:

Its a more sustainable eating plan than yo yo keto.

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What do you mean by yo yo keto?

elmer_dinkley said:

many reports of long term sucsess. I have been veggie for years so going vegan wasn't a big step for me. Its a bit more than a high fibre low calorie "diet" its an eating plan for life. Its a more sustainable eating plan than yo yo keto.

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On that you and I would have to agree to disagree there is nothing unsustainable about keto.

Before I put my two pennies forward, I would like to show 3 previous responses I have sent close to 3 years ago. At the time I was posting many pictures in the morning blood glucose number sections with meals that were sometimes exclusively roasted vegetables.







Hopefully the above demonstrates a bias at the time towards approaching vegetarian / vegan eating.....I believed the mantras. I did not feel too bad physically, had a HbA1c of 42 / 41. I could not obtain fasting blood glucose in the 4's, but did get 5's. My muscles had a hollowed out look and I had no backs**e (according to my wife). Switching to LCHF saw an immediate drop in HbA1c and an ability to have 4's being the norm everyday since (as well as minimal variance (and I am not optimum))..

At Christmas, it is noticeable the increase in blood sugars when persons on this site introduce more carbs.

The success section on this site shows a particular method (animal based) working to conservatively the 80 / 20 rule (I think this is closer to 98 / 2). Discussions on methodology have not been closed, just proof of long term numbers have been lacking or inferior when presented. Disagreements are not about ideology, but usually on claims about the environment, cancer, lab grown "meat", longest lived etc - everyone can choose their protein, fat and carbs.

It is not cool to be unkind to people who are trying their best. The reason persons like me post is the research we do is broad and not scared to look at all sides. When I review YouTube before and afters, some protocols leave people physically different in a bad way, whilst with animal based failures, on the whole I notice just a falling off the wagon or a rise is cholesterol that has put someone off.

elmer_dinkley said:

many reports of long term sucsess. I have been veggie for years so going vegan wasn't a big step for me. Its a bit more than a high fibre low calorie "diet" its an eating plan for life. Its a more sustainable eating plan than yo yo keto.

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....I'm not yoyoing... Been keto for I think about 2 years now, and thriving. The thing is... You need to find what works for you. Both mentally and physically. besides that it has to fit in your life, ethically, religiously, economically etc... What works for you might not work for another though. Keto is what does it for me. Others here are carnivores. We have vegans, ovo-lacto's...

A little respect back and forth would help. Diet is personal, and needs to be tailor made to fit a person's body and life.

elmer_dinkley said:

Keto is not a permanent eating change. it has a lot of issues with doing it long term. if its working for you then fine. I didnt ask for opinions on my diet.

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My friend I gave you a link to the study by the man whose diet you are following.. its overall results were not great.
If it works for you then brilliant..

However even being a vegetarian didn't protect you from T2 diabetes so why you think a more extreme version of the same will put it into remission is beyond me.

Tata.

JohnEGreen said:

...there is nothing unsustainable about keto.

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Except diabetes?

elmer_dinkley said:

low blood pressure, kidney stones, constipation, nutrient deficiencies and an increased risk of heart disease. none of this with vegan.

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I will be happy to see you succeed with whichever diet you choose to deal with T2.

On this forum, however, we usually provide links to scientific articles when we make statements as you have made above.

Please be aware that there are many members of this forum who have been on the ketogenic diet for many years (five years for myself) with no ill effects, with most having reversed not only diabetes, but some of the complications that come with it.

Btw, why not post in the vegetarian subsection of this forum if you prefer to only have input from people who think like you?

Edited for clarity.