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Driving Licence Revoked

W.olly said:
AMBrennan said:
On the taking a BG reading before you drive,[...]I always know when i am going low on the BG
And how do you know this without testing? By definition, you can't know if you don't know when you're going low [i.e. to show that you have hypo unawareness a single unnoticed hypo is sufficient; to show that you don't have hypo unawareness you'd need weeks of continuous BG measurements]

I know when my BG gets to around 3.5 by the feeling i get, not light headed as such or anything that holds me back from anything, when in this situation i have a biscuit or what ever i am carrying and 10 mins and all is good. I know my levels as i check them when this happens on occasions and its always the same, the worst are at night but thats few and far between. My Hab1c is 8, a bit high yes.


Still dont understand why if a night time hypo and you loose your licence :?

Useful tip for anyone thinking about getting a degree in Mathematics: The converse is almost always false

You may occasionally feel hypo, and get readings <4 at those times (A implies B). This is logically equivalent to you not feeling hypo if your BG is >4 (not B implies not A).
The converse - you having BG <4 and feeling hypo at the time (B implies A) is not necessarily true.

Therefore, in order to convince me that you do not have any undetected hypos you would have to provide me with a week's worth of hourly BG readings.
 
HI Kitches, In general i am fuming with our beloved government about everything that’s going on in the UK these days, as its them have have got us in to the mess were in not us, in general! I’m sorry to read that DVLA have refused to give you a renewal of your driving licence, & for no apparent reason too! That really does make my blood boil! I have been a type 1 for just over 30 years now & i honestly consider myself to be fitter than 75% of anyone out there in the UK, so i do know how frustrated you must feel about what these idiots in Westminster (by means of the DVLA) are doing to you! When I was about 22, I lost my driving licence for about 1 year because I had a hypo at the wheel, but the real truth about that was, I was working out in the middle of now where, I felt a hypo coming on & I took the decision to get in to my car & drive the few mile to a near by petrol station to get some food. Unfortunately I didn’t make it & woke up in casualty, unhurt! Since them I have driving perfectly safely & hypo free every day, though these days I'm on a motor bike! lol If you were to look at the DVLA website & look up the rules to the new driving law for diabetics, you will clearly see that it has been put together by a complete idiot who knows nothing about diabetes! This new driving rules clearly say that its for "Insulin Dependant" diabetics...& as we all know ONLY type one diabetics are insulin dependant! So that clearly allows any type 2 diabetic to have a hypo at the wheel & only get a suspension on their licence & not lose it completely! I'm not having a go at any type 2 diabetics there, I'm simply pointing out the stupidity of the UK government! In my eyes, If the UK government want to go down this road, why do they allowing people who have known drink drive offences or drug abuse offences to drive? Sure they need to have life long bans placed upon them too! The only reason they don’t is because in the UK, if you are a criminal you get on much better than if you are not & that is a fact! I can not see this rule lasting for any amount of time, as it simply is insanity, so don't lose hope ya hear!!

Mark
 
I lost my driving licence for about 1 year because I had a hypo at the wheel, but the real truth about that was, I was working out in the middle of now where, I felt a hypo coming on & I took the decision to get in to my car & drive
Please excuse me for not having a lot of sympathy for you losing a license here.

This new driving rules clearly say that its for "Insulin Dependant" diabetics...& as we all know ONLY type one diabetics are insulin dependant
That's arguably not true since T2s unable to control their condition with other medication are also insulin dependant. In any case, you misread that passage as well since it applies to anyone taking insulin i.e. diabetes medication most likely to cause hypos ( In healthy people, insulin production is decreased when e.g. exercising; drugs lowering insulin resistance will affect this to a lesser degree than a long acting insulin that's fixed for 24h)
 
Another point is that the ban is not 'lifelong'. It lasts until such time as you have not needed assistance for a hypo more than once in 12 months and/or you have regained hypo awareness.

If you have a hypo that requires help in April and another in June that is 2 in 12 months. If you gain better control and don't have another such hypo then you would be able to reapply in April the next year.
Sorry but getting in a car, knowing you were hypo was potentially dangerous to yourself and other road users. You temporalily lost your licence then, just as you would today.
It is no great difficulty to test regularly when driving and to keep a supply of glucose tablets in your car.
 
Please excuse me for not having a lot of sympathy for you losing a license here.

AMBrennan,
I don’t get what you mean by that remark? lol I had 2 options A: lay down & possibly die, (due to my hypo) out in the middle of no where or B: Try & get to a place where i could stop my hypo in its tracks! At that time mobile phone networks were just changing over to GSM & my analogue phone barely got a signal in a town area! I was not looking for sympathy i was stating the fact the hypos are part & parcel of life with diabetes. Generally they are nothing to worry about, if they are caught in time. Only when a person loses the early warning signs of a hypo starting can it become dangerous for both them & those around them!
As as for you say that some type 2 diabetics are insulin dependant - NO they are not! The definition of "Insulin dependancy" is that without insulin a person will die within days! A type 2 diabetic who solely relies on insulin as his only means to controlling his diabetes can in fact live for years without any insulin or special diet! I’m not saying they will lead health life style without insulin, but they will not die of it in the foreseeable future. This has been known since around 2000BC in Egypt!
But once again i would like to point out that i am in no way trying to having a go at type 2 diabetes! My mother is a type 2! I worked with a guy, who only 6 months after being diagnosed with type 2 diabetes, had to have his foot amputated. The medical profession consider type 1 to be a bigger evil of the two but i don’t see it that way! I’ve never heard of any type 1 needing amputation 6 months after diagnosis! Most type one diabetics can control their condition with just a bit of effort! In type 2 diabetes, a lot of people only know less than the basic facts about what their trying to achieve, because no one in our NHS has taken the time to teach them the basics, unlike in the USA where all type 2's get sent to diabetes classes! My nephew was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes, hes now in a honey moon period which has lasted well over 2 years, he has never even been sent to see a dietitian! I myself taught him about carbohydrates!

As for me misreading the passage the DVLA website which now say it applies to "anyone taking insulin"... Yes, i will give you that one because when i read it, when all this began a few months back, it most certain did state "Insulin Dependant Diabetics"!
 
jimmytwoshoes said:
As as for you say that some type 2 diabetics are insulin dependant - NO they are not! The definition of "Insulin dependancy" is that without insulin a person will die within days!

That's a ridiculous statement. You really need to do way more reaserch before approaching your keyboard.
 
Ridiculous statement? What’s ridiculous about it?
How many type 2 diabetics injected insulin 20 years ago?

Answer: none! It is only in more recent times (the last 10 - 15 years id guestimate it at) that type 2 diabetics have began using insulin!

Type 2 diabetics use insulin these day because it give them much better & easier control than say a drug like Metformin, particularly if that is not working to well for them! So may i suggest you go do some research before getting on the web & attacking me! Thank you very much! :D I would also suggest that if feel so strongly about what I say, that you report my posting to the site administration because I'm sure they know a lot more than you or I do!

I’m far from being any kind of diabetes expert, but i know what i know is fact!
 
Please keep your exchanges polite, even if you don't agree with the other person's viewpoint. Or perhaps that should be especially if you don't agree.
 
Type 2 diabetics use insulin these day because it give them much better & easier control than say a drug like Metformin,
Well, no. Look at the NICE guidelines to see that insulin is used after 1st, 2nd and 3rd line (non-insulin) treatments fail. Note that I cunningly included "arguably" in my earlier post since I'd argue that a patient unable to achieve adequate control without insulin does depend on insulin. Regardless of who's right here, though, the hypo restrictions are for people taking insulin, not people dependent on insulin.
 
jimmytwoshoes said:
When I was about 22, I lost my driving licence for about 1 year because I had a hypo at the wheel, but the real truth about that was, I was working out in the middle of now where, I felt a hypo coming on & I took the decision to get in to my car & drive the few mile to a near by petrol station to get some food. Unfortunately I didn’t make it & woke up in casualty, unhurt!

Did you learn from your mistake and keep a "hypo kit" in your car now?

Medical emergency or not, it really is lucky that you didn't kill anyone...
 
jimmytwoshoes said:
Ridiculous statement? What’s ridiculous about it?
How many type 2 diabetics injected insulin 20 years ago?

Answer: none! It is only in more recent times (the last 10 - 15 years id guestimate it at) that type 2 diabetics have began using insulin!

I think you'll find that you are wrong there jimmytwoshoes, have a read below.

Insulin is the oldest and the most effective treatment to control glucose levels in diabetic patients. It was first used in the treatment of diabetes by Frederick Banting and Charles Best in 1922. Although originally thought to be a cure for diabetes, it soon became evident that insulin was a method of controlling the disorder. Insulin has been the most versatile of diabetes treatments because it may be used to control any degree of hyperglycemia of type 1 or type 2 diabetes.


Source: http://clinical.diabetesjournals.org/co ... 1/35.short

So may i suggest you go do some research before getting on the web & attacking others! Thank you very much! :D

jimmytwoshoes said:
I’m far from being any kind of diabetes expert, but i know what i know is fact!

Really?
 
Insulin is the oldest and the most effective treatment to control glucose levels in diabetic patients
Whilst that may well be true it doesn't actually address the point jimmytwoshoes made (effectiveness does not necessarily imply general availability); I wouldn't be surprised if he was correct (if only because we have much more rigorous T2 screening today)
 
Insulin is used to treat hyperglycaemia in type 2 diabetes which can not be controlled by diet or other meds. Yes T2 is more prevalent today but it was known about a lot longer than the last 20 years.

It seems some T1's just have to dismiss T2 at every opportunity to say that T2's dont need insulin is ridiculous every body needs insulin and if a T2 is extremely insulin resistant then there pancreas simply wears its self out by the overproduction of insulin, hyperglycaemia is hyperglycaemia whether in a T1 or a T2 sadly diabetes makes no distinction and it is hyperglycaemia that is treated with insulin.
 
jimmytwoshoes said:
Ridiculous statement? What’s ridiculous about it?
How many type 2 diabetics injected insulin 20 years ago?

Bigger question maybe is "how many T2s died 20 years ago because they didn't take insulin?"
Answer is we don't know. But a failed Pancreas is a failed Pancreas, and without Insulin the owner dies.
 
OK – I have absolutely no idea why some of you people replying to my posts in here are so defensive! (In particular AMBrennan who is now trying to tell me, over on another posting in this forum, that Omega 3 fish has zero benefits of health to anyone haha that is truly is pathetic!)

So here’s what I'm gonna do – Draw a line under this posting, as its going no where but down hill!

But before I go I will say this...

TYPE2 DIABETES IS NOT INSULIN DEPENDANT! Lol

Use your own basic common sense & ask yourself this question...If there were no type 2 diabetics on this planet using insulin 40 years ago (& there were none too as I'm sure everyone will agree) does that not confirm that type 2 diabetes is NOT insulin dependant? If it doesn’t, how did they manage to survive? Take the insulin away from a type 2 diabetic & they can live an unhealthy lifestyle for many years! Take it away from a type 1 diabetic & I guarantee you that they will be dead within a matter of days from ketoacidosis, the biggest killer in the diabetic community!

Have a nice day!
 
[TYPE2 DIABETES IS NOT INSULIN DEPENDANT! Lol

Use your own basic common sense & ask yourself this question...If there were no type 2 diabetics on this planet using insulin 40 years ago (& there were none too as I'm sure everyone will agree) does that not confirm that type 2 diabetes is NOT insulin dependant? If it doesn’t, how did they manage to survive? Take the insulin away from a type 2 diabetic & they can live an unhealthy lifestyle for many years! Take it away from a type 1 diabetic & I guarantee you that they will be dead within a matter of days from ketoacidosis, the biggest killer in the diabetic community!

Have a nice day![/quote]

Just a note to say that my grandfather had T2 in the late 1950s and he had to inject himself every day with insulin. As a child i actually saw him do it.I still have a vivid memory of this.He died in 1961. So i am sorry, you are incorrect in your assumption that there were no T2s injecting themselves 40 years ago. Over 50 they were.

Andy
 
jimmytwoshoes said:
TYPE2 DIABETES IS NOT INSULIN DEPENDANT! Lol

I think you are failing to grasp this jimmy so I will reiterate, not all T2 diabetics are insulin dependent but those whose pancreases have stopped producing insulin are.

There are T2's on insulin who could survive without it as I was on diagnosis when insulin treatment was prescribed for me as being the most beneficial treatment but there are some whos pancreases have failed or rather their beta cells are not able to produce insulin and these people are insulin dependent, it doesn't make them T1's it just means they are insulin dependant T2's.

I hope that helps clear this up for you :thumbup: .
 
Again, it depends on your definition of "dependant" on a medical intervention - you define it as "will kill the patient within 24h if withheld" whilst I think "required to maintain normal health" (e.g. no amputations, renal failure, heart attack or blindness - all typical diabetes complications).

In particular AMBrennan who is now trying to tell me, over on another posting in this forum, that Omega 3 fish has zero benefits of health to anyone haha that is truly is pathetic!
That's not exactly true, which you would have realised if you had actually read the article I linked to. But you are right in that I did say that taking doses massively exceeding the recommended daily dose may not be safe, and that there is no evidence for some of the claims the Omega-3 shills are making.
 
Trying to put people into 2 little boxes insulin dependent/ non insulin dependent isn't helpful. That's why they abandoned using those terms as labels in 1999.
It is recommended that the terms "insulin-dependent diabetes mellitus" and "non-insulin-dependent diabetes mellitus" and their acronyms "IDDM" and "NIDDM" no longer be used. These terms have been confusing and frequently resulted in patients being classified based on treatment rather than on pathogenesis.
WHO 1999

. A person with T2 probably always produces some insulin but as SId said, it often progresses with more beta cells being killed off, and or more insulin resistance. People who have relatively too little insulin will depend on insulin injections just as much as those who have none at all (actually 2/3 of T1s also produce a tiny amount of their own) Most people using insulin are not T1 but T2 because there are many more people with T2 than T1.

If glucose levels are not lowered, a person with T2 doesn't normally develop DKA (though some do). However, untreated,they may develop HHS,( Hyperosmolar Hyperglycaemic State) basically DKA without the ketones . It only takes a little insulin to surpress ketones. If untreated this will result in coma (HONK). The death rate from HONK is very high.

Pre insulin there were those with what we now call T2 who survived on very limited diets. There were others that this didn't work for. Of those who were severe enough (and probably rich enough) to be seen by a hospital , their survival rate at aged 50 was about 8 years, compared with about 2years for children. Just as with the younger patients, the cause of death for most was cited as 'diabetic coma'. ( some would have been late onset T1s so probably DKA, many probably died of HONK). It wasn't until after the introduction of insulin that life was prolonged and the cause of death for most people with diabetes at this same hospital became CVD or other diabetic complications. (source Joslin 1951)

From 1922 to the late 1950s, if diet and exercise failed... and for many it did, insulin was the onlsy available treatment. It wasn't until then that other drugs became available, and as previously mentioned, in many people diabetes progresses and eventually, no oral drug will work .
And of course there are far more varieties of DM that T1 and T2, though often doctors only use the 2 boxes. Some of these other types also depend on insulin for survival.
 
I believe everyone is different and copes differently - I know well in advance if hypo symptoms are near - and i think a lot of people do but they learn to cope with them so not requiring medical intervention. I dont test my BG before driving either and infact a lot of doctors are telling patients not to test so often and better monitoring by GPs is removing the need (not something i personally agree on).
I was told by a doctor and only recently that if you are on insulin that you should not drive for at least a hour after taking insulin. I have been diabetic for many years and have only just been told this.

If a person doesnt have proper control of their diabetes then testing will not really make a difference to them as they will only act on actual symptoms - its all about proper guidance and knowledge.
If the DVLA are not entering communication then you need to apply to them in writing under the freedom of information act for the reason why you have been declined.
 
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