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Drop Basal?

SueJB

SueJB

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,325
Location
Heaven
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
Dislikes
cold weather
Just wondering if anyone has been told to stop basal insulin and only bolus with food while still in "honeymoon"? Thanks
 
Anything is possible. I've certainly read of honeymooners being on a tiny amount of basal with no bolusses. I think I even read about someone who came off all insulin, but I don't think I've read about them only using a bolus.
 
So long as you test and keep an eye on your BG and it works for YOU then so be it.
 
Hi @SueJB How are your readings at the moment ? It's not unheard of to stop using basal, I saw a post recently from another member who had stopped taking their basal so if I can track it down i'll copy you in. As Slip has said it's important to see what the reaction is on your readings, if you're staying in range then fine, but as soon as this changes and your levels start rising then you will need to review your insulin doses again.
 
dancer said:
Anything is possible. I've certainly read of honeymooners being on a tiny amount of basal with no bolusses. I think I even read about someone who came off all insulin, but I don't think I've read about them only using a bolus.
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dancer said:
Anything is possible. I've certainly read of honeymooners being on a tiny amount of basal with no bolusses. I think I even read about someone who came off all insulin, but I don't think I've read about them only using a bolus.
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Thanks @dancer. I think my 4mmols twice daily is tiny and I think I've read something somewhere else about insulin on another forum LOL!!! well we are diabetics. Suppose I posted this since I can't find the thread I was looking for.
 
slip said:
So long as you test and keep an eye on your BG and it works for YOU then so be it.
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Thanks @slip Am I right in thinking that if I did stop basal then BG would begin to rise?
 
Juicyj said:
Hi @SueJB How are your readings at the moment ? It's not unheard of to stop using basal, I saw a post recently from another member who had stopped taking their basal so if I can track it down i'll copy you in. As Slip has said it's important to see what the reaction is on your readings, if you're staying in range then fine, but as soon as this changes and your levels start rising then you will need to review your insulin doses again.
Click to expand...
Juicyj said:
Hi @SueJB How are your readings at the moment ? It's not unheard of to stop using basal, I saw a post recently from another member who had stopped taking their basal so if I can track it down i'll copy you in. As Slip has said it's important to see what the reaction is on your readings, if you're staying in range then fine, but as soon as this changes and your levels start rising then you will need to review your insulin doses again.
Click to expand...
Hi @Juicyj My numbers are all within range 4-6mmols fbg and before meals and go to 8-9 after. I think I saw someone somewhere say they'd be asked/advised to do it but I don't know who or where. If I find it, I'll let you know. Sensible advice both you and @slip have given. Thanks. I haven't used bolus since the New Year, well that's a bit of a fib because sometimes I decide I want some carb, a Yorkshire pud or something lush and then I have to do 1 unit Nova, I'm not too greedy!!
 
To be honest @SueJB I wouldn't attempt doing anything unless your nurse tells you it's ok, if you do stop then your levels may start to rise, but only your meter is going to tell you that, as your levels are pretty good at the moment it's not worth changing anything.
 
SueJB said:
Thanks @slip Am I right in thinking that if I did stop basal then BG would begin to rise?
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Hi Sue, Well it depends on how 'strong' your honeymoon is. I would not say 8u is insignificant, remember basal is there to keep your BG level(ish) when you don't eat and don't have a bolus. If your BG numbers are good then keep doing what ever you are doing, just seen you're last update so if you're not taking any basal and numbers are good then great, what are your numbers like just before bed?

And juicyjs update, she puts it better and took the words right out my mouth.
 
The honeymoon time was a tricky phase for me, especially as at the time gluco-meters were not yet available.
I thought about my pancreas gland then as like a goldmine that was petering out. Some days the 'mine' produced more gold (insulin) than other days. To keep the gold (insulin) supply relatively steady to meet "market expectations and fluctuations'' I was adding in extra gold (insulin) from another supply. So things were juggled day by day, lots of trial and error until it became obvious that the 'old mine' was reaching the end of its lode of gold/insulin.
So, at about the 12 months mark I needed the full supply of gold/insulin from the Federal supply ( like from Fort Knox, or a tight-fisted bureaucracy as it were). At least the amounts were more predictable day by day but the challenges of meeting the market fluctuation were still there.
The aim was too never run out of gold and that is the best analogy I can give you. And you nurse and doctor, perhaps are inspectors and regulators/advisors of individual gold economies !
 
SueJB said:
Hi @Juicyj My numbers are all within range 4-6mmols fbg and before meals and go to 8-9 after. I think I saw someone somewhere say they'd be asked/advised to do it but I don't know who or where. If I find it, I'll let you know. Sensible advice both you and @slip have given. Thanks. I haven't used bolus since the New Year, well that's a bit of a fib because sometimes I decide I want some carb, a Yorkshire pud or something lush and then I have to do 1 unit Nova, I'm not too greedy!!
Click to expand...

With your bloods as good as this I would keep to what you are doing at the moment.
 
SueJB said:
Hi @Juicyj My numbers are all within range 4-6mmols fbg and before meals and go to 8-9 after.
Click to expand...
Your numbers are excellent, if looking for perfection you could maybe try a tiny bit more bolus go get the post meal level down a fraction (though even half unit may drop you too much so you'd have to eat a few more carbs to get that half unit to work as desired)

So why do you want to stop your basal? You have your basal absolutely spot on now looking at your results. Yes your BG will rise if you stop and you will have to bolus more at meals.

8 units isn't insignificant. If you really did want to experiment maybe go 3&4 (or 4&3) then 3&3etc and check results.

You may be noticing that your basal requirements drop for other reasons. For me I can only think it is the heat as in winter i'm on 11&10 but by peak summer I will be down to about 6&5 I reckon (currently 7&6). I'm active all year round, only slightly more in the summer so it's not that for me.

So yes basal requirements can change, but I wouldn't do such a radical change as from 8 to zero in one go though. Small tweaks (though you have it perfect now!)
 
Juicyj said:
To be honest @SueJB I wouldn't attempt doing anything unless your nurse tells you it's ok, if you do stop then your levels may start to rise, but only your meter is going to tell you that, as your levels are pretty good at the moment it's not worth changing anything.
Click to expand...
To be honest @Juicyj I have no faith in any of the nurse I've seen so far (3) . They know the general info but that's it, ask a question especially one with "Why?" and they go gaga. But I do appreciate and understand what you're saying. I still haven't found the other thread!!
 
kitedoc said:
The honeymoon time was a tricky phase for me, especially as at the time gluco-meters were not yet available.
I thought about my pancreas gland then as like a goldmine that was petering out. Some days the 'mine' produced more gold (insulin) than other days. To keep the gold (insulin) supply relatively steady to meet "market expectations and fluctuations'' I was adding in extra gold (insulin) from another supply. So things were juggled day by day, lots of trial and error until it became obvious that the 'old mine' was reaching the end of its lode of gold/insulin.
So, at about the 12 months mark I needed the full supply of gold/insulin from the Federal supply ( like from Fort Knox, or a tight-fisted bureaucracy as it were). At least the amounts were more predictable day by day but the challenges of meeting the market fluctuation were still there.
The aim was too never run out of gold and that is the best analogy I can give you. And you nurse and doctor, perhaps are inspectors and regulators/advisors of individual gold economies !
Click to expand...
@kitedoc I just love the analogy and would like to keep my goldmine going as long as possible so thanks I've got a visual of a pot of gold in my belly. As I said to @Juicyj, I don't trust the nurses and I don't get to see the consultant until Sept
 
Eek. I’d be really wary of binning all together in one go. Like the others said, maybe reduce it a unit at a time, and give a change a few days to bed in before making another?

What basal are you on?
 
Draco16 said:
Your numbers are excellent, if looking for perfection you could maybe try a tiny bit more bolus go get the post meal level down a fraction (though even half unit may drop you too much so you'd have to eat a few more carbs to get that half unit to work as desired)

So why do you want to stop your basal? You have your basal absolutely spot on now looking at your results. Yes your BG will rise if you stop and you will have to bolus more at meals.

8 units isn't insignificant. If you really did want to experiment maybe go 3&4 (or 4&3) then 3&3etc and check results.

You may be noticing that your basal requirements drop for other reasons. For me I can only think it is the heat as in winter i'm on 11&10 but by peak summer I will be down to about 6&5 I reckon (currently 7&6). I'm active all year round, only slightly more in the summer so it's not that for me.

So yes basal requirements can change, but I wouldn't do such a radical change as from 8 to zero in one go though. Small tweaks (though you have it perfect now!)
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reply, to you @draco and everyone really who's posted and a cyber hug back to you all. It really is reassuring and I get the idea of I'm doing OK and tweak the basal a bit. I don't want to stop the basal but was interested because of a post I'd read somewhere suggesting it. My problem is I don't like the idea of extra insulin floating round unnecessarily.
 
Mel dCP said:
Eek. I’d be really wary of binning all together in one go. Like the others said, maybe reduce it a unit at a time, and give a change a few days to bed in before making another?

What basal are you on?
Click to expand...
Hi @Mel dCP I wasn't thinking of ditching it but wanted people's reaction to the idea because of what I'd read on another thread, and then possibly reducing it. I wondered if anyone had tried it /knew anything about it. I'm on 4 units Levemir twice daily. Out of interest, what are other people's doses?
 
Hi @SueJB Depending on weight, physiology, metabolism, genetics etc etc everyone has their own unique doses of basal requirements.

I have a philosophy in life which is 'if it ain't broke then don't fix it', I think your readings are fine, stopping or even reducing your basal when all is going well is not a good decision to make particularly when you are newly diagnosed without the support of either your nurse or consultant.
 
SueJB said:
Hi @Mel dCP I wasn't thinking of ditching it but wanted people's reaction to the idea because of what I'd read on another thread, and then possibly reducing it. I wondered if anyone had tried it /knew anything about it. I'm on 4 units Levemir twice daily. Out of interest, what are other people's doses?
Click to expand...
If you did reduce your basal then your blood sugars would start to rise. It looks like your insulin is pretty dialled in at the moment. I am pretty sure when your honeymoon period is over then you will start to need more insulin. As @Juicyj has said "if it aint broke, don't fix it!"
 
SueJB said:
Hi @Mel dCP I wasn't thinking of ditching it but wanted people's reaction to the idea because of what I'd read on another thread, and then possibly reducing it. I wondered if anyone had tried it /knew anything about it. I'm on 4 units Levemir twice daily. Out of interest, what are other people's doses?
Click to expand...
At the moment I take 17u Tresiba once a day. But that’s with a very low carb diet. In my 20 years of T1 I’ve been on as much as 60u basal a day, I started with Insulatard in 1999 (I was on a mixed pig one before that) and was switched to Lantus in the early 2000s, I don’t remember exactly when. It’s altered as my weight has changed and when I was pregnant, as well as with my diet. It’s one of those things that sort of evolves through your diabetic journey, there’s no one right dose for life!
 
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