Eating out nightmare

[lovinglife]

But I don’t think that’s what most of us are advocating though.

Although a carb count would be more helpful than the somewhat pointless calorie count they are now made to do I don’t expect that. We don’t generally expect or need them to understand type 2 eating styles.

We do expect a little understanding and flexibility with the items they already have on the menu when asked for swaps. Or to be able to tell us the ingredients used in a dish (there are other allergies not contained in the required listing to be considered there too).

And to be fair I’ve not had any refuse a request, especially once they know it’s medical (I can’t eat bread, rice, pasta or potatoes, no not even gluten free versions) rather than fussy/purely preference. I do reassure them it’s not an allergy though and will explain why if they are interested or ask.

It’s an absolute bonus if they at least appreciate not everyone eat carbs the same way as not everyone eats meat. Not at all difficult really and some even offer it on their menus (Naked burgers/in a leaf, swap chips for salad or veg etc)

I do agree with everything you say, like I say I was playing devils advocate- I do not agree with those who call it an allergy though, it simply isn’t and it waters down the message for those with real allergies. I too have never had a refusal for swaps or changes, what a carbohydrate is and what contains carbs can be challenging for those who don’t really need to know. It’s far easier to say I don’t eat meat because meat is meat and not as a rule “hidden” or unrecognisable. Those dastardly carbs hide themselves almost everywhere lol

 

[Jo_the_boat]

You're right lovinglife, glucose intolerance is not an allergy. It was really an exercise in explaining how seriously some of us take our heath.

And yes, I can imagine how difficult it must be to cater for everyone safely at a function. In fact, I used to MC dinners and the complex food allergy requirements never really occurred to me.
I ate hundreds of mass-catered dinners (some quite 'posh') and there wasn't one that didn't contain a decent wodge of carb / sugar. But back then of course, I wasn't bothered.

 

[JoKalsbeek]

The other side of the coin (sort of playing devils advocate here) I have family and friends with eateries from restaurants to cafes, I worked all my life until I had my son in catering as a chef then management, hubby works for a multi national provider of food managing staff restaurants and events ranging from the extremely elite to the smallest factories.

It’s an absolute nightmare to try and cater for everyone, just the 14 allergens alone is a minefield, then there’s religious and cultural diets to consider, the labelling and information that has to be included changes all the time and costs some businesses thousands even millions to comply.

We need to be mindful that 99% of places will do their best to accommodate differences, not being able to eat carbs IS NOT an allergy, allergies are life threatening and very serious and can kill quickly, and staff quite rightly need to have awareness and training , eating more carbs than normal for one meal is not life threatening for a T2 diet only, you will not die from one meal!

I do not expect any member of staff to understand my diabetes and what I personally set my lifestyle to, why would they? You only have to look on this forum to see that it takes a while for anyone to grasp what carbs are and what they do to your blood sugar and that’s from people who have a vested interest. Also every single one of us that have diabetes of any type eat differently, some keto, some low carb, some moderate carb, some count carbs and use insulin ratios - (something I have no knowledge of, which proves my point)

There is no point in trying to educate and pontificate to hospitality staff about diabetes when you’re in their establishments, all you are doing is educating them about how YOU do it. We complain when people assume we can or can’t eat something but the person assuming is only going on a very thin knowledge gained from anecdotes from other customers.

I quite understand your point. I once had a girl almost in tears when I asked for a bratwurst without the bread. Saying the chef'd be mad at her if she accommodated my request. I told her I'd happily pay for the bread without having it. If added, I'd just throw it out, and it's perfectly good bread that someone else'd love to have. But if she really *needed* me to have the bread on my plate, fine. That seemed to relax her some. No problem after that, she just thought I wanted to pay less, poor thing, and she completely panicked. If it can't be done, it can't be done, and I completely understand that. I just wish some people weren't so mean about it, or snarky, or try to humiliate you either one on one or in front of others. I'll just go for a drink instead if I have to, but I can do without being humiliated. It's hard enough for me to talk to people in general. It happens rarely, but it does happen, every now and again. (And I do ask very nicely! I know I'm a pain in the ****! )

 

[lovinglife]

I just wish some people weren't so mean about it, or snarky, or try to humiliate you either one on one or in front of others. I'll just go for a drink instead if I have to, but I can do without being humiliated. It's hard enough for me to talk to people in general. It happens rarely, but it does happen, every now and again. (And I do ask very nicely! I know I'm a pain in the ****! )

Aww bless her, yes some chefs are a breed all of their own, I’ve worked both back and front of house with chefs that think they are the next Gordon Ramsey, if you’ve ever seen the film Boiling Point it depicts a busy restaurant kitchen perfectly- very stressful environment.

I totally agree with what you said above, no place for this kind of behaviour, and no your not a pain in the proverbial- I always preferred a customer who knows what they want and can articulate it! I’ll let you into a little secret-in the 90s customers like us were often referred to as a Sally (from the film When Harry Met Sally) remember her ordering food in a scene in a film? NOT the famous scene lol

“Check on, we’ve got a Sally in” haha

 

[FSnow]

Rather late to this discussion but as a long term type 2 I have travelled the world and seek out Italian restaurants. The trick is you need to find one that serves a traditional menu along side the pasta and pizza.

Caprice, olives etc for entrees and veal and or chicken for a main with garden vegetables. Lemone etc for a source.

Had a great meal last night at an Italian restaurant hot olives as a starter and chicken in a lemon sauce with garden vegetables not a potato in sight.

Hope this helps

 

[Gannet]

I was in a small cafe in London recently, and the menu was very carb heavy. I asked if there was anything I could have without the bread, and was told I could just choose any sandwich filling. I chose ham and cheese from the panini option, and it came in a little cardboard box. Delicious ham and loads of cheese. I’ll definitely go there again.

 

[bitofagit]

Eating out has, over time, become frustrating. Now that I have the T2 thingy hanging over me, eating out has become frustrating with an added dose of difficulty with regard to meal decision. Now add to that a lack of places worthy of actually being called a restaurant, we find ourselves saying, we eat better at home why go out?
Sounds very lack lustre when I re-read this, but to pay for ****food just to say I've eaten out when we can do better at home and have that T2 control over it as well ...........

It's just me, or is it?

Mod edit for language.

 

[In Response]

Eating out is beyond the food. I would not go to a restaurant with bad food but I also would not go to a restaurant with bad service or where it is too loud to hear my fellow diners no matter how good the food is.
I enjoy the experience of eating out. I enjoy the atmosphere of a bubbly restaurant. I enjoy a waiter explaining the dishes and helping me chose the wine to go with it. I enjoy socializing with friends. I enjoy getting out of the house. I enjoy not having to cook or clean up the mess afterwards. And I enjoy trying food I haven't had before.
I rarely get this from the type of big chain restaurants who publish their menu online. I am much more likely to experience it in a small independent restaurant with a creative chef who creates a menu based on what is available seasonably and cooked from scratch. The added advantage is that they can adapt the dishes rather than taking the prepared meal out of the freezer and putting it in the microwave.
I have to pay for this experience. But it is worth it.

 

[CatsFive]

Eating out has, over time, become frustrating. Now that I have the T2 thingy hanging over me, eating out has become frustrating with an added dose of difficulty with regard to meal decision. Now add to that a lack of places worthy of actually being called a restaurant, we find ourselves saying, we eat better at home why go out?
Sounds very lack lustre when I re-read this, but to pay for ****food just to say I've eaten out when we can do better at home and have that T2 control over it as well ...........

It's just me, or is it?

I only eat out at decent places to eat, it's never a cheap meal for me, so I don't do it very often!

And when I do, I don't worry hugely about what I eat. 6 times a year isn't going to be my downfall.

I will be eating out in early June, at the place in my village with an AA Rosette.

mod edit of quoted post

 

[HSSS]

Eating out has, over time, become frustrating. Now that I have the T2 thingy hanging over me, eating out has become frustrating with an added dose of difficulty with regard to meal decision. Now add to that a lack of places worthy of actually being called a restaurant, we find ourselves saying, we eat better at home why go out?
Sounds very lack lustre when I re-read this, but to pay for **** food just to say I've eaten out when we can do better at home and have that T2 control over it as well ...........

It's just me, or is it?

Not it’s not just you. I resent paying for **** food, worse than I get at home, and always have. And unfortunately that’s a lot of the places these days that are affordable to me. Add in low carb considerations and it isn’t as easy as it once was. I was a lot more cautious than most for a lot longer about eating out during the pandemic and have only just started going to less busy places more recently so have hugely got out of the habit anyway. I miss the ease I used to have with it all. There are workarounds and choices but I do have to be a lot more picky about where I go now that I demand edible real food I can afford rather than carby processed junk.

mod edit of quoted post , and response.

 

[bitofagit]

Unfortunately the days of being able to attend a really decent restaurant are few and far between, and frankly I have yet to find one within 30 mile radius of home and those that I have tried have failed to live up to their hype.
Eg; I went for coffee just before the diagnosis slap in the face, coffee was not offensive, the staff were excellent in their manner but the croissants?? To reach that stage of cardboard, they must have been sat there for more than 2 days, just solidifying. Therefore, the staff knew they were old but sold them anyway. Yes it was just a coffee house, but very indicative of the whole restaurant world around here.
Will never go back.
I had been living in France for some years and had acclimatised to that life style. Returning to UK has been disappointing.

 

[CatsFive]

Unfortunately the days of being able to attend a really decent restaurant are few and far between, and frankly I have yet to find one within 30 mile radius of home and those that I have tried have failed to live up to their hype.
Eg; I went for coffee just before the diagnosis slap in the face, coffee was not offensive, the staff were excellent in their manner but the croissants?? To reach that stage of cardboard, they must have been sat there for more than 2 days, just solidifying. Therefore, the staff knew they were old but sold them anyway. Yes it was just a coffee house, but very indicative of the whole restaurant world around here.
Will never go back.
I had been living in France for some years and had acclimatised to that life style. Returning to UK has been disappointing.

A decent place would bake their own, even if they didn't make them. The wee shop in the next village does that, and they are rather nice. I think they are made by Delice de France and they go to the shop frozen.

 

[MrsA2]

I had been living in France for some years and had acclimatised to that life style. Returning to UK has been disappointing

I think it would have been, even without the complications of being a low carber.
I worked in Italy where good, real food is cherished and normal. Coming back here was so disappointing . At least we can get decent ingredients now, albeit at a premium.
Just steer clear of any chain and slowly build a small group of good places so each time becomes a special occasion.
What part of the country are you in, someone might have some pointers for you locally?

 

[VashtiB]

(And I do ask very nicely! I know I'm a pain in the ****! )

I don't think you could be a pain in the *** if you tried

I still do find eating out challenging from time to time- I don't do it very often though I did before I was diagnosed. When I'm organising it I tend to suggest brunch and have something with eggs (eggs Benedict being something I think of as a treat and is available in a lot of places in Australia.

For dinner I stick to a meat based meal like grilled salmon or steak or something with salad.

I also think if more people asked for something low carb then in the future there will be more options.

 

[bitofagit]

Well MrsA2, at the mo' we live in Wales (which has a striking similarity to good auld Fr. in a number of ways) but we are on the move again, no idea where to (which is perculiar), just hope I have enough time to get it done (I am knocking on a bit)!

 

[Sax]

Until the NHS completes its slow pivot towards recognising low carb diets and begins pushing it publicly as the primary diet for diabetics, I don't expect anything from restaurants.

A customer claiming that their type 2 diabetes means they can't eat brown pasta may be right, but it is going to come across as a religious nut given what anyone will see on the NHS healthy eating and diabetes.org web pages on dietary guidance. In both cases low carb is recognised but shoved Harry Potter style under the stairs as the unwanted stepchild.

 

[lovinglife]

Until the NHS completes its slow pivot towards recognising low carb diets and begins pushing it publicly as the primary diet for diabetics, I don't expect anything from restaurants.

A customer claiming that their type 2 diabetes means they can't eat brown pasta may be right, but it is going to come across as a religious nut given what anyone will see on the NHS healthy eating and diabetes.org web pages on dietary guidance. In both cases low carb is recognised but shoved Harry Potter style under the stairs as the unwanted stepchild.

I never say I’m T2 when I’m eating out, I must be extremely lucky where I live even though it’s outside a very small city we have some great places to eat, I just say can I have a burger/steak/fish/chicken, no fries/chips/potatoes/rice/bread, can I have salad or extra veg I don’t eat carbs - never been questioned and I always get something lovely to eat

 

[Barba_Rossa]

A lot of Italian restaurants will have a grilled salmon or something similar tucked away on the menu, although I know there are some that seem to do just pizza and pasta and that’s it.

As others have said, I’ll always try to have a look at a menu in advance and find what I’m going to order - whether that’s an existing menu item that works or an adaption. I’ve accepted that in some places I might need to pay a bit extra for a couple of sides because they won’t always do straight swaps. I just go with it for the most part. I’m not drinking anymore so that saves a bit of money when eating out anyway.

I wouldn’t bother telling restaurant staff the reason for my slightly unusual requests. Partly because it’s none of their business but mostly because the chances of them linking diabetes and low carb are pretty slim.

If you select ‘diabetic meal’ on an airline for example you’ll still get potato or pasta and I wouldn’t expect a high street restaurant to be any more knowledgeable.

Worst case scenario - if the venue has been chosen and I really can’t eat a single thing on the menu, I’ll probably pass on that meal out. Nobody wants to do that but I’d rather miss out than sit not eating at the table looking like the odd one out. It doesn’t happen often though as I find most friends are pretty accommodating if I let them know a place is useless for me.

 

[CatsFive]

<snip>

Worst case scenario - if the venue has been chosen and I really can’t eat a single thing on the menu, I’ll probably pass on that meal out. Nobody wants to do that but I’d rather miss out than sit not eating at the table looking like the odd one out. It doesn’t happen often though as I find most friends are pretty accommodating if I let them know a place is useless for me.

I eat out so infrequently that I have what I want when out, including puddings. 4-5 meals a year isn't going to be my downfall.

 

[Barba_Rossa]

I eat out so infrequently that I have what I want when out, including puddings. 4-5 meals a year isn't going to be my downfall.

That’s certainly another option and if you’ve got the control to get straight back to it the next day I applaud you.

As someone who is on their second attempt to reverse Type 2 having slipped back into terrible eating habits I’m nervous about whether one meal would really stay as one meal. I know that in lockdown when I started to slip it was always one takeaway or one treat and over time it just became every day.

There will come a day when I need to test myself (likely at the end of July when I’m going to a wedding with a pretty tricky menu) but for now I’m avoiding it, mainly because it’s easier to ignore my own diet demons than to properly confront them.