Ever count the carbs you ate pre-diagnosis in comparison to today

[KK123]

It was a company called '23 and me' which is mainly used for looking at ancestry but there is also a medical element to it too if you opt for that.

Yep, I did too and I used that very same company..you're not one of my 4th removed relatives are you??? It was fascinating but you do have to be a person who is not going to get upset or worried by a 'faulty' gene or one that pops up showing you have a propensity towards some other health condition. Mine also popped up as a higher risk for diabetes!

 

[AndBreathe]

Thats really interesting. I didn't realize the gene for type 2 diabetes had been found. Where did you get your testing done? I have family members who would benefit from doing it.

Lucy, I just looked this up. I think this is the one @pre-predb referred to.

https://www.23andme.com/en-gb/dna-health-ancestry/

 

[Mr_Pot]

Well most people don't just cut out carbs. They replace them with protein and fats.

Without calculations and accurate records it's difficult to say, maybe @Ronancastled has enough information. In my case I gave up biscuits, cakes, desserts and pastry amongst other things and these contain fat as well as carbs, so I don't think I really eat much more fat and protein than I used to, just without the accompanying high carbs. I do eat a lot more low carb vegetables than I used to but they are also pretty low in calories. I certainly don't find I need to have cream in my coffee, put butter on everything or eat a lot of fatty meat to compensate for my moderately low carb diet.

 

[zand]

Without calculations and accurate records it's difficult to say, maybe @Ronancastled has enough information. In my case I gave up biscuits, cakes, desserts and pastry amongst other things and these contain fat as well as carbs, so I don't think I really eat much more fat and protein than I used to, just without the accompanying high carbs. I do eat a lot more low carb vegetables than I used to but they are also pretty low in calories. I certainly don't find I need to have cream in my coffee, put butter on everything or eat a lot of fatty meat to compensate for my moderately low carb diet.

Well that's you, not me. I had already mostly given up the things on your list 20 years before diagnosis as I was trying to lose weight. I had each of those things maybe twice a year.

 

[lucylocket61]

Without calculations and accurate records it's difficult to say, maybe @Ronancastled has enough information. In my case I gave up biscuits, cakes, desserts and pastry amongst other things and these contain fat as well as carbs, so I don't think I really eat much more fat and protein than I used to, just without the accompanying high carbs. I do eat a lot more low carb vegetables than I used to but they are also pretty low in calories. I certainly don't find I need to have cream in my coffee, put butter on everything or eat a lot of fatty meat to compensate for my moderately low carb diet.

While I respect your experiences, it wasnt mine. I have decades of accurate records. I rarely ate the things on your list anyway. I was low fat all the way too, so adding fats and more proteins more than compensated for my reduction in calories from carbs.

 

[Mbaker]

*Great thread especially in the light of posts that promote sugary diets to resolve diabetes. Your number of 528 grams of carbs I think I topped.

1. November 2014 no diabetes (but probably pre-diabetic) felt fine. Decided to get healthier:
2. Lots of fruit (grapes, bananas, oranges), low fat yogurt blueberry fruit corners, king size bowls of scotch porridge oats made with milk and cinnamon, white flour home pancakes with fresh lemon juice, home made soda bread, home made banana bread.
3. "Normal" dinners such as pasta bake, 2 x large jacket potatoes with various, home made dinners with rice, potatoes and end of week Chinese or fish and chips. Meals out.
4. Most expensive branded * orange and apple juice
5. Christmas "normal" treats - mince pies, toblerone, usual xmas tinned biscuits and chocolates

Over the next 6 weeks, I went from symptom less to extreme raging Type 2, with complications - the most notable being uncontrolled weeing, headaches, thirst, blurred vision, feet blisters, fatigue, significant weight gain - assumed cancer.

* The liquid carbs of orange juice and apple juice I know did the most damage as when I was thirsty, I drank more of these (I am surprised I did not end up in A & E as blood glucose was well over 20). It would not surprise me if I was closer to 7 - 800 carbs a day, as I was basically fruitarian with standard UK diet as supplement, the oats and pancakes alone would have been 100's of grams of carbs, very scary when you consider I never added sugar, honey or any sweet toppings.

 

[Deleted member 532959]

People who lose weight when adopting a low carb diet often say "I eat more calories than I used to" as a proof that calories don't matter. Judging from some of the previous diets above, I find it difficult to believe there hasn't been a reduction in calories as well as carbs. If, for example, someone has reduced their carbs by 400g per day that is also a reduction of 1,600 Calories per day.

Yup! Not only that, but people are not taking into account the huge amounts of fat. From the OP's carb calculations, they would've been hitting around 2000kcal, per-day, which is going to be close to many people's needs. Add to that the (I'd guess) couple of hundred grams of fat @9kcal, per gram, and it's easy to see how they became overweight

Looking at such a diet and blaming just carbs (or just fat for the PB crowd) is just absurd reductionism. The low-carbers say "Don't blame the meat for what the bun did", and the low-fat crowd say the same nonsense, only reversed.

There is a reason why those who either go to low-carb or low-fat find themselves losing a ton of weight, and for most end up reversing the symptoms of their metabolic disorders. The vegans want to say that fat is the reason people get fat, but ignore all those on keto losing weight. And certain of the LC/keto crowd want to blame it all on carbs, while mocking the preponderance of skinny vegans (A case of having one's low-carb cake and also wanting to eat it )

It ain't rocket surgery

 

[ianf0ster]

Yup! Not only that, but people are not taking into account the huge amounts of fat. From the OP's carb calculations, they would've been hitting around 2000kcal, per-day, which is going to be close to many people's needs. Add to that the (I'd guess) couple of hundred grams of fat @9kcal, per gram, and it's easy to see how they became overweight

Looking at such a diet and blaming just carbs (or just fat for the PB crowd) is just absurd reductionism. The low-carbers say "Don't blame the meat for what the bun did", and the low-fat crowd say the same nonsense, only reversed.

There is a reason why those who either go to low-carb or low-fat find themselves losing a ton of weight, and for most end up reversing the symptoms of their metabolic disorders. The vegans want to say that fat is the reason people get fat, but ignore all those on keto losing weight. And certain of the LC/keto crowd want to blame it all on carbs, while mocking the preponderance of skinny vegans (A case of having one's low-carb cake and also wanting to eat it )

It ain't rocket surgery

It is hugely difficult because people (not just Type 2's are different).
For example both @Jim Lahey and I are/were Thin Outside Fat inside. This means we were in the 10% to 15% of slim Type 2 diabetics. Most of the comments about having to reduce calories (rather than just carbs) in order to lose weight come from the other 85% to 90% of Type 2's who are/were very overweight. This makes a huge difference.

Why? - because those who have been substantially overweight for many years have likely wrecked their resting metabolic rates by failed attempts to get to normal weight by conventional low calorie dieting. Neither Jim nor I had any experience of putting our bodies into a semi-permanent starvation mode so that even a small increase from ultra low to more normal calorie intake results in unwanted weight gain rather than increased energy and brain function.

In my case I wasn't just eating low fat, I was eating so little fat and no added table sugar that it would have been almost impossible to cut those further. It used to take my wife and I several years to use a standard 2lb bag of sugar even when she was baking regularly! So the idea that in reducing the carbs I also reduced calories from fat is just ridiculous, especially since going Low Carb freed me up to eat cheese (which I love) and eggs and brazil nuts so although I no longer eat over 200gms of cheese per day I still average around 100gms so that is an extra 100 calories of protein and 315 calories of fat in just a few minutes. where the same weight of wholemeal bread would be fewer calories, plus I find it much easier to over-indulge in cheese than in bread (I could always take it or leave it before my GP told me to eat it).

 

[Deleted member 532959]

It is hugely difficult because people (not just Type 2's are different).
For example both @Jim Lahey and I are/were Thin Outside Fat inside. This means we were in the 10% to 15% of slim Type 2 diabetics. Most of the comments about having to reduce calories (rather than just carbs) in order to lose weight come from the other 85% to 90% of Type 2's who are/were very overweight. This makes a huge difference.

Why? - because those who have been substantially overweight for many years have likely wrecked their resting metabolic rates by failed attempts to get to normal weight by conventional low calorie dieting. Neither Jim nor I had any experience of putting our bodies into a semi-permanent starvation mode so that even a small increase from ultra low to more normal calorie intake results in unwanted weight gain rather than increased energy and brain function.

In my case I wasn't just eating low fat, I was eating so little fat and no added table sugar that it would have been almost impossible to cut those further. It used to take my wife and I several years to use a standard 2lb bag of sugar even when she was baking regularly! So the idea that in reducing the carbs I also reduced calories from fat is just ridiculous, especially since going Low Carb freed me up to eat cheese (which I love) and eggs and brazil nuts so although I no longer eat over 200gms of cheese per day I still average around 100gms so that is an extra 100 calories of protein and 315 calories of fat in just a few minutes. where the same weight of wholemeal bread would be fewer calories, plus I find it much easier to over-indulge in cheese than in bread (I could always take it or leave it before my GP told me to eat it).

I was very specifically referring to people, such as the OP, who got very overweight eating way past their energy requirements on 1000's of calories of junk, but blame the carbs for all their issues. I managed to get to 19-stone at my highest, eating the same kind of ****. Blaming fat for that would also, even mathematically-speaking, would be incorrect.

 

[Member496333]

It is hugely difficult because people (not just Type 2's are different).
For example both @Jim Lahey and I are/were Thin Outside Fat inside. This means we were in the 10% to 15% of slim Type 2 diabetics. Most of the comments about having to reduce calories (rather than just carbs) in order to lose weight come from the other 85% to 90% of Type 2's who are/were very overweight. This makes a huge difference.

Why? - because those who have been substantially overweight for many years have likely wrecked their resting metabolic rates by failed attempts to get to normal weight by conventional low calorie dieting. Neither Jim nor I had any experience of putting our bodies into a semi-permanent starvation mode so that even a small increase from ultra low to more normal calorie intake results in unwanted weight gain rather than increased energy and brain function.

In my case I wasn't just eating low fat, I was eating so little fat and no added table sugar that it would have been almost impossible to cut those further. It used to take my wife and I several years to use a standard 2lb bag of sugar even when she was baking regularly! So the idea that in reducing the carbs I also reduced calories from fat is just ridiculous, especially since going Low Carb freed me up to eat cheese (which I love) and eggs and brazil nuts so although I no longer eat over 200gms of cheese per day I still average around 100gms so that is an extra 100 calories of protein and 315 calories of fat in just a few minutes. where the same weight of wholemeal bread would be fewer calories, plus I find it much easier to over-indulge in cheese than in bread (I could always take it or leave it before my GP told me to eat it).

In the setting of existing diabetic pathology - either diagnosed or in-situ - I believe the takeaway point from dropping carbohydrate specifically is that we remove a gallon of 24/7 circulating insulin. In doing so we enable our bodies to burn stored energy and give the liver some breathing room. However, the body won't want to burn stored energy if we then begin or continue to consume too much. But then we must consider that in repairing our resting metabolism, our appetite now works as nature intended, uncorrupted by endocrine imbalance. Thus our bodies are now able to settle into a desirable metabolic homeostasis without the aid of scales and spreadsheets.

I'm pretty sure we'll be reprimanded for going off topic soon, so that's the extent of my contribution to that subject in this thread.

 

[lucylocket61]

I was very specifically referring to people, such as the OP, who got very overweight eating way past their energy requirements on 1000's of calories of junk, but blame the carbs for all their issues. I managed to get to 19-stone at my highest, eating the same kind of ****. Blaming fat for that would also, even mathematically-speaking, would be incorrect.

You appear to disregard and disbelieve that carb regulation dysfunction is at the heart of much of the trigger and weight gain involved in most type 2 diabetes. Most of your posts in this thread are an incoherent mix unrelated matters.

I don't know why you are bringing fats into this at all. The subject heading is about carbs

I also wish to point out that many vegans, like most of the population, are not type 2 diabetics, so a sweeping generalisation about the body type of them is irrelevant.

 

[Mbaker]

More high carb apologism. It doesn't work in a modern context. Pacific Islanders who in the past have made a high carb diet work do not have western oils, grains and sugar; if they did they would also be broken and not be able to continue to have natural six packs. They do not try to re-create say their fish produce with alternative ingredients and expect health and parity.

In a modern context it's the carbs in the form of sweets, crisps, coatings such as bread crumbs, cakes with the flour, veg oil and sugars, bread or chips with everything and so on; this destroys glucose and insulin control, which then makes whole food carbs such as potato and rice "bad" as well. This has happened across each continent.

No Type 2 on this site has been able to show great results let alone remission on a high carb diet, whilst both high fat and high protein have A1C's below 6.

 

[Deleted member 532959]

I don't know why you are bringing fats into this at all. The subject heading is about carbs

The OP seems to be blaming carbs for being both very overweight and diabetic, yet all the foods they eat are a crazy. ultra-processed mix of refined carbs and fats. So, I didn't bring fats into the conversation...they were already there. I just pointed that out.

If someone is already stating they're eating circa 2000 calories in carbs, what are they expecting is going to happen with the other 1000-15000kcal of fats?

I also wish to point out that many vegans, like most of the population, are not type 2 diabetics, so a sweeping generalisation about the body type of them is irrelevant.

The sweeping generalisation is not mine. Many non/anti-vegans criticise vegans for being skinny, while wanting to maintain the position that carbs are uniquely and inherently fattening.

 

[Jaylee]

Lovely people,

This where the derailing & bickering stops.

Quite simply the topic "Ever count the carbs you ate pre-diagnosis in comparison to today"
Asks, for a pre diagnosis count up regarding carbohydrates.

Thanks in advance for your compliance.