Extended fasting

[Jamesuk9]

When I fast for more than 12 hours or restrict carbs in my diet my fasting numbers are always higher and then slowly climb the longer I fast.

I've never been an eater, I see eating as an inconvenience and not something I enjoy really.

For most of my adult working life (30)yrs, I've been a once a day eater as work was always hectic and I never could face breakfast.

Anyway, after an a1c of 38 but a fasting level of 6.7 and being told don't worry you're not diabetic I wasn't satisfied and wanted some answers so I bought my own meter and have been watching closely.

If I eat normal carbs in an evening I respond pretty much within expected parameters and if I have a carb snack around 10pm I wake to fasting numbers around 5.0-5.5 most days.

If however I severely restrict carbs the day before and have no snack before bed I wake to anywhere between 6.0 and 6.7.

After a day of restricted carbs yesterday I woke to 6.2 this morning and immediately had a yogurt drink containing 10g carbs of which about 9g sugar. I was at 7.8 at 1 hour and then 5.8, 5.4, 5.2, 4.8 in the subsequent 4 hours.

Then I went for a 3 mile 40 minute brisk walk and returned to a level of 5.4, which then climbed to 6 within the next 2 hours.

I then ate a chocolate digestive, 10g carbs and checked an hour later and was at 6.2.

I've discussed this briefly with my doctor who insists that the longer I don't eat, the higher it will go and dismissed any concerns I have about Prediabetes.

Any input will be greatly appreciated, I seem to respond reasonably well to carbs and don't eat to excess but am concerned about the fasting numbers.

It just seems odd to me that I get lower morning numbers if I eat more carbs the day before.

I've lost 1 and half stone and am at 22.5 BMI now and am much more active but it seems the less I eat, the higher the numbers go.

All very baffling.

 

[Lamont D]

When I fast for more than 12 hours or restrict carbs in my diet my fasting numbers are always higher and then slowly climb the longer I fast.

I've never been an eater, I see eating as an inconvenience and not something I enjoy really.

For most of my adult working life (30)yrs, I've been a once a day eater as work was always hectic and I never could face breakfast.

Anyway, after an a1c of 38 but a fasting level of 6.7 and being told don't worry you're not diabetic I wasn't satisfied and wanted some answers so I bought my own meter and have been watching closely.

If I eat normal carbs in an evening I respond pretty much within expected parameters and if I have a carb snack around 10pm I wake to fasting numbers around 5.0-5.5 most days.

If however I severely restrict carbs the day before and have no snack before bed I wake to anywhere between 6.0 and 6.7.

After a day of restricted carbs yesterday I woke to 6.2 this morning and immediately had a yogurt drink containing 10g carbs of which about 9g sugar. I was at 7.8 at 1 hour and then 5.8, 5.4, 5.2, 4.8 in the subsequent 4 hours.

Then I went for a 3 mile 40 minute brisk walk and returned to a level of 5.4, which then climbed to 6 within the next 2 hours.

I then ate a chocolate digestive, 10g carbs and checked an hour later and was at 6.2.

I've discussed this briefly with my doctor who insists that the longer I don't eat, the higher it will go and dismissed any concerns I have about Prediabetes.

Any input will be greatly appreciated, I seem to respond reasonably well to carbs and don't eat to excess but am concerned about the fasting numbers.

It just seems odd to me that I get lower morning numbers if I eat more carbs the day before.

I've lost 1 and half stone and am at 22.5 BMI now and am much more active but it seems the less I eat, the higher the numbers go.

All very baffling.

It's not that baffling, if you understand why you have a liver and how it provides your body with what it needs when you don't eat or fast.

The morning thing is natural, it is called Dawn phenomenon.
Your liver gives you a boost to start the day.

If you don't eat and because your brain needs glucose to function properly as you would wish and its not that much, your liver will intervene and supply you with the necessary glucose. It is called Glucogenesis. Your body can fast and this necessary step is natural and normal!

Best wishes.

 

[Jamesuk9]

Thanks for explaining. So, even though on restricted carbs and diet the fasting numbers climb way higher, I'm not sending my a1c in the wrong direction?

I'd just like tighter control over these fasting numbers as I understand that A dx comes with a fasting number over 7?

I'm wondering if forcing myself to eat every morning would be beneficial long term?

 

[azure]

I think you've received possible explanations in your earlier thread @Jamesuk9

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/totally-bewildered-by-my-doctor.114492/

Perhaps you could try eating breakfast and see how it goes? It may be that having 3 smaller meals rather than one larger one suits you best

 

[Jamesuk9]

Yes I did thanks... I just don't really understand the thought process behind LCHF if all it seems to do is raise my fasting numbers. Defies logic that the more carbs I eat the lower my base line and fasting goes.

I'll stop asking questions now and try to figure it out.

 

[azure]

Everybody and every body is different @Jamesuk9

Eat what works for you - that's the most important thing

The Low Carb programme here allows up to 130g carbs a day.

 

[Lamont D]

Yes I did thanks... I just don't really understand the thought process behind LCHF if all it seems to do is raise my fasting numbers. Defies logic that the more carbs I eat the lower my base line and fasting goes.

I'll stop asking questions now and try to figure it out.

A lot depends on how body copes with different types of foods, you may have a starch intolerance or a grain intolerance, you won't know until you discover what you tolerate better. Every type of food is different for all of us!

Not eating breakfast is another idea, if you can.
If you are eating cereals every day, then try something else like bacon and eggs.
What you eat will determine your blood glucose levels.

 

[Jamesuk9]

A lot depends on how body copes with different types of foods, you may have a starch intolerance or a grain intolerance, you won't know until you discover what you tolerate better. Every type of food is different for all of us!

Not eating breakfast is another idea, if you can.
If you are eating cereals every day, then try something else like bacon and eggs.
What you eat will determine your blood glucose levels.

I never eat breakfast. For decades I've eaten once a day mostly. Perhaps I just don't eat enough maybe. I've lost considerable weight over 8 weeks taking my BMI from 25.2 to 22.5 just by reducing portion size and lowering carb intake wherever possible. Just it seems it's sending my numbers in the wrong direction and I was concerned about the influence on a1c.

I guess it's highly possible that after years of fasting all day that my body has just become accustomed to it and the raised fasting is a consequence.

I'll try eating twice a day and keep an eye on it for a while I guess.

 

[Lamont D]

I never eat breakfast. For decades I've eaten once a day mostly. Perhaps I just don't eat enough maybe. I've lost considerable weight over 8 weeks taking my BMI from 25.2 to 22.5 just by reducing portion size and lowering carb intake wherever possible. Just it seems it's sending my numbers in the wrong direction and I was concerned about the influence on a1c.

I guess it's highly possible that after years of fasting all day that my body has just become accustomed to it and the raised fasting is a consequence.

I'll try eating twice a day and keep an eye on it for a while I guess.

I'm still learning and adjusting my food intake, I have a lot of intolerance to certain types of food. And I'm finding out things that I would never have believed.
Sometimes I just think my body would be better without food altogether, as I seem to have more energy and brain function when fasting!
Weird eh?

 

[Jamesuk9]

I'm still learning and adjusting my food intake, I have a lot of intolerance to certain types of food. And I'm finding out things that I would never have believed.
Sometimes I just think my body would be better without food altogether, as I seem to have more energy and brain function when fasting!
Weird eh?

Makes perfect sense to me. I have no appetite whatsoever to be honest and am forcing myself to try and eat something.

I actually would prefer to just be sustained with fuel intravenously and then not have to think about it. The thought of learning to cook is rather daunting.

 

[Resurgam]

One of the rules of the Atkins way of eating is to eat regularly, fasting no more than 6 hours, when awake. I think it is to give reassurance that food is available, so you don't need to store away every grain of carb as fat, and don't need to prepare to chase down your next meal.

 

[azure]

Makes perfect sense to me. I have no appetite whatsoever to be honest and am forcing myself to try and eat something.

I actually would prefer to just be sustained with fuel intravenously and then not have to think about it. The thought of learning to cook is rather daunting.

Do you mean no appetite at all at any time? There are certain vitamin/mineral deficiencies that can cause a lack of appetite (as well as other things obviously) Then it becomes a bit of a vicious circle - missing meals, missing nutrients.

 

[Jamesuk9]

Do you mean no appetite at all at any time? There are certain vitamin/mineral deficiencies that can cause a lack of appetite (as well as other things obviously) Then it becomes a bit of a vicious circle - missing meals, missing nutrients.

Yea pretty much, always been the same most of my life. That's how I find it hard to comprehend my current situation.

If I'm stressed or anxious, appetite goes first.

Although, I just had chicken and salad and enjoyed a small portion.

I am taking supplements lately though to help.

Solgar vm-75, 10billion CFU probiotics twice daily, mastic gum, vit d3, magnesium, Grape seed extract and Coq10 and Braggs acv. Have BP issues too but under control now most of the time with diet, exercise and supplements.

I'm a primary carer for my disabled adult son and teenage autistic son. Health anxiety is not helping as I worry constantly for their future if anything happened to me.

 

[azure]

It's good you're taking supplements. It sounds like you have a busy life. I can imagine how the responsibilities you have must make you anxious about your health. That's completely understandable.

Think of food like medicine maybe? Every meal or snack is an opportunity to get some good nutrition in

There's nothing wrong with little meals if that's what you can manage. I'm glad you enjoyed your salad

 

[Jamesuk9]

It's good you're taking supplements. It sounds like you have a busy life. I can imagine how the responsibilities you have must make you anxious about your health. That's completely understandable.

Think of food like medicine maybe? Every meal or snack is an opportunity to get some good nutrition in

There's nothing wrong with little meals if that's what you can manage. I'm glad you enjoyed your salad

Thanks, there is actally one positive though.

Elimination of wheat and grains and carb restriction has calmed down my recent GI symptoms considerably. Had no bloating or bad aches for 3 days now and it was a constant daily battle for a long time.

Sometimes there is a positive when you least expect it.

 

[Jamesuk9]

Oh and I'm also sleeping much better, managed to go a full seven hours last night until the alarm clock at 7 without waking up for a slash. For years I'd wake every hour or 3 and never felt completely rested.

 

[Kristin251]

Sometimes something very small like a few nuts or half of a hard boiled egg or a few slices of avocado is enough to elicit and insulin response and not raise bs but raise a little insulin to stop the rise. If I don't eat something right away I just keep climbing and climbing. I could skip lunch and stay steady bun not bf.

 

[Jamesuk9]

Sometimes something very small like a few nuts or half of a hard boiled egg or a few slices of avocado is enough to elicit and insulin response and not raise bs but raise a little insulin to stop the rise. If I don't eat something right away I just keep climbing and climbing. I could skip lunch and stay steady bun not bf.

Yes, I have noticed that. Even something small halts the rise and sends it back south for a while. Little and often could be sustainable for me.

 

[Lamont D]

Oh and I'm also sleeping much better, managed to go a full seven hours last night until the alarm clock at 7 without waking up for a slash. For years I'd wake every hour or 3 and never felt completely rested.

It is surprising how much difference you can make to your health by eliminating or reducing foods that should be good for you.
I have discovered that foods that inhibit insulin response are the best for me!
Sleep is so important to recovery from ill health! Regardless of how severe the condition is!

 

[Bluetit1802]

Thanks for explaining. So, even though on restricted carbs and diet the fasting numbers climb way higher, I'm not sending my a1c in the wrong direction?

I'd just like tighter control over these fasting numbers as I understand that A dx comes with a fasting number over 7?

I'm wondering if forcing myself to eat every morning would be beneficial long term?

Diagnosis of diabetes will NEVER be made on a high fasting level alone. That went out of the window years ago. It is always followed up with an HbA1c, and if necessary a second HbA1c a couple of weeks later, or an oral glucose tolerance test. All this before diagnosis. So no need to worry on that score.

Often for many people it isn't necessary to eat breakfast, but best to have something fatty such as a coffee with cream or a lump of cheese dipped in mayo, which should stop any liver dump in its tracks, and then have some sort of lunch and then evening meal. No need for supper.