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Fast 800

Discussion in 'Type 2 Diabetes' started by ExChocoholic, Aug 13, 2019.

  1. ExChocoholic

    ExChocoholic Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Does anyone have experience of the Fast 800 diet plan? I am T2 diagnosed 12 years - at 5'5" 9.5 stone- tummy fat is my issue and mo matter how I try I cannot seem to get my BS under control. Seriously thinking of trying this programme https://programme.thefast800.com/product/fast800-membership/
    Cost £99 for support and diet suggestions. My daughter says it is Keto and as I have stage 3 kidney disease it may not be for me. She is on keto and takes electrolytes as a supplement, her issues different to mine though her BS spike and fall. She has thyroid disease and is trying to lose weight.

    Any advice is most welcome - thanks.
     
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  2. Resurgam

    Resurgam Type 2 (in remission!) · Expert

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    I think that a lot of the information about weightloss being essential just muddies the waters when it comes to type two diabetes - can you give more details of what has not worked in controlling your blood glucose, as there might be something you could try that comes for free.
    Your daughter is right about the inadvisability of doing some diets - but there might be something...
    What/how are you eating at the moment?
     
  3. Goonergal

    Goonergal Type 2 · Moderator
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    Hi @ExChocoholic

    I don’t have any experience of the programme you link to. However, I’d be very wary as there is very little information offered for you to review before committing your money.

    What have you tried so far to try and get your BG under control? Are you taking any diabetes medication? The kidney disease may complicate things (I don’t know whether keto is an issue with that) but it may be that members on here can make suggestions that might be helpful.
     
  4. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Master

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    This is just the Newcastle Diet in a slighty different format set up to make Dr Moseley some more dosh.
    You could buy the book for £6.11 on amazon and buy yourself some steaks with the remaining £90?
     
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  5. Expresso

    Expresso · Newbie

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    I was diagnosed 8 months ago.
    I too have the tummy fat problem (it's my father's fault! Genetically speaking)
    Been trying the 5:2 diet for 7 weeks and lost 12 lbs, but been learning also about hidden carbs so trying to reduce them too now as my weight loss stalled.
    On my 800 calorie days, my blood sugar regularly drops to just over 4, but I don't seem to suffer any particular issues with this.
    Also learned to read food labels very carefully, having been caught out by kcal/100g and total kcal on some labels!
     
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  6. CondorX

    CondorX Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Michael Moseley's Blood Sugar Diet and the Fast 800 are very similar. Both have websites with quite a lot of free info and the books are available on Amazon quite inexpensively - both have recipe books to go with the original books. I have the Blood Sugar Diet books, which I found really helpful when I first set out. Essentially, it is a low carb diet with calorie content around 800 a day, just like the Fast 800. It does work, but you definitely do not have to pay £99 to be successful on it, in the same way you don't need to pay the Diet Doctor website subscription to benefit from the site, or indeed this site's much-advertised Low Carb Programme, which is also not free.

    Anyone with stage 3 CKD needs to be very careful indeed of high protein intake and salt intake - the kidneys are very compromised and high protein diets could cause kidney failure. so a modified keto diet with limited protein intake MIGHT be suitable for weight loss for someone with stage 3 CKD but really does need proper advice from a dietician / nutririonist who actually knows what they are talking about (hard to find unfortunately but must be some somewhere !)
     
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  7. Antje77

    Antje77 LADA · Moderator
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    It shouldn't, as it's a perfecly healthy blood sugar :)
     
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  8. ianf0ster

    ianf0ster Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    You have already been advised by BulkBiker (in an earlier thread) to cut down on carbs, yet you were happy to eat both corn and Sweet Potato at the same meal. Low GI doesn't mean that the carbs down raise your BG - it just means it takes longer, so either you get the same spike later, or you get a longer lightly raised BG!
    What makes you think that you are an exception?

    Crash diets are proven to fail in the vast majority of cases - particularly for people who think they can 'cheat'.

    Your Kidney problem means that High Protein is not good for you. You should already know that high or even normal carbs are bad for you. That only leaves one Macro nutrient source - Fats!
    I was barely overweight when diagnosed, on 'do it yourself' Low Carb High Fat (and I mean High Fat - lots of Olive Oil drizzled over everything, over 200gms of cheese every day, lot of brazil and walnuts). I brought my pre and post prandial BG figures down dramatically. At first I lost between 1 and 2lbs per week with no hunger, no extra exercise and probably consuming more calories than before!
    Since then I have cut down on the cheese a bit, but still don't' get hungrier than on a normal diet and I am still slowly losing weight and have now lost 17lbs - which is more than the 10% of my original body weight.

    Get yourself a meter if you don't have one - test before and after every meal (at 2hrs after first bite, if you eat a little high GI carbs then also test at 1hr after, if you eat a little low GI carbs then also test at 3hrs after (where possible).
     
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  9. ExChocoholic

    ExChocoholic Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I no longer eat these! I understand high fat but how does that work with cholesterol? Serious question not a jibe!
     
  10. ExChocoholic

    ExChocoholic Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Sorry I didn't make it clear. I weigh 9.5 am 5.5 inches- so only want to lose 14lbs tops but from tummy only.
     
  11. ExChocoholic

    ExChocoholic Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Sorry - where did I say this 'What makes you think that you are an exception?'
     
  12. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Master

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    "Cholesterol" is irrelevant.
     
  13. ShortStuff

    ShortStuff · Well-Known Member

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    As others have said, the book is cheap enough & there’s plenty of advice on their website and other websites, you really don’t need to join the program to do it.

    Again as others have said, it’s just an update on the blood sugar /5:2 books.

    Basically low carb, time restricted eating & keeping your calories low too

    Which seems, for me, to be necessary - just low carb (under 30g) isn’t enough for me to lose weight (but it is to control my bg)

    Cholesterol - do some reading if you’re genuinely worried . For me, there is enough evidence to say that what we eat isn’t the issue, it’s what our bodies make and even that isn’t actually as issue. Anecdotally, my cholesterol level dropped when I started low carbing and eating more of the supposedly cholesterol raising food than I’d ever eaten before!

    If you want to do more research on fasting without paying anything, watch Jason Fung on youtube - all you need to know & more, right there!!
     
  14. ianf0ster

    ianf0ster Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I will be testing that out for real in just under 1 week.
    Since I am still in 'weight loss mode' - even though I'm not overweight, on the LCHF my LDL would normally be extr high (old LDL released from stored Fat as the fat is removed to be used to fuel the body.
    This causes me a problem with my GP since I was already on Statins and due to the T2D diagnosis I managed to get that Statin dose cut in half. (Statins increase Blood Glucose !)

    So a higher LDL figure may cause my GP to pressure me about the Statin dosage again.
    What to do ?
    Answer : Try the Dave Feldman Protocol. It has a very high success rate in causing a dramatic short term reduction in LDL and only takes 3 days. All I have to do is stick to my normal LCHF but gorge on Fat for 3 days before it, making the body think there is a surplus of energy available and so not remove any stored fat.
    The way the Lipid tests work, the dietary (i.e. from cheese, avocado, nuts, olive oil) fat is not measured.- Perfect!
    Dave and over 300 others have done this multiple times and it works!

    Wish me luck, though I shouldn't need it.
     
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  15. ianf0ster

    ianf0ster Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    You didn't specifically say it, but you (in the other thread) were going contrary to the practical experience of thousands of Type 2's and insisting that Low GI Carbs were OK !
    How it that different for claiming that you are exceptional ?
     
  16. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Moderator
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    Hi @exchoc

    Am I right that you would be aiming at two different things? 'Reversal' and weight loss from the tummy area?

    Because 'reversal' is something that can only happen if a number of circumstances align - these include having enough insulin production left to cope with our ongoing carb intake, having a pancreas and liver that are not fatty any more, and continuing an eating regime that does not overload that capacity.

    When Professor Taylor began the Newcastle Diet studies, he quickly learned (1st study) and confirmed (2nd study) that the longer a T2 has been diagnosed, and the longer they have had a fatty liver, then the less likely they will experience 'reversal'. Yes, they may well lose significant amounts of weight, and yes, their blood glucose control may improve. But actual 'reversal' according to the study criteria? That became less likely, the longer the diagnosis. I believe that 4 years and under produced the best 'reversal' stats, with decreasing chance of 'reversal' as the length of diabetes increased. Although some participants did 'reverse' after significant numbers of years, so it is always possible! :)

    So your 12 years of T2 may place you at a bit of a disadvantage. Please understand, I am not saying this to put you off trying, just to suggest that you temper your expectations, so that you don't feel crashingly disappointed if you don't achieve 'reversal'.

    My second point is that there is a big difference between subcutaneous fat and visceral fat. Visceral fat (fat in and around the organs such as the pancreas, liver, kidneys and heart) is more important to our health than subcutaneous fat (fat under the skin). This is why being Thin Outside, Fat Inside (TOFI) is such a health risk.

    If you lose weight overall, then you will lose both types of fat, but I am not sure that there is any calculation that you can do to anticipate how much apple shape fat you would need to lose to achieve the necessary visceral fat loss, and we are all different in the amount of visceral fat we require to impair our glucose regulation.

    And finally, I am not aware of any studies or findings proving that these rapid crash diets are any more effective at 'reversing' than a slower low carb weight loss way of eating. Yes, you get the results a bit faster, but there are plenty of studies around now showing that low carb is just as effective at de-fattifying the liver as other, more extreme calorie restriction diets.

    I would be very wary of any diet regime that required a £99 up front fee, but then I am aware of how easy it is to source excellent low carb blood glucose controlling information on the internet. Mind you, I can see that the mindset of 'I paid a fortune for this! So I am bloomin' well going to get my money's worth!' might be a motivational tool. :)
     
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  17. SarahEN

    SarahEN · Active Member

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    I have been following it on my GP's advice since I was diagnosed at the beginning on June & have found i have lost weight. But still a month away from my 2nd BG test so no clue how my BS is.

    It isn't quite Keto - you can eat a few more carbs than that but it is moderate protein, low carb.

    You can buy the book for about a tenner. I'd never consider paying the subscription. The basic principles are pretty simple & its fairly easy to get your head round - which makes it about the only thing easy to understand as a newly diagnosed diabetic tbh . The book is called the blood sugar diet

    But - it is absolutely not suitable for everyone & if you have an underlying health condition I'm not sure it is a good idea. Moreover, if you take anything other than Metformin they expressly say to discuss with your GP first.

    Definitely do not start it without discussing with them & absolutely don't part with £100!
     
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  18. JoKalsbeek

    JoKalsbeek Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    Most cholesterol we make ourselves, in our liver, it doesn't come from what we eat in all that significant quantities. As you lose weight, your liver will shed some cholesterol so it'll go up a bit, but that's because it's on its way out. (It was already in your body, but won't show up in your blood tests until it's headed for the exit). As your weight stabilises after a little while, the cholesterol'll go down too. I mean... I'm eating bacon once or twice a day, on top of a bunch of good fats like nuts, fish and what have you, and my cholesterol's fine. Haven't taken a statin in 3 years. I'm not alone in this either. So that's what's meant with "Cholesterol is irrelevant". It really is, unless you have familial high cholesterol and a pre-existing heart condition, as that changes things. As for the diet.... Just go for low carb, high fat, moderate to low protein... If you go with that, you usually eat fewer overly processed foods, meaning you'll ingest less salts as it is, making your kidneys happy. Just don't overdo it on the protein (and don't start on the protein shakes!!!!!), and get your kidney function tested regularly.
     
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  19. ringi

    ringi Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, disagree, as he also talks about the need to avoid high carb food, and intermittent fasting. I got no idea how good the support is on his program, however, his book is reasonable. Not my chosen way as I am of the "very low carb" don't limit other foods mindset, but many people get great results from his books.

    Not a good option for someone who is not in great health.
     
  20. ianf0ster

    ianf0ster Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Why do you say that?
    None of us qualify for being in great health in here, but After my CAB x3, Diabetes is my only ailment and I fully expect that is on its way out since my BG is well controlled, though possibly still in the 'pre-diabetic' region.
     
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