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Fasting Insulin Tests - NHS says no...

Discussion in 'Diabetes Discussions' started by bulkbiker, May 21, 2018.

  1. EllsKBells

    EllsKBells Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    There was some work done in the States about measuring it with PET and some metabolic testing, but that doesn't seem to have gone anywhere. Mostly, it would be done using histological sections - i.e. chopping the pancreas up into lots of little bits. I assume you are fairly attached to the accursed organ?
     
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  2. Bluetit1802

    Bluetit1802 Type 2 (in remission!) · Guru

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    I sent for the Medichecks package and showed it my DN. She examined the contents and said everything needed to draw the blood was there. She was very impressed with it all, and fully supported my decision to have the test, but after asking someone outside the room she apologised profusely that she herself couldn't do it. The reason was insurance related. However, she gave me the details of a local private GP who they use occasionally for specialist tests, and said she would do it for me. Before I could arrange all this I had my funny turns and ended up in hospital. I still have the unused package.
     
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  3. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    Hi sorry no it just had the vial.. which was pretty much the same as the NHS ones. The phleb had her needle in me so just attached the vial after she had filled the others.
     
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  4. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    whereas I just avoid the carbs altogether..
     
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  5. millenium

    millenium Carer · Well-Known Member

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    This is how most lchf dieter succeed. Just take out all the carb food.

    By the way, do u go into ketosis?
     
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  6. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    I hope to be in ketosis for most of the time..
    Edit to add blood ketones just tested 2.5
     
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  7. Salvia

    Salvia Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    Apols for the off-topic comment (I've been following the thread, whilst trying to build up courage to have a go at fasting longer than a day :nailbiting::nailbiting: ); to answer this question:

    When I had a fasting insulin/insulin resistance test early March, the kit, (from Medichecks), came with all the stuff needed for the blood samples - a whole needle (not just a point), a vacuum insert (I think that's what it's called - used to cease the blood flow whilst a filled vial is being capped before filling the next vial), plus 2 vials needed for the tests. I timed it for when I was having my annual bloods taken at the GP surgery. In the event, the nurse just used the NHS needle to draw the the bloods she needed, as well as the two for my Medichecks tests. I didn't ask beforehand, just presented them for filling, with a brief explanation that I was getting some tests done for myself. She took a look over them & pronounced everything ok, then went ahead and drew the bloods, 2 for her and 2 for me. The spare stuff from Medichecks she put in the sharps box (though I suggested she might want to use them because they were the same as NHS ones, brand new & unused - but no, she preferred the NHS ones.)

    I have one very large vein by my elbow that makes any nurse's eyes light up with delight! just like a pinball machine - so I guess that helps a lot :)

    Perhaps they've changed their process a little, since they first began offering these tests.

    p.s. Duh! Just realised this isn't the fasting thread, so not off topic!! (put it down to brain fug, which anyone can see hasn't improved much!) I'll leave it though - otherwise could cause even more confusion ;)
     
    #47 Salvia, May 22, 2018 at 3:08 PM
    Last edited: May 22, 2018
  8. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    Actually thinking back and after reading @Salvia 's post I think there may have been a butterfly needle in the pack.. as my Phlebotomist already had her own in me she obviously didn't use it but yes I think there was one.
     
  9. DCUKMod

    DCUKMod I reversed my Type 2 · Master
    Staff Member Administrator

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    Thaanks @Bluetit1802 , @bulkbiker and @Salvia - if it's all the, I'll reconsider doing it.

    Salvia, like you I have really stand out veins. If I straighten my arms and clench my fists they stand out, almost shouting, "Pick me. Pick me!"
     
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  10. Bluetit1802

    Bluetit1802 Type 2 (in remission!) · Guru

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    I have just checked the unused contents of my package. Definitely a long sharp needle in there, plus in the instructions for the blood drawer person it shows this type of needle in the diagrams. So all present and correct.
     
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  11. DavidGrahamJones

    DavidGrahamJones Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    My insulin production is in the normal range but from what I have read that insulin could be produced by a small number of beta cells. There was some research that found that as much as 80% of type IIs have decreased beta cell mass, despite the insulin production being in the normal range. It could change "cured" to "in remission".
     
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  12. DCUKMod

    DCUKMod I reversed my Type 2 · Master
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    Thank you for that.
     
  13. Neil Sing

    Neil Sing Type 2 · Newbie

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    The HOMA-IR test measures insulin resistance and is a combination of insulin fasting and glucose entered into a model to measure insulin resistance. It’s value is that it can pick up insulin resistance years before high glucose results occur. For those of us with any form of diabetes already identified it is thus too late. However it may be a better measure of one’s progress in overcoming Td2 than hbA1c. I am going to request such a test at my new doctor next visit even if I have pay for it myself. The new Dr came about when my existing one told me that it was too risky to lower my hbA1c below 39.
     
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  14. chrisf-1

    chrisf-1 Type 1 · Member

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    When I last saw my consultant he told me I should not bother fasting because of the risk of a hypo and never knowing how long I would have to wait he also said it does not affect the result of an HBA1C
     
  15. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    The fasting insulin test is nothing to do with an HbA1c. For Type 2's it gives an opportunity to check out the level of insulin production an to calibrate the level of insulin resistance. For Type 1's its not really relevant unless you are honeymooning when I guess it may give a snapshot of your endogenous insulin production. Type 2 is usually these days called a condition of hyperinsulinemia so the fact that the level of insulin being produced is rarely if ever measured by the NHS seems crazy to me. Also high insulin levels predicts Type 2 by a number of years so it may be a great way to test people how are on the path but haven't reached that diagnosis. Which makes it doubly crazy that no GP seems to ever look at it.
     
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  16. lindisfel

    lindisfel · Well-Known Member

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    Just guessing blue tit but it was probably causing too much in the way of referrals to hospital!
    Derek
     
  17. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    Update on this.. received an e-mail today from Lab tests online who the NHS website link to when you query available blood tests..
    Interestingly they say

    " I’m afraid we don’t provide an analytical service, nor do we oversee tests provided by NHS laboratories. Lab Tests Online-UK is an educational website and we provide information on the use of these tests."

    So no idea why the NHS link to their site..

    They went on to say

    "With regards to the fasted insulin one of our consultants has responded as follows: ‘As we detail on the website,https://www.labtestsonline.org.uk/conditions/diabetes

    Type 2 diabetics do make their own insulin but it is either not in a sufficient amount to meet the individual needs of their body or they have become resistant to its effects. For this reason the presence or amount of insulin in the blood is not proven as being useful in the diagnosis or monitoring of the disease and is therefore not routinely measured.’"

    So they seem to say that either we aren't making enough or we are making too much - the distinction would seem to me to be quite important.. i.e. if we aren't making enough then exogenous insulin would be a solution but if we are making too much them giving us more is pretty pointless. However because they can't be bothered to measure it what to me looks like a useful measure is never tested for. Sometimes it beggars belief...
     
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    #57 bulkbiker, May 25, 2018 at 4:38 PM
    Last edited: May 25, 2018
  18. Daibell

    Daibell LADA · Master

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    Yes, but did he tell you that if your blood test form includes full lipids tests then you should do a fasting test for lipids results to be reliable. I always do a fasting test if the form includes lipids. I think most of us know that we shouldn't fast for too long unless our Basal is balanced.
     
  19. lindisfel

    lindisfel · Well-Known Member

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    Looks like you are up against the system and crass ignorance.

    Perhaps you now feel a little like poor old, John Yudkin, when he was fixed up good and proper by what some think was a scientific veloceraptor, Ancel Keys! :);)

     
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  20. Salvia

    Salvia Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    sounds a bit like their excuse for rejecting any consideration of LCHF's "usefulness" in helping with bg control



    edit: my bold
     
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