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Fat Fasting for insulin sensitivity?

Discussion in 'Fasting' started by Roggg, Feb 18, 2020.

  1. Roggg

    Roggg · Well-Known Member

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    Hey all,

    I was thinking today that if the primary goal of one's IF program is insulin sensitivity, and since fat consumption doesn't really move the needle when it comes to insulin levels, is a "true" fast really necessary, or would consuming pure fats be completely consistent with IF for reversing T2?

    Now I get that weight loss would be reduced, depending on how many calories are being consumed. And for me, I want to lose at least another 5 kg, but don't really want to lose much more than that, although I could change my mind. So for that reason, (and because I am an over-thinker), I have started thinking about weight maintenance on IF for insulin sensitivity.

    So, anyone been down this road? Is there something I'm missing? Thanks.
     
  2. Lilylala

    Lilylala · Well-Known Member

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    Hi I'm now on my 2 nd week on a 24 hr fasting omad and have found very much so insulin sensitivity.I was injecting 40 units of humalin m3 am and pm meals.I have found after a few days in reducing slowly each day a little so my bs reading on pre meal was 4mmol i am now down to 25 units am and pm and still reducing .I am eating at 7 pm a regular meal meat/fish/ with salad, potatoes and have lost 10 lb so far and counting.
     
  3. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    What kind of pure fats were you thinking of? Some may have unfortunately digestive consequences..

    I've seen people do "fasts" with eggs and butter and cheese that were fairly fatty so that may well work but pure fat might be a bit hard to manage?
     
  4. DJC3

    DJC3 Type 2 · Expert

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    I sometimes have a spoonful of butter if I’m hungry ( can’t believe I just wrote that really!)
     
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  5. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    You're way just too posh, I usually just cut off a slice and eat it with my fingers!
     
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  6. Jim Lahey

    Jim Lahey I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Personally I think a more ancestrally appropriate strategy is just to only eat when hungry. If you're eating a species-appropriate diet then appetite should be all that's needed. Sometimes this may result in long fasts, sometimes it may not.

    Appetite is king of the hill. When hungry, eat protein and fat until not hungry. Repeat.
     
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  7. Roggg

    Roggg · Well-Known Member

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    @bulkbiker By pure fats I was thinking of butter or olive oil, but the question was kind of hypothetical. I can see how drinking a cup of evoo might not do your gut any favours, but maybe a bite of butter might make a fast more comfortable, and if I understand the science, wouldn't interfere with metabolic healing at all.

    @Jim Lahey yeah that would be a good end goal. But probably need to take more aggressive steps getting there.
     
  8. DCUKMod

    DCUKMod I reversed my Type 2 · Master
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    @Roggg - you could give it whirl and see how you get along.

    I am one of those for whom too much dietary fat has unwanted impacts. Put briefly; if I overdo the fats - whether oils, butter, nuts or whatever, my relationship with the small room gets a whole lot closer, and it's quite unpleasant.

    If that happens, I just dial back on fats until it stops. Although I have a decent handle on it now.

    I did find, however that eating a lot of fat increased my caloric need, quite markedly. As someone at the low end of the BMI scales, weight loss isn't for me. In fact at the moment, I'm having to get my head around trying to gain a couple of kilos lost along the way, adjusting to an overseas diet again. It'll be fine.
     
  9. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    I would add the butter to some "bone broth" aka stock as a drink (and have done on extended fasts) seems to work quite well.
     
  10. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Moderator
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    I saw a TV weight loss programme years ago (sorry, it must have been 15 years ago, so don't have any references to offer).

    In it, there were 2 groups. The first group fasted for 5 days. Water only. The second group drank water and ate a pack of cream cheese each day as their only food.

    The second group lost significantly more weight over those 5 days.

    Now, obviously, the most important thing to draw from this is that my memory is probably faulty and I haven't remembered most of the relevant details! ;) but it looks to me like cream cheese would make a pretty good 'fat fast' food choice, and that I would love to see that study re-run using fasting insulin and fasting blood glucose tests every day, to see what was happening to insulin resistance as the days went by.
     
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  11. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    Or you could try an egg and butter "fast" I was going to do that for alternate days in Feb but life got in the way.. maybe March madness..
     
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  12. DCUKMod

    DCUKMod I reversed my Type 2 · Master
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    A while ago, there was a period where a few folks did fat fasting, although from memory, it was just a few days. If you have a search, using the site functionality, hopefully something would come up, @Roggg

    God luck if you decide to give it a go.
     
  13. Roggg

    Roggg · Well-Known Member

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    Some great feedback folks...thanks a lot. I like the idea of adding fat to broth on fast days. I'm definitely going to try that.
     
  14. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    If you want to try some really high fat food you could try these..

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00CL8AGJE/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    kind of unsweetened milky bar the macros look like this

    Screenshot 2020-02-20 at 22.50.29.png

    I'm guessing only beef fat would be "better" not sure I could eat 100g at least not in one sitting 30g is the most I've tried so far.
     
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  15. Resurgam

    Resurgam Type 2 (in remission!) · Expert

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    If you are very resistant to ketosis, Dr Atkinson described how to do a fat fast for a few days only - he considered it dangerous to do it for a prolonged period.
    It is described in two forms, one more severe than the other in his New Diet Revolution, back in the 2003 edition.
     
  16. Roggg

    Roggg · Well-Known Member

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    @bulkbiker cool! I doubt I can get that brand on this side of the pond, but I can see cocoa butter being a useful snack and/or ingredient. I'm finding it slightly challenging getting my fat/protein ratio where I need it to be. I'm used to protein being the centre of the meal, and even the fatter meats I eat still don't get me to the ratios I am targeting. I'd like to be 70/20/10 percent calories from fat, protein, carb. I think on a good day I'm 65/25/10, but an average day is probably closer to 55/35/10.

    @Resurgam Thanks for the tip...if I need it I will look it up. Although I'm not (nor ever have been) attempting ketogenic. Maybe I should be, and I know the macros I am targeting should make it more or less inevitable. I have no reason to believe I might be Keto resistant at this time.
     
  17. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    If you don't mind going almost zero carb then rib eye steak is about 74% fat to 26% protein by cals..

    Screenshot 2020-02-21 at 14.12.34.png
     
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  18. Roggg

    Roggg · Well-Known Member

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    Mmmm..ribeye. Believe me, if I could afford ribeye everyday this would be a heck of a lot simpler.

    I never saw the point of ketosis as a goal. I always figured it was the low carb that was most important, and the ketones were a side effect. However, I'm getting a better education on how it all works, so I'm coming around. What I was missing was an understanding of the fact that the body doesn't use fat and sugar very well at the same time, so I'm finally getting it. A low-ish carb diet doesn't get your insulin low enough to adapt to fat as fuel, but doesn't give you enough carbs to be properly energized. Better to go Keto than to go half way and not get the best out of the process.
     
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