1. Get the Diabetes Forum App for your phone - available on iOS and Android.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Guest, we'd love to know what you think about the forum! Take the Diabetes Forum Survey 2021 »
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Diabetes Forum should not be used in an emergency and does not replace your healthcare professional relationship. Posts can be seen by the public.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Guest, stay home, stay safe, save the NHS. Stay up to date with information about keeping yourself and people around you safe here and GOV.UK: Coronavirus (COVID-19). Think you have symptoms? NHS 111 service is available here.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
Find support, ask questions and share your experiences. Join the community »

Food intake restriction study by Prof. Roy Taylor, et al.

Discussion in 'Newly Diagnosed' started by TerryinDorset, Nov 19, 2015.

  1. TerryinDorset

    TerryinDorset Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    55
    Likes Received:
    92
    Trophy Points:
    58
    I've saw the diab nurse this afternoon & she was over the moon. You're cured, she said.......My latest HbA1c is down from 75 in 10/15 to 41, & serum alanine aminotransferase (ALT) is down from 102 to 18 ;-) I forgot to ask about stopping metformin! I intend to loose another stone & she said I'll be off the register in 6 months........it's taken 4 months to go frm 75mmol to 41. Phew....
     
    • Winner Winner x 6
    #81 TerryinDorset, May 5, 2016 at 10:25 PM
    Last edited by a moderator: May 6, 2016
  2. JenniferW

    JenniferW Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    558
    Likes Received:
    1,026
    Trophy Points:
    158
    There was a bit of a talk about this at the last meeting of my local branch of Diabetes UK, as part of an update from a dietician. DiabetesUK is supporting a big study looking I think particularly at the long-term effects and results.

    My impression was that there's no doubt the diet works, but not everyone can actually manage to do it and live their normal life at the same time. And then with those who do succeed, and get very good results, it's only a small percentage who manage to sustain the change long-term. This wasn't being presented negatively, just as not something that works for everyone and they need to know more to make it more effective both short and long-term.
     
  3. TerryinDorset

    TerryinDorset Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    55
    Likes Received:
    92
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Hello,
    I'm very sure that having got rid of 37.5 lbs & reduced my HbA1c from 75 to 41 there isn't a hope in Hades of my chucking it all away, so having this documented & seeing others do the same, I can say the Newcastle Diet does works or my variant of it did. I varied my vegatables & ways of treating them to help make things not too boring. I bought Morrison's In Shape but had only two replacement meals a day. I did find it a chore having to drink so much liquid....3 ltrs is a lot & I think I managed 2 - 2.5 a day.

    As for long term change, well that's easy. I know what my downfall consisted of so I simply plan to avoid all that, with a few easy exceptions like a glass of wine or whisky 2 or 3 times a week, or not as the case may be! All the carbs are gone though I am going to start making my own bread again because I did miss it. A loaf usually lasted me 10 days so I can't see that being a problem now. I use stone-ground granary flour from Cann Mill at Shafstbury which is amazing stuff.

    You're right, it will not work for everyone but I do reccommend folks having a good try & sticking it out.
     
    • Winner Winner x 3
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. AndBreathe

    AndBreathe I reversed my Type 2 · Expert
    Retired Moderator

    Messages:
    9,871
    Likes Received:
    15,891
    Trophy Points:
    178
    Very well done @TerryinDorset . I think I would just add a couple of points about the ND if I may.

    The original Taylor paper gives the results of his initial programme in which 40% of trialists returned to non-diabetic stauses at the end of the diet, and after 3 months one further patient had achieved that mark, so a total of 43% success rate. So, whilst it worked for you, it sadly doesn't work for everyone.

    Don't get me wrong; that's not saying it shouldn't be done, just tempering the "It works" declaration we can see sometimes. But, it worked for you and I wholeheartedly celebrate that with you.

    Secondly, the longer research piece still has quite some time to go. I was at a DUK meeting a few months ago where I asked for an update on the research, which I received a while after. I'll ferret it out and post it at some stage (though I have a very busy day in prospect today).

    As I understand it, they key to the ongoing success is maintaining the physical condition, with the personal body fat threshold being critical to that. The frustrating point is nobody knows what their own tipping point it, or for that matter whether that tipping point changes over time. It is likely it will actually lower with age, as our bodies generally become less efficient.

    It's a complex one, but brilliant when it works.

    Oh, and Terry. What's your visceral fat number these days?

    Curiously I just did an updated composition this morning. I weight every day, but just do the full scan about once a month.
     
  5. muzza3

    muzza3 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,789
    Likes Received:
    4,648
    Trophy Points:
    198
    Hi Terry
    Sensational results and very similar to my journey this year. Having taken the same path I know how determined you must be and how excited you are about the outcome. Very well done and yes we must keep presenting the Newcastle diet as an option because of the amazing results it can achieve for some of us
    Congratulations
    Cheers
     
  6. TerryinDorset

    TerryinDorset Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    55
    Likes Received:
    92
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Hello both,

    I have an Omron BF 508 & use the regime you follow. The latest visceral fat number was 13, & was 16 when I started on 23/01. The book tells me it needs to be between 9 & 1.
    Body fat = 28% now down from 33%. BMI = 27, was 29 but I don't use BMI at all so am not sure why I record it!

    The diab nurse said because my serum alanine aminotransferase (ALT but I think was SGPT) was down from 102 to 18 I have no liver/pancreas fat present. I am now wondering what the implications of the VF 13 is. I hope my insulin is flowing normally now & will be told to stop taking Metformin.

    My Accu-Chek Active monitor fasting readings from 21/01 have varied between 4.4 & 6. Now, I know these monitors aren't totally accurate & I've used them as only a guide but it's been interesting recording them nontheless. Considering my diet I wasn't surprised at the lowish readings I obtained. I can't see that I need to swallow Metformin any longer, but I wait to be told!

    Having mentioned diet I thought I might ring the changes & try 3 Morrison In Shape meal drinks a day, as now but with the addition of a couple of bowls of porridge a day instead of veg........until the next 14lbs has departed my waistline.....assuming the new diet works that is!
     
    • Like Like x 2
  7. zand

    zand Type 2 · Master

    Messages:
    10,341
    Likes Received:
    16,264
    Trophy Points:
    298
    I would stick with the metformin if you can ( and if it doesn't adversely affect you)as it has other health benefits. It may help you lose that last bit of weight too, as it can help with any remaining insulin resistance. Other than that all I have to say is.....excellent results! Very very well done, I'm so pleased it worked for you. :)
     
  8. AndBreathe

    AndBreathe I reversed my Type 2 · Expert
    Retired Moderator

    Messages:
    9,871
    Likes Received:
    15,891
    Trophy Points:
    178
    To be honest, @TerryinDorset , if you are tolerating the Metformin well, I'd consider sticking with it until you have achieved your targets, as it is known to aid insulin resistance and weight loss (and this said by someone evangelically anti-meds!).

    Looking at your stats, you've made great progress but some of your levels are still at what could be considered the riskier end of things. Your BMI (for what it's worth) is still a little up on where you want to be and visceral fat along with that.

    When doing my own research into visceral fat I found it very hard to find anything quantifying the scales quoted in various places. About the only thing I found, talking in numbers ( as opposed to "less is better") suggested 1-12 is acceptable, and above that higher risk.

    I don't actually know where I started on that front as it was 4 months in before I weighed myself, post diagnosis (long story, I won't bore you with), never mind measured anything else, and I haven't recorded that VF starting point, but I think it was 5. I'm now at 3 and have been for a loooong time, although my body fat and muscle percentages have moved on.

    Your doing really well, but in your shoes, I might want to build myself a margin of "comfort" into my target, but we all set our risk dials to our own comfort zones.

    Really, really well done again.

    If I recall, you are an HCP, or retired HCP yourself? On that basis, have you had much peer or professional interest in your progress?
     
  9. TerryinDorset

    TerryinDorset Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    55
    Likes Received:
    92
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Thank you,
    Yes, Metformin is probably a good idea as I tolerate it well, but I work on the principle if I don't need then don't take it. I'm happy to use it as an aid to weight loss.

    As for insulin resistance, I've read about this & as I'm getting rid of my weight gain the only other symptoms I can see here (on this site) are Lethargy/Hunger/Difficulty concentrating (brain fog) & High blood pressure. I'm not lethargic & not often hungry. I eat my veg because it's part of the plan & I do need to eat healthy things.
    My official B/P 3 weeks ago was 140/70. I have the same Omron machine as the nurse & see readings around 120/70. The 40 must have been due to the surgery location!

    All my readings need to be lower, you're right so don't *****-foot! I'm sorry to say I can just pinch an inch, but there must be something deeper that says 13. I c/f these figures with those in handbook & am happy to go with less is more.

    Yes, I'm a retired SRN (those were the days!) & finished with a 30 bed rehab ward & 8 patient day hospital, & looking after elderly diabetics was part of my job. I never thought I'd ever join the ranks. The odd thing is it's all so different when it's YOU in the firing line!

    I assume all makes of monitor will differ with values....
    What weighing machine/monitor do you have AndBreathe?
     
    • Like Like x 2
  10. AndBreathe

    AndBreathe I reversed my Type 2 · Expert
    Retired Moderator

    Messages:
    9,871
    Likes Received:
    15,891
    Trophy Points:
    178

    You make such a critical point there, in saying it's different when it's ourselves. When I was diagnosed, and told not to test, I asked if that's what she would actually do. The deafening silence and lack of eye content told me all I needed to know.

    I have the Omron 511, so a sibling of your own machine. As I spend a lot of time overseas, I have one in UK, and one elsewhere. In comparing, I have found them to be very accurate between themselves. How they might compare against other makes or styles, who knows? For me, the most important thing in my selection process was having the hand grips, as well as the footpads for measuring, as I understand just measuring upper or lower body isn't quite to accurate.
     
  11. EdMac

    EdMac · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    76
    Likes Received:
    178
    Trophy Points:
    53
    Hi @TerryinDorset just wondering how you have found the consistency of these scales? Specifically the body fat measurements. I've looked at some of the reviews online and there seems to be some doubt about the consistency of measurements. Although there is also some doubt about people's ability to use the scales consistently which could explain that.
     
  12. TerryinDorset

    TerryinDorset Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    55
    Likes Received:
    92
    Trophy Points:
    58
    AndBreathe
    I saw the 508 reviewed in Which & as it got a thumbs up & a web search didn't find criticisms I bought it. The handles were the selling point & Omron has a good reputation.

    As for measurments, EdMac, I think they're accurate especially c/f with the digital scales I gave away. Both seem to give the same read out accuracy. I check test scales with something of a known weight, & only bought the 508 for the monitor facility. I think you are right to point out the ability of the user is the most important input. It's important too, to Read The Handbook First!!
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  13. AndBreathe

    AndBreathe I reversed my Type 2 · Expert
    Retired Moderator

    Messages:
    9,871
    Likes Received:
    15,891
    Trophy Points:
    178
    To add my 2p worth, @EdMac , I also did a bit of comparing of both of my sets of 511s. I did a full scan/reading (you can also do just a weigh in) on the morning of leaving the UK, then followed up doing the same, next morning where I have my other set. Leaving aside the daily variations we all see, I found them to be a great match.

    Let's face it, in the reducing phase, post diagnosis, we're interested in the decreasing trends, then when maintaining, the maintenance trend - a bit like our bloods. Unless deeply into the reducing mode, it's unimportant if the scale reads a kilo either way. I love my Omrons, and even my always been slim, scale-dodging, OH is interested to keep an eye on things these days.

    Personally, I think they've been a good buy.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  14. TerryinDorset

    TerryinDorset Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    55
    Likes Received:
    92
    Trophy Points:
    58
    My news is from the diabteic nurse I saw yesterday......my 6 mnth Hb1Ca is 36 mmol/ mol & she said "You've cured yourself"! & to tail off the Metformin :cat:

    It has been a jaunt at times but I am singel-minded when put to a task thank goodness.

    I wish all the other Newcastle dieters best wishes & hope you can stick at it too ;)
     
    • Winner Winner x 5
  15. Hiitsme

    Hiitsme Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,377
    Likes Received:
    13,806
    Trophy Points:
    198
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. Freema

    Freema Type 2 · Expert

    Messages:
    7,355
    Likes Received:
    17,507
    Trophy Points:
    178
    Congratulation is too small a word

    is there not fat at all in the Newcastle diet ? hope to do it soon
     
  17. AndBreathe

    AndBreathe I reversed my Type 2 · Expert
    Retired Moderator

    Messages:
    9,871
    Likes Received:
    15,891
    Trophy Points:
    178
  18. Salvia

    Salvia Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    812
    Likes Received:
    726
    Trophy Points:
    133
    I haven't followed the Newcastle diet but have been interested to follow your progress, on and off, I'm really pleased for you that your efforts have been so successful. It's quite an achievement and an inspiration for others - all credit to you.
     
  19. TerryinDorset

    TerryinDorset Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    55
    Likes Received:
    92
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Hello. Basically, the Newcastle diet is 3 (I had 2) replacement drinks a day, with non-starch veg meals. I used Morrisons own replacement meals, made up with two scoops powder in 2/3 rds water & the rest milk to 750 mls. The recommendation is 2 ltrs water as well. Included in the daily regime was determination to stick to the regime & knowing I'd feel hungry at some time!
    You'll see - no fat but after 4 months or so I included some low carb/calorie, high fat additions. I really do recommend the diet.

    My web search for Newcastle Diet got me to Prof. Taylor's secretary who emailed me the diet as a pdf. I added to the suggestions it contained.
    Cheers for now, Terry.
     
  20. Pipp

    Pipp Type 2 · Expert
    Retired Moderator

    Messages:
    8,491
    Likes Received:
    14,442
    Trophy Points:
    198
    Very pleased for you, @TerryinDorset . I understand the effort involved.

    You are now at the point I was 5 years ago. Only seen a slight increase in HbA1c for the first time 3 months ago.

    Hope you won't think I am taking anything away from your achievement, but I am minded to mention that the work is not over. Please remain vigilant and test BG and weight regularly to make any necessary adjustments to maintain your reversed status.
    Best wishes and well done.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  • Meet the Community

    Find support, connect with others, ask questions and share your experiences with people with diabetes, their carers and family.

    Did you know: 7 out of 10 people improve their understanding of diabetes within 6 months of being a Diabetes Forum member. Get the Diabetes Forum App and stay connected on iOS and Android

    Grab the app!
  • Tweet with us

  • Like us on Facebook